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Old 2004-03-18, 17:25   Link #341
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairydolphin
Well the point still stands, Dosu tried to get Lee with the sound blaster and Lee pulled out the big as$ root to protect himself cause Lee knew Dosu didn't have to touch him to hurt him. Right after that, Lee increases his speed, and kicks Dosu up in the air before he knows it. Lotus is a move that can kill people and it would have killed Dosu.
Maybe.

We've never seen Lee land it and kill someone. We've never seen Lee land it and take an opponent out of a fight with it either. It's supposed to kill people...we've just never seen it.

In any case, during a prelim match, Lee'd have no big root to pull up. I'm not saying Dosu beats him hands down...just that it isn't unlikely that he could beat Lee before Lee could do anything about it.
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Old 2004-03-18, 18:20   Link #342
JubeiYamazaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
I think this is why Rock Lee fans gets a bad rep. Rock would not have beaten everyone else at the tourney. He lost to Dosu in the Forest of Death...he would have lost to Dosu again in the prelims. Shino would have easily beaten Rock. You can't run from a million bugs in a closed room. Hell...he went to kick Temari after she pimped Tenten, and what happened? She BLOCKED it. Lee's fast with the weights on...but it's not until he takes them off that the rest of the upper half of the genin in the tourney have problems with him.
1. I am a Rock lee fan I love d00d, he's too bomb, but I'm not a Rock Lee fanboy as I see everything from a writers prespective.

Dosu would have lost to Rock Lee:
1. Rock Lee already knows his powers and I would think he would be smart enough to be able to avoid it, (earplugs or whatever he thought was right.)
2. He previously kicked his ass prior.
3. Even if Dosu thinks up a plan, anything would of been fubarred since Lee's speed is so quick Dosu would to have to think more then 70% of the match ahead in moves, and as we all see how quickly Gaara dispatches him, Dosu doesn't seem that smart. (Although he looked just as bad ass too.)

Shino would lose to Rock Lee:
When you're movement is faster then a million bugs going the 1/3 your speed, yes, yes you can, he'd probably try to go through em since maybe he was so fast, they couldn't stick on? Either way lets say Shino does lay a BS bug on Rock Lee that summons all the other bugs to leech of his chakra or soul whichever, as soon as he opens the Gates, (I'm assuming here) the Super Saiyajin like sequence would of destroyed all the bugs on him, and probably would of beaten Shino even if he tried to bug clone.

Temari vs. Rock Lee:
He'd win by default since Temari is a girl, and its a well-known fact all girls on Naruto (execpt the one coming up) = suck. It was bullshit that she won against Shikimaru to begin with, which was to make him look like a badass which they did.

Quote:
Was Lee thinking about taking off the weights when he was getting pimped by Gaara's sand? No. Then Guy told him to take them off, and Lee resisted...twice before actually taking them off. The thought of taking off the weights would have never crossed his mind.
Okay then. Gai would of told him everyother match to take off his weights, if its prelims.

Quote:
Plus, you can't compare Sasuke's Sharingan and Neji's Byakugan. Neji's been using them for most of his training...Sasuke...had used them ONCE before the fight with Lee. On top of that, Neji regularly uses Lee as a punching bag, so those two fights have no comparison that favors Lee winning.
I never "compared" it in that fashion but in their one unique ability to see things before they come, physics are different of course, but the conecpt is the same. The only reason Neji sees Lee as a punching bag is because Neji's never fought Lee at the power he was at in the Prelims, as this one scene from another anime clearly states (name it and you get browine points )

*after hours of trying to start a fire with two rocks, he pulls out a matchbook*

Kid: Eh? If you had that begin with why didn't you use it first?

Man: Sometimes its good to save the best for last.

Quote:
Also, Neji has two different types of chakra blockage attacks. The targeted strikes to close the chakra holes close off chakra gathering from the outside. The 64 Hands of Hakke shuts it down internally.
As I said wouldn't his overflow of chakra break it? Sorta like when a dam overflows or just breaks from the intense preasure?

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And he has the Kaiten.
Totally forgot about that.
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Old 2004-03-18, 18:49   Link #343
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
1. I am a Rock lee fan I love d00d, he's too bomb, but I'm not a Rock Lee fanboy as I see everything from a writers prespective.

