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Old 2007-02-21, 20:23   Link #1
Sazelyt
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Separate "Spoiler" thread?

This question targets the heavily manga related forums (especially Naruto forum).

How much possible it is, to create a separate thread for spoiler discussion about the next unpublished chapter?

Since, I might get asked about the advantages of that, following are the reasons that I have initially thought:

1. People, who want to discuss the current chapter, can discuss without the possibility of getting spoiled or in a way that will not force them to find posts about the current chapter, especially when the spoiler related discussion occupies a great percentage of the posts taking place between monday (or mainly tuesday)-thursday (rarely, even friday).

2. People, who want to mainly discuss on the spoiler related information, can discuss more freely (not limited by the spoiler tags), and can access information easily, without clicking on the spoiler button, in every related post. This may also help increase the amount of discussion on the upcoming chapter.

3. I think, we can have a more organized structure this way, by separating the current chapter - spoiler information - next chapter threads.


So, any suggestion or comments?
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Old 2007-02-21, 22:38   Link #2
Ledgem
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It seems like a good idea for discussions. My only question would be, what would you plan to have done when the regular discussion catches up to the spoiler discussion? To have those discussions occurring in two threads would be a bit spammish, in my opinion.

You'd also be cutting back on the number of people in the discussion. For large discussions it may not be an issue, but for small discussions it could be the difference between a lively discussion and a dead thread.

Thoughts?
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Old 2007-02-21, 23:00   Link #3
Sazelyt
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I don't think people would want to continue discussing in the spoiler thread, when the full chapter is out. At least that is what I would do.

After the thread does its job, you can do one of the two following things: (i) automatically place spoiler tags on each post in that thread and combine it with the previous weeks discussion thread or (ii) create a main "old weeks" spoiler discussion thread, and move the posts in the current spoiler thread, after it does its job. This way, you will not have a spammish view - and still keep them organized in an acceptable way.

On the other issue: for small forums, you are right. But, for, at least, Naruto forum, I don't think that will constitute a problem.
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Old 2007-02-22, 00:13   Link #4
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
After the thread does its job, you can do one of the two following things
Just curious, but who is the "you" to whom you refer here? Sounds to me like all this would fall to the mods.
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Old 2007-02-22, 07:26   Link #5
felix
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Yes but it's fun to discuss the posibilities as it were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example, a simple solution would be to abandon the idea of "pre-discussion" (expectations etc.) or to create a thread for that suff. (only one general one)

Now the chapter threads are all about the chapter, and if people don't want to get spoiled they should just stay out of the ones they haven't read yet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The funny thing is.. there is already a thread in the Naruto forum that is

So why are people discussing things in the Manga threads were they are likely to get spoiled ASP and not just venting their expectations in that thread?!
-- retorical question
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Old 2007-02-22, 07:50   Link #6
xris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
How much possible it is, to create a separate thread for spoiler discussion about the next unpublished chapter?
I don't really understand what you are asking for.

For the Naruto forum (for example), do you mean you want a third thread to complement the weekly manga discussion threads and the [Manga] Spoilers & Speculation for experienced Naruto Anime-fans! thread?

As far as I can make out, the logic for the request is so people will not have to place thier comments in spoiler tags all the time. Is that correct? Wouldn't creating the manga discussion threads a week early do the trick? I don't know if this is practical or not, I'm still trying to work out what the actual problem is at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
After the thread does its job...automatically place spoiler tags on each post in that thread and combine it with the previous weeks discussion thread
That's not going to happen. For some reason people seem to think that Mods like doing boring and repetitive tasks for no personal reason, like they are getting paid to do this sort of thing
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:09   Link #7
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
I don't really understand what you are asking for.

For the Naruto forum (for example), do you mean you want a third thread to complement the weekly manga discussion threads and the [Manga] Spoilers & Speculation for experienced Naruto Anime-fans! thread?

As far as I can make out, the logic for the request is so people will not have to place thier comments in spoiler tags all the time. Is that correct? Wouldn't creating the manga discussion threads a week early do the trick? I don't know if this is practical or not, I'm still trying to work out what the actual problem is at the moment.
Not exactly like that. The main thread should not be a general thread, rather a weekly thread, that will finish its main job at the time the chapter came out. For instance, assume that the spoiler for the next chapter came out on Monday, we can start the discussion on that spoilers, using the next chapter's title at that time. And after the next chapter comes out on Thursday or Friday, we can resume the official discussion there.

After the thread does its job, we can move whole thread at the end of another thread, for instance, within a general weekly manga spoiler discussion thread.

