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Old 2004-01-12, 19:21   Link #61
Izlude
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lee wins.

neji doesnt have the reaction time imo.
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Old 2004-02-23, 01:52   Link #62
vega98767
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For some reason i don't know how to quote so ill just answer to someone who said Lee was an idiot for using his "trump card' move against Garaa. Garaa was out to kill. He always is. Im pretty sure Gai knew this so he let lee take off the weights and use his gates. Anyone else im sure Lee would have kept them on but like i said before Garaa is a killing machine and he lives to kill. If lee would not have taken off the weights or opened the gates he would be dead and all us Rock Lee fans would miss him. So don't call Lee an idiot when anyone would have done what they could in order to stay alive against Garaa.
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Old 2004-02-23, 02:46   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega98767
For some reason i don't know how to quote ...
there is a button on the bottom right of a given msg that says "reply" and if you hover over it with your mouse, it should say "reply with quote"... so just click that next time and it should auto quote the msg you want....
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Old 2004-02-23, 02:50   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Prince of Chronics
there is a button on the bottom right of a given msg that says "reply" and if you hover over it with your mouse, it should say "reply with quote"... so just click that next time and it should auto quote the msg you want....
Thank you good sir
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Old 2004-02-23, 11:42   Link #65
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Well Sasuke used sharingan on Lee..Lee messed him up without breaking a sweat, with his weights on too. I believe Byakugan has simmilar tracking skill as the sharingan, maybe slightly better.

Nowhere in the anime has neji proved his speed to be amazing yet or more superior to Lee even with his weights on. BTW plz dont compare a neji in a manga 100 chapters above since we last saw Lee fight. It is completely unfair and not much point in a match up as the answer is pretty damm obvious.

Finally sticking to the premilimaries..if Lee could take off the weights and going by the anime that neji did not have kaiten, Lee wouldnt need to use 5 gates as the speed itself would be enough to send neji in the air and execute the omote renge.

As for 5 gates vs Naruto kyubi vs neji, I dont think he was that kyubi powered since his shape wasnt forming yet. He did have alot of power though from the looks of it, it was not as fast as the 5gates. More like raw power rather than super speed.
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Old 2004-02-23, 12:54   Link #66
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Originally Posted by realdeal
Nowhere in the anime has neji proved his speed to be amazing yet or more superior to Lee even with his weights on. BTW plz dont compare a neji in a manga 100 chapters above since we last saw Lee fight. It is completely unfair and not much point in a match up as the answer is pretty damm obvious.
How about when he beat the living crap out of Lee in front of Tenten, and Tenten tells him that he should stop challenging Neji because he'll never win...then Lee goes and cries because he says that he keeps getting stronger and challenging Neji, and Neji stomps him into the ground every freaking time. If I remeber the anime sequence right, Lee lands maybe 2 hits before Neji puts him on his back for the umpteenth time.

For him to beat Neji, he'd have to do something he wouldn't normally do in the course of a fight. Guy might give him the go-ahead to take off the weights, but I doubt if he'd let him break out anything past Omote Renge...you don't use your killing techniques on allies.

Gates and all opened, I think Lee takes Neji. If you compare the two at Max Power, I think Lee would beat Neji. If you take the two at inital power, Lee loses. (This isn't debateable. Neji pounded him.) So, the circumstances of the fight, and the knowledge of the others' full abilities will determine the outcome.
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Old 2004-02-23, 14:39   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
How about when he beat the living crap out of Lee in front of Tenten, and Tenten tells him that he should stop challenging Neji because he'll never win...then Lee goes and cries because he says that he keeps getting stronger and challenging Neji, and Neji stomps him into the ground every freaking time. If I remeber the anime sequence right, Lee lands maybe 2 hits before Neji puts him on his back for the umpteenth time.

For him to beat Neji, he'd have to do something he wouldn't normally do in the course of a fight. Guy might give him the go-ahead to take off the weights, but I doubt if he'd let him break out anything past Omote Renge...you don't use your killing techniques on allies.

Gates and all opened, I think Lee takes Neji. If you compare the two at Max Power, I think Lee would beat Neji. If you take the two at inital power, Lee loses. (This isn't debateable. Neji pounded him.) So, the circumstances of the fight, and the knowledge of the others' full abilities will determine the outcome.
so what you are saying is: rock can beat the shit out of neji, he just wont cuz neji is an ally.

However, neji may be able to defend with kaiten... it just depends on whether he can see that lee is coming and do the move at the same time... or be able to carry the kaiten till rock lee's stamina runs out.
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Old 2004-02-23, 14:49   Link #68
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Humm..