Dosu would have lost to Rock Lee:
1. Rock Lee already knows his powers and I would think he would be smart enough to be able to avoid it, (earplugs or whatever he thought was right.)
2. He previously kicked his ass prior.
3. Even if Dosu thinks up a plan, anything would of been fubarred since Lee's speed is so quick Dosu would to have to think more then 70% of the match ahead in moves, and as we all see how quickly Gaara dispatches him, Dosu doesn't seem that smart. (Although he looked just as bad ass too.)
Maybe...

Maybe not. Gaara takes him out because Dosu thinks he catches him asleep. When his surprise attack isn't such a surprise, it's Gaara who holds all the advantages.

Lee'd probably win...but, you have to take into account the fact that Dosu has already screwed up his ear, and he hasn't really healed from it, Lee is really vulnerable to any future sound attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
Shino would lose to Rock Lee:
When you're movement is faster then a million bugs going the 1/3 your speed, yes, yes you can, he'd probably try to go through em since maybe he was so fast, they couldn't stick on? Either way lets say Shino does lay a BS bug on Rock Lee that summons all the other bugs to leech of his chakra or soul whichever, as soon as he opens the Gates, (I'm assuming here) the Super Saiyajin like sequence would of destroyed all the bugs on him, and probably would of beaten Shino even if he tried to bug clone.
Lee can't open the gates unless he's done the Initial Lotus first. After he does that he's stunned for a good 2-3 seconds. All Shino would have to do is get Lee to Lotus a Bug Clone (Lee would never know the difference.) and then Lee's overcome by bugs. He'd never get the chance to open the second gate.

Even without this...Shino could just flood the arena with insects...since they use and eat chakra, they'd just wait for Lee to move into them, stick and then drain.

Does Shino win outright? No. Neither does Lee. It can go either way easily. But bear in mind that Lee has no idea what Shino's bugs do. He'd probably just ignore them and head after Shino.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
Temari vs. Rock Lee:
He'd win by default since Temari is a girl, and its a well-known fact all girls on Naruto (execpt the one coming up) = suck. It was bullshit that she won against Shikimaru to begin with, which was to make him look like a badass which they did.
In all likelihood, Lee does beat down Temari...he's already pissed at her. I already said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
Okay then. Gai would of told him everyother match to take off his weights, if its prelims.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
As I said wouldn't his overflow of chakra break it? Sorta like when a dam overflows or just breaks from the intense preasure?
No. The 64 Hands of Hakke internally disrupts the flow of chakra. The Gates, as it was explained, regulate the flow of chakra traveling through the body. The Gates
are ALREADY dams.

If you're likening to the chakra flow to a river, what Neji's attack would do is remove the riverbed. It wouldn't travel one path anymore it'd just flow all over...none of it being useable in any fashion.

Even if Lee could open the gates without using any chakra, all it would do at that point is allow the chakra pathways to support a flow of say 10 times the amount they normally let through...but none of it is flowing anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
Totally forgot about that.
Kind of important, as the Kaiten is the attack that most people are pointing to as the tide turner in this fight. Any attack on the Kaiten is returned back to the user...the harder you hit it, the harder you get hit back. People think a 5-Gate enhanced Lee would just be hit back with his own strength.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:13   Link #344
realdeal
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justsomerandomguy, shino's bug clones were effective cos teh fight was in the forest, where the real shino has plenty of hiding space. If the fight was in a clear arena like the prelims the bug clones wont fool anyone since real shino cant hide.

Forest/or other types of terrain where shino can hide = advantage to shino.
Clear Stadium match = adv to Lee.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:18   Link #345
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Originally Posted by realdeal
justsomerandomguy, shino's bug clones were effective cos teh fight was in the forest, where the real shino has plenty of hiding space. If the fight was in a clear arena like the prelims the bug clones wont fool anyone since real shino cant hide.

Forest/or other types of terrain where shino can hide = advantage to shino.
Clear Stadium match = adv to Lee.
If that were the case, then Kakashi wouldn't be able to henge into a log in broad daylight against the Demon Bros., neither would Asuma when he fights the 9 sounds, Naruto wouldn't be able to transform the kid when Iruka is giving him the Chuunin prelim test, etc.