One of the reasons for doing that is to achieve, just like you say, free discussion with no spoiler tags. However, it may not be better to continue it as the weekly chapter discussion thread, cause there might be incorrect information within that thread, that will also be moved to the official chapter discussion thread.

Logically, it is better to either append it at the end of previous week's manga chapter discussion thread, or to append it to more a general thread.

Quote:
That's not going to happen. For some reason people seem to think that Mods like doing boring and repetitive tasks for no personal reason, like they are getting paid to do this sort of thing
I am not sure, whether I made myself clear on that task or not. It is more like mods writing a simple command (although I don't know how much easy or difficult that part is), targeting that thread (instead of doing it post by post manually), and that command would mark each post with spoiler tag, and then all you have to do is appending it to the previous week's manga chapter discussion thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Just curious, but who is the "you" to whom you refer here? Sounds to me like all this would fall to the mods.
The posts in this forum mainly target the mods - since they are related to the forum settings -, although, it is also better, for other posters to give their opinions on the subject, as a feedback.
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:40   Link #8
xris
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The main problem here is that vB forums don't work in the way you think they might.

If we merge threads together, they are merged in chronilogical order, i.e. the order the posts were made according to their timestamp (note: this isn't exactly true but it will serve without going into pointless detail). Using the existing Mod features, we cannot merge an existing thread "to the end" of another thread. All we can do is merge them together, the posts will then be arranged according to their timestamp.

This generally will make the thread rather confusing after the merge because it will typically result in separate discussions now adjacent to one another. Since not everyone uses quotes when replying, it can be difficult to see what reply refers to what post.

As for writing a script to add spoiler tags and merge the threads, well anything is possible after all. But then we would need to mess around with the underlying vB database and ferckle around at a level not really meant for intervention. Now, if anyone wants to write and validate such a script so it would work on a vB forum running on multiple servers, please go ahead. Just bear in mind the problems we are having with the current multi server set-up where it can't even make the verification registration for new members work correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
It is more like mods writing a simple command (although I don't know how much easy or difficult that part is)
Please don't claim it's a simple command and then admit you don't know how difficult it might be It might well be simple (which I somehow doubt), but we need to find someone to write it and test that it works the way it's expected to.

But I still don't see what is wrong with creating the manga thread a week early. If you would want to discuss what might happen in the next chapter, instead of posting in the thread for the current chapter (using spoiler tags), you would just post in the thread for the next chapter. No need for spoilers then. That requires no extra work for the Mods and it would mean less work for the posters since they don't need to include spoiler tags. The only difference to what you are requesting is that such posts would be at the begining of the thread instead of being merged to the end. Maybe I'm still missing something here?
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:59   Link #9
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
The main problem here is that vB forums don't work in the way you think they might.

If we merge threads together, they are merged in chronilogical order, i.e. the order the posts were made according to their timestamp (note: this isn't exactly true but it will serve without going into pointless detail). Using the existing Mod features, we cannot merge an existing thread "to the end" of another thread. All we can do is merge them together, the posts will then be arranged according to their timestamp.

This generally will make the thread rather confusing after the merge because it will typically result in separate discussions now adjacent to one another. Since not everyone uses quotes when replying, it can be difficult to see what reply refers to what post.


As for writing a script to add spoiler tags and merge the threads, well anything is possible after all. But then we would need to mess around with the underlying vB database and ferckle around at a level not really meant for intervention. Now, if anyone wants to write and validate such a script so it would work on a vB forum running on multiple servers, please go ahead. Just bear in mind the problems we are having with the current multi server set-up where it can't even make the verification registration for new members work correctly.

Please don't claim it's a simple command and then admit you don't know how difficult it might be It might well be simple (which I somehow doubt), but we need to find someone to write it and test that it works the way it's expected to.
Still, I don't think merging will cause an important problem in our case, as people will most likely stop posting in that thread once the original chapter is out. So, except for maybe 10 posts, that thread will lose its importance. So, I think merging it with a general manga spoiler thread, should be ok.

For the other case, merging it with previous discussion, requires spoiler tags. Hence, as you said, then requires a script to achieve that. I will check around to see if I can find someone capable of writing that. I have considered as like creating another option for mods to use on each tread, so when they click on that option, it will automatically do the job.

