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Old 2004-02-29, 18:40   Link #81
Coder8
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Hairy your forgetting the fact that Neji is a Genuis...He can achive greater powers then Rock Lee just because of his lineage. If anything Neji improved more then Lee.
Lee is fast yes...but neji has him out classed.
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Last edited by Coder8; 2011-05-14 at 03:17.
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Old 2004-02-29, 19:56   Link #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
Because that's how shounen fighting manga works, don'tcha know. Heaven forbid that you actually kick your enemy's ass before he has time to power up that fancy but deadly-looking new move. Just like Gaara just stood there and gave Rock Lee time to open all those gates, and let's not even go to DBZ. Why do they do that, could they possibly be hoping that the opponent would blow himself up or are they just insatiably curious? You'd think they'd have learnt already: any time your enemy tries anything suspicious, you should immediately and without hesitation pound him into the dust and keep pounding him till he can't rise any more. Then pound him some more!
Well, it doesn't always work like that. Kiba presses Naruto so there's no time to Kage Bushin. Kakashi needs to restrain Zabuza with a summons so he can power up the Chidori. Gaara is just lazy - he barely moves period. With automatic defenses and the ability to reach out with sand, why does he need to? I'm kind of surprised he bothers to get up in fights, and that he walks around, instead of picking himself up with sand.

------------------------------------

In the flashback where Neji beats up Lee, it's true that Lee doesn't seem to have his super speed. However, Neji isn't using his Byakgun (sp) or chakra based attacks. He just pummels Lee.
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Old 2004-02-29, 22:19   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victim
I'm kind of surprised he bothers to get up in fights, and that he walks around, instead of picking himself up with sand.
Rofl can you imagine?
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Old 2004-02-29, 23:17   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTD
Okay first off Neji did have the Kaiten during the preliminaries.
Remember when Neji is fighting Hinata he says "Your attacks had no affect on me"
When he says that you see a slight chakra barrier.
He obviously was toying with HInata and yes he also had the 64 Hakke. If you noticed HInata's arm he shut off he Chakra so she couldn't use her Jyuugen attacks (shooting out quick chakra to another person's body harming internal organs)

If Neji faced Rock during the preliminaries Rock would lose. It isn't a question.
Facts:
Neji wasn't surprised at lee taking off weights. he merely smirked arrogantly.

Neji had his Kaiten(he probably wouldn't be able to do it as large as he did against naruto) + strike

Neji can keep up with Rock's speed without weights.(Neji can see through object what makes you think he oculdn't see the weights+neji and rock lee trained together)

Rock lee during the a Fight Sasuke vs Gaara rock says how he can't counter attack well.

Rock's only hope was Ura renge (Primary Lotus)

Neji Can see almost 360 degrees and the blind spot is REALLY REALLY SMALL

I guess since none of you read the manga it explains how his almost 360 absolute defense works. He had the 360 defense during the preliminations.

Once you guys get up to the explanation of how it works you'll see why Rock Lee wouldn't win.

Rock knows that Lee can keep up with his speed without weights thats why he didn't say anything about neji until the ura renge.

The Ura renge was the only thing neji didn't know about Lee

However If Neji took Lee seriously at that time Neji would only need to deflect lee once with a Kaiten while Lee was in Ura renge. Once ur muscles rip to a certain point you won't be able to move.

sorry i'm a rock lee fan but he wasn't stronger than neji probably would come close with his ura renge

lee is pure offense and his trump card was ure renge.

imo

lee probably could have beaten gaara if he played it smart
gaara would have beaten down neji.
neji would beat lee.
"Neji wasn't surprised at lee taking off weights. he merely smirked arrogantly."

That never happened in the manga. (Very important fact for this discussion) Anime filler = irrelevant.


"Neji had his Kaiten(he probably wouldn't be able to do it as large as he did against naruto) + strike"

Don't forget it consumes a huge amount of chakra. And the strike has to correctly connect to someone who seems to be faster than a speeding bullet.


"Neji can keep up with Rock's speed without weights.(Neji can see through object what makes you think he oculdn't see the weights+neji and rock lee trained together)"

You don't know that. Stop making up stuff. Lee had a self imposed rule regarding the weights. Which means that he never took them off unless the situation corresponded with his rule or Gai gave the A-ok.
Neji knowing Lee has weights on does not mean Neji saw Lee's speed. And even if we disregard the self imposed rule and Gai's A-ok, why would Lee take off his weights (training material) during training?