Most relevantly...Lee falls for a transformation himself during his fight in the prelims. Gaara transforms while he's kicking him into position for the Initial Lotus. It's obvious that he'd fall for it again.

It's all based on the target's ability to see through the transformation...Lee's ability to do so...Zero.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:28   Link #346
Sethi
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Actually i think Taijutsu is the worse thing to use against Shino.
The bugs don't need to go to Lee since Lee has to go to Shino, I mean the guy has all that bugs in him, bugs that feed on chakra and you would want to touch him?? I think the outcome of this fight is very difficult to predict.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:36   Link #347
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethi
Actually i think Taijutsu is the worse thing to use against Shino.
The bugs don't need to go to Lee since Lee has to go to Shino, I mean the guy has all that bugs in him, bugs that feed on chakra and you would want to touch him?? I think the outcome of this fight is very difficult to predict.

Right on, I think they'd drain Lee out even before he'd use ultimate lotus. Shino isn't the best oponent for a close combat.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:38   Link #348
Stickels
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What would happen with Neji VS Shino?

would the kaiten keep the bugs off? and wouldn't that mean he would have to maintain the kaiten all the time to hold bugs away, I can't imagine that would be easy. And blocking Shino's chakra paths wouldn't do much because he could still get the bugs to attack.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:41   Link #349
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Originally Posted by Stickels
What would happen with Neji VS Shino?

would the kaiten keep the bugs off? and wouldn't that mean he would have to maintain the kaiten all the time to hold bugs away, I can't imagine that would be easy. And blocking Shino's chakra paths wouldn't do much because he could still get the bugs to attack.
That would be a terribly bad matchup for Neji.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:46   Link #350
Lexander
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Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
That would be a terribly bad matchup for Neji.
Hmmm maybe not, the kaiten would take care of it i think.

Spoiler:


Also Neji has seen that Shino uses bugs to fight already. He would be somewhat ready.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:46   Link #351
Stickels
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it really seems like Sasuke is the only one particularly well equiped to take on Shino, unless someone else has a fire jutsu they havn't used as of yet, and even Sasuke would have problems because there are so damn many bugs and Shino is a good stratigist.

regular naruto would lose to him, kyuubified naruto can probably recharge his energy faster than the bugs can take it, or even overfill them untill they just have to either stop or die.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:51   Link #352
Stickels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Hmmm maybe not, the kaiten would take care of it i think.

Spoiler:


Also Neji has seen that Shino uses bugs to fight already. He would be somewhat ready.

I don't know who that is because I havn't read the manga, but does he use bugs the same way that Shino does, with the massive swarms and everything, or is it just like a couple of giant bugs he summons (I seem to remember someone mentioning this is another thread) cause it would be completely different situations

it seems to me that the problem with using the kaiten against Shino's bugs would be that it would have to be consistantly kept up due to the swarms of bugs, and I can't imagine that the kiaten is a chakra-easy move to maintain, I imagine it would be even harder to maintain than the armor of sand because it is a wall of pure chakra.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:53   Link #353
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Originally Posted by Lexander
Hmmm maybe not, the kaiten would take care of it i think.

Spoiler:


Also Neji has seen that Shino uses bugs to fight already. He would be somewhat ready.
Well, Neji can look at him with Byakugan and tell that.

And while it did do what you spoiler tagged, he'd only be able to do that for so long. All depends on how many bugs Shino's willing to sacrifice.
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Old 2004-03-18, 19:59   Link #354
Sethi
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Neji would be harder to get than Lee that's for sure since Byakukan can see through Shino and Neji also has almost 360 vision so any swarm of bugs that where on aproach Neji could put them all to fly with Kaiten or he could keep away from the bugs until good chances of hitting Shino appeared, also Neji needs fewer attacks to put an enemy down than Lee not to mention one attack puts them down for sure Hakke, sure Lee as the lotus but i dont think you would want to hug a guy with bugs that feed on chakra.
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Old 2004-03-18, 20:10   Link #355
Stickels
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Originally Posted by Sethi
Neji would be harder to get than Lee that's for sure since Byakukan can see through Shino and Neji also has almost 360 vision so any swarm of bugs that where on aproach Neji could put them all to fly with Kaiten or he could keep away from the bugs until good chances of hitting Shino appeared, also Neji needs fewer attacks to put an enemy down than Lee not to mention one attack puts them down for sure Hakke, sure Lee as the lotus but i dont think you would want to hug a guy with bugs that feed on chakra.