Quote:
But I still don't see what is wrong with creating the manga thread a week early. If you would want to discuss what might happen in the next chapter, instead of posting in the thread for the current chapter (using spoiler tags), you would just post in the thread for the next chapter. No need for spoilers then. That requires no extra work for the Mods and it would mean less work for the posters since they don't need to include spoiler tags. The only difference to what you are requesting is that such posts would be at the begining of the thread instead of being merged to the end. Maybe I'm still missing something here?
For me, it is not a big problem, as long as the initial post can be changed later on with the original manga summary. But, there may be other posters who wouldn't want the spoiler discussion included within that thread, at the beginning - since it may include browsing through pages of discussion on incorrect information that is unrelated to the current chapter.
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Old 2007-02-22, 12:55   Link #10
monir
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One question:

Quote:
3. I think, we can have a more organized structure this way, by separating the current chapter - spoiler information - next chapter threads.
How many posts in average in a manga discussion thread discuss expectation/titles/events regarding next week's chapter?
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Old 2007-02-22, 13:11   Link #11
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
How many posts in average in a manga discussion thread discuss expectation/titles/events regarding next week's chapter?
In the latest weekly manga discussion thread, it was around or more than 70-80 posts.

Depending on the interest, the weekly number might change, but, if we make a separate thread for such spoiler discussion, I think it might trigger more discussion and the total might be able to reach 100 posts, weekly. (this is for Naruto only)
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Old 2007-02-22, 13:27   Link #12
monir
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A separate thread might be doable. In fact, it's much better idea than hacking the vB. I'll wait till I discuss it with Hunter since he also reads the manga, so will have a wider perspective on this situation than me.

Anyway, thanks for letting us know.
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Old 2007-02-22, 13:29   Link #13
felix
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Or you could just leave speculation for the next chapter in the current chapter..
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Old 2007-02-22, 14:50   Link #14
Hunter
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I intended to create the weekly chapter thread sooner for this purpose starting from next week.
Since I was still hesitating about some details like date of creation starting with first set of spoilers or with the confirmed spoiler, how the thread would be named prior to the actual release, etc. I didn't make an announcement yet.

But to answer roughtly your question, yes there will be a thread where these discussions could take place without spoiler tags and without interfering with discussion about the current chapter.
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Old 2007-02-22, 17:46   Link #15
felix
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Considering how all the rules and policies seem to bend when it comes to the Naruto forum, maybe all these discussion concerning policies and rules should be just held there.

Don't mean to sound rude but everything is a exeption when it comes to that forum, it's probably for the best that policies derived from already bent rules should not influence the rest of the forum.. more so, considering that such problems under similar circumstances have yet to arise.

* Ahem
As xris once mentioned..
> "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Right now I think only the Naruto forum needs fixing, at most.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another reason would be.. well, people there seem (or at least most that were there till before Shippuden) to be somewhat either invisible or missing in the rest of the forum. I'm kind of doubting they are actually aware of threads like this.

It would probably be better to make threads there where they would see them and offer comments and feedback instead of here where they are somewhat invisible. In the end they're the ones who are going to benefit from this..
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Old 2007-06-16, 20:48   Link #16
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I was thinking about a spoiler pic thread. I know it sounds dumb but I was thinking about the people who just can't seem to find the chapter or people who don't get the chapter on a certain day. It could also help out if anyone on the forums wants to refer back to a certain part of the chapter that they just can't explain in words. Any way, just a suggestion.
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Old 2007-06-16, 21:33   Link #17
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShikaShika View Post
I'm saying use ONE spoiler thread for every chapter.
At least for the Naruto section, I hope it'll be something like that, this way the mods would only have to create current chapter's thread each week once a confirmed spoiler is found (or even once a raw is released if they want to).

People who are into spoilers would likely check the spoilers thread regularly anyway, so I don't think it's necessary to separate each chapter's spoiler discussion.
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Old 2007-06-17, 00:54   Link #18
Zu Ra
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In regards to Naruto section the solution is pretty simple. Create a chapter prediction thread which will be updated (chapter name xxx ) every week with respect to chapter number .

This coming chapter prediction thread will read

[Manga] Chapter Prediction thread Currently XXX

The title ( XXX ) of the thread will be updated weekly . What will this accomplish? Well firstly the actual chapter thread will be free of fake spoilers. Secondly poster will get a chance to post spoiler authentic or not.

As the chapter thread posts average above 250 posts The prediction thread wont eat away posts in the chapter thread .
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Old 2007-06-18, 23:03   Link #19
KiNA
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Rather then creating a separate thread... add a link to the beginning of the real summary in the first post...Peoples can skip the first few useless discussion.



Its not that hard to edit the first post you know,
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Old 2007-06-19, 06:19   Link #20
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all i will say is i am fed up with the stupid leads as tobi is from konoha vaaaooowww things...they are not even real and discussed for 2 pages avarage...i dont say that people sholdnt talk about it but i dont wantto read them in weekly discussion topics which are not even in the episode...just fakes.
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