"Rock lee during the a Fight Sasuke vs Gaara rock says how he can't counter attack well."

No, he said if he was able to do chidori, he wouldn't have the insight (sharingan eyes) to see and prepare a counter attack for a counter. Since chidori (a straightforward attack) can easily be countered.


"Rock's only hope was Ura renge (Primary Lotus)"

That's a lot of bull, let me join you.
Hokage's only hope was Enma.
Sasuke's only hope was chidori
Oro's only hope was Sho + Nidaime

"Neji Can see almost 360 degrees and the blind spot is REALLY REALLY SMALL"

And in shounen series that's all that's necessary.


"I guess since none of you read the manga it explains how his almost 360 absolute defense works. He had the 360 defense during the preliminations. Once you guys get up to the explanation of how it works you'll see why Rock Lee wouldn't win."

If someone shoots a bullet at you and you see it coming wil you have the ability to react to it. And this bullet can bluff, activate Kaiten when you think you're about to get hit and the bullet bluff's the attack. All that happens is wasted chakra.


"Rock knows that Lee can keep up with his speed without weights thats why he didn't say anything about neji until the ura renge."

Right, Kishimoto. No better yet, WHAT?!?


"The Ura renge was the only thing neji didn't know about Lee."

You don't know that and I don't know that.

"However If Neji took Lee seriously at that time Neji would only need to deflect lee once with a Kaiten while Lee was in Ura renge. Once ur muscles rip to a certain point you won't be able to move."

That is if he could deflect Lee. Lee = Speed. Seeing an incoming attack and being able to react to it are two seperate things. Here's my take on your scenario. Lee bends his knees to attack, Neji stares to r...POW!! Neji's sent into the air and already unconcious. Unlike Gaara, Neji has no armour of sand to protect him.


Well, that's how I see things.
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Old 2004-03-01, 01:03   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victim
Gaara is just lazy - he barely moves period. With automatic defenses and the ability to reach out with sand, why does he need to? I'm kind of surprised he bothers to get up in fights, and that he walks around, instead of picking himself up with sand.
Can you imagine Shikamaru with the sand and the shadows? He'd never move...EVER. Get the sand to carry him food...take out the trash...hahaha.
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Old 2004-03-01, 01:29   Link #86
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Quote:
Hairy your forgetting the fact that Neji is a Genuis...He can achive greater powers then Rock Lee just because of his lineage. If anything Neji improved more then Lee.
Lee is fast yes...but neji has him out classed.

Ahh...what? I don't remember arguing about any of this. All I was saying was that the Lee Vs Neji fight that was shown was way back in the past when Lee had no skills whatsoever. Hence Gai sensei saying "When I first met Lee, he had no talent"

As for who improved more, I think since Neji was already strong, and Rock Lee was so bad back than, I think Rock Lee improved more only because there was more room for improvement. Doesn't mean he became stronger than Neji, but he just improved alot more.

And what exactly do you mean Neji has him outclassed? They seem pretty even to me, its up to assumptions as to which technique would win over the other, Kaiten vs Primary Lotus. Atleast we can all agree it would be close which is good enough for Lee considering he went from the worst to the level of one of the best.
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Old 2004-03-01, 11:31   Link #87
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Hmm i dont know. I like lee a lot but in Naruto,bloodline limits do tend to lead to superior abilities. And judging by the way Neji never got hit,or he did at the very end by naruto,i think Nejis speed himself is very strong. Lee may have improved....But its ignorant to think that Neji was unaware of Lee's improvement. Anyways,Lee acts as if he has never beaten Neji...considering his life goal is to beat a genuis,i dont think he would stop facing neji in battles.

O well ;D would be a intresting match or a heartbreaker,either ones good
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Last edited by Coder8; 2011-05-14 at 03:18.
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Old 2004-03-01, 11:40   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
Can you imagine Shikamaru with the sand and the shadows? He'd never move...EVER. Get the sand to carry him food...take out the trash...hahaha.
but i dont think he could controll the sand all the way out to the curb. haha

he would do everything else with the sand... even flocculate his water.
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Old 2004-03-01, 11:56   Link #89
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Coder Lee has NEVER beaten neji. The Ura renge was Gai & Lee's answer to beating neji. Lee was saving that move for neji in the preliminaries incase they met. As for Lee ebating a genius...well he beat sasuke and he certainly is a genius.
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Old 2004-03-01, 13:37   Link #90
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Coder, I don't see what so ignorant about thinking Neji was unaware of Lee's improvement. Lee's speed gradually developed. For all we know it reached it's current state a week before the chuunin exam. Sure Lee trained with his team but he also trained in solitude.