not to mention hakke doesn't kill, or even knock the opponent out, and Shino attacks with bugs anyways, so it would be much less effective against him than against other people.

getting hit by it might even just be a way for Shino to get his opening the bugs need to get through neji's defences to hit him.
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Old 2004-03-18, 20:34   Link #356
Sethi
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Originally Posted by Stickels
not to mention hakke doesn't kill, or even knock the opponent out, and Shino attacks with bugs anyways, so it would be much less effective against him than against other people.

getting hit by it might even just be a way for Shino to get his opening the bugs need to get through neji's defences to hit him.
Shino attacks with bugs yes, but if he loses all the chakra in his body he wouldn't be able to move so the match would end right away also the Hakke is given at tremendous speed and i can only imagine what the pain of being hit 64 times in 64 opening points must be, he wouldn't be able to do anything while he was being attacked much less in the end of the attack.
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Old 2004-03-18, 20:39   Link #357
Stickels
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Originally Posted by Sethi
Shino attacks with bugs yes, but if he loses all the chakra in his body he wouldn't be able to move so the match would end right away also the Hakke is given at tremendous speed and i can only imagine what the pain of being hit 64 times in 64 opening points must be, he wouldn't be able to do anything while he was being attacked much less in the end of the attack.

who's to say he wouldn't instruct the bugs to attack when the Hakke was used before he was ever attacked? The guy is a strategist, and he's seen the move before.
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Old 2004-03-18, 20:47   Link #358
Sethi
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Originally Posted by Stickels
who's to say he wouldn't instruct the bugs to attack when the Hakke was used before he was ever attacked? The guy is a strategist, and he's seen the move before.
Yes but since Neji as the Byakukan and he also isn't any fool at all, he would notice if the bugs were in a position to get him if he performed the Hakke, that's why i said he would wait for a chance to get him with hakke and until then attack with Jyuuken that give lot's of damage as well, keep the bugs away with Byakukan and Kaiten and when chance comes Hakke Shino to oblivion.
I do agree Shino would be difficult to win but in the end i think Neji would prevail.
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Old 2004-03-18, 21:09   Link #359
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That is rather a difficult question to answer, seeing that they have different traits and strengths as those two do..

Even though Neji has those wicked all seeing eyes (can't remember the name for it and too lazy to check) I believe that Lee would have beaten him, as he is very powerful. And he also has incredible speed so I believe that whilst it is very difficult to say who would win, this is my guess.....
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Old 2004-03-18, 21:09   Link #360
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Originally Posted by GreyArea
Well, my only real problem with Vs threads (besides the fact they are against the rules, but thats another thing entirely) is that there usually isnt much of a discussion.

You usually get two groups standing on either side of the fence, throwing there own version of how the fight would go down across at each other.

No progression, and no discussion. Here's the problem:

Lets say they fought, in the preliminaries. At the start of the fight, Im pretty sure Neji would be able to keep up with Rocks speed, and slyly close some tenketsu while Lee was testing him.

Lee has to take his weights off cos he isnt getting anywhere, so now Neji has trouble keeping up with Lee. So he becomes more offensive and tries to land a few gentle fist blows.

Now.... would he be able to hit Lee? At all? Dunno. Would be be able to get him with the 64 Hands (he doesnt know Kaiten at this point, but I'd guess he does know the 64 hands of Hakke)? Would Lee do the Lotus before Neji closed all his tenketsu?

Would Neji underestimate Rock Lee (considering that he knows Lee a lot better than he knows Naruto)?

What else is there to say?
I just read this on the first page and would like to point out all of its flaws (just in case nobody already did). First of all, Rock Lee would not need to test Neji. He's seen all neji can do/would do to him. Neji underestimated him and wouldn't have used his full potential on Lee anyhow. Second, it wouldn't matter if Neji -did- close off all of Lee's tenketsus because he -doesn't- use his chakra at all. He doesn't need it. Besides that, opening the gates would provide more than enough chakra to open all his tenketsus up again. Of course, there's a chance Lee might explode if that were to happen ... hmm
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