Kaiten is a technique that uses the enemy's force against itself. The stronger you attack, the harder you'll get thrown back.

Considering Neji can expend his chakra to detect things coming at him... say a very fast arrow so I figure Neji would be able to detect Lee to a certain degree and if he does Kaiten when Rock comes with the insane speed of the Ura Renge(which he can't hold for long), Lee's really screwed. Also, If Neji is grabbed ala "Primary Lotus" he could get out of the bandages using his chakra as well.

Sooooo in my opinion it depends on if Neji underestimates Lee too much(like he did with Naruto) then he might lose... but he was a pretty serious I think he could take Rock down. Besides, no one can doubt that Neji's hand movements are just as fast or fast as Rock's as if he wasn't fast and precise, he wouldn't be able to do 64 hands of Hakke.

Go Neji =P.

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Old 2004-02-23, 14:49   Link #69
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thing is hobo were talking prelims neji didnt have kaiten yet. IMO lee could have taken neji after the removal of his weights actualy neji says it himself when watching lee, he says something like "he has that amount of power, its greater then mine" and gai says "that was lees trump card to beat neji" both implying that lee could have taken neji

BTW how did a vs thread (they're against the rules) get to be four pages long???
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Old 2004-02-23, 22:12   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slade
just wanted to say that I personally don't believe that neji "owned" that spider guy...
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Old 2004-02-23, 22:14   Link #71
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I didn't read all of the posts, and I'm not going to weigh in on the question, but I'd just like to remind people who claim their 'facts' out of somthing a character said that one of the simplest and most common devices used in anime to increase excitement is to flat-out go against somthing stated before:

"Nobody can touch Gaara"
"Neji is the strongest Gennin"
"Naruto is a good-for-nothing punk"

etc. etc. etc.

sometimes the thing to EXPECT in anime, is the exact OPPOSITE of what someone might say. especially if the statement comes at a time when you might be second guessing yourself about the addressed outcome.

with this I'll leave you with another paraphrased line from the show:

"Rock Lee will never be able to fight again..."
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Old 2004-02-28, 23:42   Link #72
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Okay first off Neji did have the Kaiten during the preliminaries.
Remember when Neji is fighting Hinata he says "Your attacks had no affect on me"
When he says that you see a slight chakra barrier.
He obviously was toying with HInata and yes he also had the 64 Hakke. If you noticed HInata's arm he shut off he Chakra so she couldn't use her Jyuugen attacks (shooting out quick chakra to another person's body harming internal organs)

If Neji faced Rock during the preliminaries Rock would lose. It isn't a question.
Facts:
Neji wasn't surprised at lee taking off weights. he merely smirked arrogantly.

Neji had his Kaiten(he probably wouldn't be able to do it as large as he did against naruto) + strike

Neji can keep up with Rock's speed without weights.(Neji can see through object what makes you think he oculdn't see the weights+neji and rock lee trained together)

Rock lee during the a Fight Sasuke vs Gaara rock says how he can't counter attack well.

Rock's only hope was Ura renge (Primary Lotus)

Neji Can see almost 360 degrees and the blind spot is REALLY REALLY SMALL

I guess since none of you read the manga it explains how his almost 360 absolute defense works. He had the 360 defense during the preliminations.

Once you guys get up to the explanation of how it works you'll see why Rock Lee wouldn't win.

Rock knows that Lee can keep up with his speed without weights thats why he didn't say anything about neji until the ura renge.

The Ura renge was the only thing neji didn't know about Lee

However If Neji took Lee seriously at that time Neji would only need to deflect lee once with a Kaiten while Lee was in Ura renge. Once ur muscles rip to a certain point you won't be able to move.

sorry i'm a rock lee fan but he wasn't stronger than neji probably would come close with his ura renge

lee is pure offense and his trump card was ure renge.

imo

lee probably could have beaten gaara if he played it smart
gaara would have beaten down neji.
neji would beat lee.
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Old 2004-02-29, 00:17   Link #73
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btw i also have rock lee's stats and neji's stats
in naruto 2 the game they have their stats
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Old 2004-02-29, 00:49   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
How about when he beat the living crap out of Lee in front of Tenten, and Tenten tells him that he should stop challenging Neji because he'll never win...then Lee goes and cries because he says that he keeps getting stronger and challenging Neji, and Neji stomps him into the ground every freaking time. If I remeber the anime sequence right, Lee lands maybe 2 hits before Neji puts him on his back for the umpteenth time.
Oh, oh, which episode is that? Or better yet, which chapter in the manga?
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Old 2004-02-29, 01:43   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Dorfl
Oh, oh, which episode is that? Or better yet, which chapter in the manga?
I'm not sure of the Episode #, but it's the one where Lee/Guy are explaining Lee's nindo, and it has a flashback of Lee training. I'm pretty sure it's during the Lee/Gaara fight, after Kakashi chides Guy for teaching Lee how to open the gates. He's kicking the tree trunk 1000 times, and if he fails, he jumps rope 1,500 times, and if he fails that, etc.