Is it ignorant to think Sasuke has no idea about Naruto's current improvements (Kyubi Stamina/Chakra + Gamabunta). Sure they train together, but that doesn't mean they don't train seperately.

Last edited by DarkNtity; 2004-03-01 at 14:32.
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Old 2004-03-01, 14:32   Link #91
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I think it's very hard for Lee to beat Neji, like Lee said to Sasuke his abilities are the worst matchup against the Sharingan however against a taijutsu speacialist, for instance Lee, a person with the Byakugan + Jyukeen is even worse, how do you hit a guy with long range almost 360 vision and can stop your chakra flow in your Arms and Legs just by blocking your attacks, besides if Lee could have already the skills to beat Neji don't you think he would have done it already? that's why he said that the Ura Renge was especially to beat Neji.
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Old 2004-03-01, 16:22   Link #92
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neji could stop lee's chakra flow all he wanted ... it wouldnt matter.. he doesnt us it..remember.... and also i dont think gui was teaching lee to open the gates and use primary lotus on neji.. that would be like .. ok .. go ahead and kill neji if u want lee, i dont mind. Gui was teaching the normal lotus to lee, neji, and tenten..but only LEe was able to learn it proporly. Lee did say that he was saving the primary lotus for neji, or atleast the 8 gates. Neji isnt as fast as lee by a long shot i doubt , i wish i had the official book that has everybodies statistics. Neji has never once showed that he is anywhere close to that speed , not in the naruto fight ... and not in the manga either. to say who would win , i dunno because neji and lee know each other by now so well, Lee i think would have a great chance with the gates open , but who knows, Kishimoto knows!
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Old 2004-03-01, 16:57   Link #93
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well, I think Neji couldn't keep up with Lee, with his super absurd speed and all

and I don't think Neji could keep up with Primairy Lotus, and Neji has the iritating ability to talk all the time about fate that and this ( not anymore but he used to ) and to serious underestimate everyone
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Old 2004-03-01, 17:07   Link #94
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Originally Posted by fenikkusu
neji could stop lee's chakra flow all he wanted ... it wouldnt matter.. he doesnt us it..remember....
Yes he does. Remember when Lee dashes in between Sasuke and some other guy during the Chuunin exam? He blocks Sasuke's punch and the oher guy's kick, and Sasuke wonders what kind of technique that is, and that chakra's coming from his hands.
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Old 2004-03-01, 17:41   Link #95
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Also remember during Neji vs Naruto, Neji blocked Naruto's punch with Chakra instead of his hands, than did Kaiten.
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Old 2004-03-01, 18:33   Link #96
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what does neji using chakra have to do with lee using chakra, and i just went back and watched that episode.... it didnt show chakra comming out of lee's hand .. Sasuke juss said, he stoped my kick whats with the chakra in his hand... i would guess that sasuke was thinkin that to stop his kick he would need to put chakra in his hand.... gui says that lee has no ninjitsu or genjitsu abilities ... he can't do anything basically with his chakra basically i beleive... OK DAMMIT ..WHERE IS HUNTER WHEN U NEED HIM
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Old 2004-03-01, 18:52   Link #97
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Originally Posted by fenikkusu
gui says that lee has no ninjitsu or genjitsu abilities ... he can't do anything basically with his chakra basically i beleive...
If Lee doesn't do anything with chakra...THEN WHAT DOES OPENING UP THE FREAKING CHAKRA GATES DO FOR HIM?

Of *course* he uses chakra.

As for how Neji using chakra applies to the Lee using chakra argument? I don't know, that's freaking beyond me.
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Old 2004-03-01, 19:06   Link #98
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thats right ..the gates r controled wiht chakra... ok..but then why can't Lee use ninjutsu or genjutsu at all if he can control his chakra????
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Old 2004-03-01, 19:07   Link #99
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I think Chakra is like your energy. So Taijutsu still uses up Chakra, just like we know Naruto has good stamina becuase he has a large supply of Chakra. Most people can use this chakra for nin and gen techniques but Lee can't. So I think its pretty clear.
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Old 2004-03-01, 19:23   Link #100
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In that case, blocking someone's flow of chakra will severely reduce his stamina. So, block his flow of chakra AND smash his internal organs, damn Neji will be dangerous once he has Byakugan mastered.
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