He's training all day bacause Neji handed his ass to him again and when Lee fails a final time he starts to cry, and Guy yells from the bushes, "You aren't giving up that early, are you, Lee?!"

Lee start crying and explaining no matter how hard he tries, certain people always beat the crap out of him, and it doesn't matter how hard he trains, he never sees any results when he challenges again. Then Guy calls him a Genius of Effort, and Lee's all inspired again.

In the Manga, It's Chapter 84, page 9.
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Old 2004-02-29, 02:00   Link #76
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But Nejis Kaiten takes up alot of CHakra. And when naruto attacked him with the fox deamon chakra even with the blow to him after the 64 hit strike (sorry forgot what its called) he had enough stamina to use the Kage Bushin No Justsu and to beat Neji and Neji couldn't do anything afterwards due to his lack of Chakra just after using the Kaiten 2 times in episode 62. And i recall seeing Rock Lee get pummeled by the sand of Garaa before opening up the 5th gate and using the Uru Renge and afterwards was able to stand. So you think Rock Lee with his weights off with his master encouraging him on that Rock Lee could get up more than twice after the Kaiten and take on a Neji who is without CHakra. Maybe Rock Lee would not be able to stand afterwards but i think powered by the 5th gate he can survive 2 or 3 direct attacks on the Kaiten. Mayhaps im forgetting some factors in this but i just know Rock lee has incredible will and powered by the gates and without any weights he can put up a great match against Neji.
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Old 2004-02-29, 04:21   Link #77
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Neji could probably track Lee moving at max speed. Sure, in his fight against Lee, Sasuke had trouble even with his Sharingan. However, just a few hours after getting stomped by Lee's speed, Sasuke is keeping of Oro moving at high speed - probably faster than Lee's unweighted speed if we can judge from the trail of junk behind their movement. He keeps commenting to himself "I can see" as he launchs fireballs at Oro. Neji, with much more experience using his eyes, could probably track Lee even at max speed.

Lee with 5 open gates would probably win. High speed feints could be used to deplete Neji's chakra even if he's using Kaiten (because of it, in fact).

On the other hand, Neji could attack Lee while he's standing there opening the gates. Even if the Gates' chakra overload nullifies the effect of tengetsu (sp) hits, he could just use his soft, internal damage based hits to injure Lee. However, Neji would probably want to see the full extent of Lee's ability and let him open the gates without countering. After all, he also let Naruto spend like 5 minutes harnessing Kyubi's (sp) power.
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Old 2004-02-29, 05:08   Link #78
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However, Neji would probably want to see the full extent of Lee's ability and let him open the gates without countering. After all, he also let Naruto spend like 5 minutes harnessing Kyubi's (sp) power.
Because that's how shounen fighting manga works, don'tcha know. Heaven forbid that you actually kick your enemy's ass before he has time to power up that fancy but deadly-looking new move. Just like Gaara just stood there and gave Rock Lee time to open all those gates, and let's not even go to DBZ. Why do they do that, could they possibly be hoping that the opponent would blow himself up or are they just insatiably curious? You'd think they'd have learnt already: any time your enemy tries anything suspicious, you should immediately and without hesitation pound him into the dust and keep pounding him till he can't rise any more. Then pound him some more!

Keeping it relevant, it would be interesting to see what strategy Rock Lee would use. If he went all out with Ura Renge from the start while Neji was still fresh, there was the very real danger of all his attacks being dogded, countered or deflected. On the other hand, if he wanted to wait till Neji had been worn down, he might end up wearing himself down, not to mention even one hit from juuken could be decisive. He might try to hang back and use long-range attacks, but close range fighting seems to be his specialty. Hmmm....what can he do... The question is interesting, but of course I want Neji to win because he's sexy. So Neji wins. End of discussion.
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Old 2004-02-29, 18:14   Link #79
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Rock Lee Rocks!
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Old 2004-02-29, 18:28   Link #80
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When they show Neji fighting Lee, thats way back in the past when Lee and Neji first became Genins. You can tell by Lee's clothing and his haircut, which are completly different a year later. So I doubt Lee had his super enchanced speed from wearing those weights back than.
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