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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 88 59.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 27.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.34%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-02-24, 04:50   Link #81
Skyfall
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I have nothing against the crash scene as a first time viewer. To be honest, i saw it coming - and i expected it to be - cut-to-darkness-with-sound-effects (i would not have been surprised if they didn't show the accident at all).... but i can say this was way more shocking. I was not expecting to actually see the whole scene... the impact was there. I think i was stunned for a couple of seconds ... which is not an easy task to achieve.
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Old 2007-02-24, 05:03   Link #82
Pellissier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Wow. I actually hold an opposite opinion of what you feel. I felt that the accident has been rather downplayed.

Personally, I would have cringed if they made 'car-crash scenario take-XX', where we see the Bambi-eyes of the victim before the screen goes black with accompanying sound-effects. Off-hand, I can already think of two, and if I apply more thought to it, probably a couple dozen more...
Funny how 2 opinions on a 2 seconds footage can differ, isn't it ?

What can I say, at each one his own. It's not the first time I have opposite views with you on Kanon, though I don't use to write on episode threads much

I was expecting a Sayuri-alike resolution, or perhaps the subtleness is what I deem as most undeniably important execution archetype in this Kanon 2006.

By denying their own principles, at my eyes they ruined a potential exceptionally powerful scene. I had shivers on Sayuri's demon attack, really. But I was left cold this time, as it was a mechanical execution because "it had to be done this way to impress people". But that theory bounced on me.
I don't have a counter-proof though, and that's why in that moment I so wished to not have watched 2002...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
well that scene certainly had the shock factor down ~ i had trouble picking my jaw back up from the floor...
for a newbie like me i didnt/wouldnt have expected such a thing to happen so it was pretty surprising that it did ~
As I stated before, probably if I was a first time viewer, my reaction would have been on the opposite, just like DK, since I'm easily emotionally manipulable when it comes to tragedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
theres a clear reason to why akiko "disappeared" in that crash ~ think of the children! >.< they just cant show a flattened body with a pool of blood around ~ not in this kinda way tbh...
Of course, and also because this isn't supposed to be Elfen Lied or Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That's why I don't see the need of portraying that scene in such in a raw way to begin with. :/
So far, the way dealt with Akiko's incident is one of the few (if not the only one) side of Kanon 2002 I'm preferring to Kanon 2006. That one had a huge impact on me, even if it was simplier (but again, I *was* a first time viewer, at that time ^^ )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
was not expecting to actually see the whole scene... the impact was there. I think i was stunned for a couple of seconds ... which is not an easy task to achieve.
If anything else, the scene was certainly made to have a powerful impact on the attendance. I can't see it failing on this regard
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Old 2007-02-24, 05:47   Link #83
Raniie
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Definitely different taste on how you perfer that scene to be handled.

Having seen Toei's version first and when Akiko's scene occured, it didn't left me with much impact. It's probably due to the fact that I've been exposed to those type of tragic approach in other tragic shows, so it left me feeling bleh.

As for KyoAni's version, just like you, I already knew of Akiko's fate. Finally being able to see it in this episode really shocked me more than Toei's version. I literally had my eyes wide open and said to myself, "Woah, they animated the whole accident... freakin' KyoAni... how can you do that to Akiko!" (Goes to show how much animation powerness KyoAni is capable of...)

KyoAni could've gone Elfen Lied on us, considering Kanon is aired during midnight 1AM. I'm glad they didn't animate the rest of the accident in full detail with Akiko being thrown off from the impact or crush under and blood splattering about... as that's definitely not necessary to get the point across.


Oh before I forget again.

DivShare File - [R]_Kanon_2006_Softsubs_1-21.zip - Multi-Color.

Last edited by Raniie; 2007-02-24 at 06:30.
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Old 2007-02-24, 06:07   Link #84
Sogoro
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if they showed blood I would have cried lol this is my first time watching so I'm pretty shocked. I dont want Akiko to die.
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Old 2007-02-24, 06:29   Link #85
Ultima_Rasengan05
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this was a very good episode
and the ending
i was expecting it
but i didn"t expect to actually "see" it
i thought it was gonna just show
Spoiler:


plus i must add something
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-02-24, 08:32   Link #86
houkoholic
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The youtube video of a real crash (like Akiko's) in question, not graphic or anything but might still disturb some people so I'm putting the link in spoilers:


To cut to the chase, it shows that Kyoani has done it right.

Remember people, a lot of the stuff done in TVs and movies (especially for Hollywood) are *over dramatised* and doesn't actually happen in real life as they do not obey laws of science. For example, you cannot make a car explode by shooting its fuel tank, human bodies don't spontaneously explode in vaccum, airplanes don't rip apart in explosive decompression etc, all of these visual queues are so standard in movies that a lot of people assume must be true but does not actually happen.

Last edited by houkoholic; 2007-02-24 at 08:43.
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Old 2007-02-24, 08:52   Link #87
niwasatou
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This episode was too much on many, many levels.
First of all, Akikooo.
And then.. I've never seen a character as MOE~ as Nayuki. Really, little Nayuki just kind of blew me away.
I hate you, Yuuichi! How could you simply smash the snow bunny away..?!
I want to kill Ayu n- no, wait..
(*has converted to Nayuki Fangirlism*)
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Old 2007-02-24, 08:59   Link #88
Dop
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Oh... My.... GOD!
I was completely shocked by that.

The fact that this wasn't a big dramatic scene but just a
Spoiler:
made it seem all the more shocking and real.
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Old 2007-02-24, 09:37   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
There's a youtube video of a car crash with pedestrian victim that is almost *exactly* like Akiko's predicament - even down to the "vanishing" some have made fun of as "bad animation". I've seen more than my share of real life accidents --- they are usually disturbingly banal in execution until you see the results under the metal and hear the screams.
I think a few of us who are complaining about the "vanishing" don't mean simply that we don't see Akiko after the car hits her. I think it's quite appropriate to not show her, and, after all, it does resemble the video you mentioned in that aspect.

My problem is a frame timing issue that creates the illusion that she disappears a split-second before she *should*.

A disturbing scene nonetheless.
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Old 2007-02-24, 09:51   Link #90
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Episode was good overall. Wow...I haven't posted in a Kanon thread in like...months.

Probably gonna get flamed for this, but am the only one who thinks the last scene's storyboarding (( minus the cake of course )) of the accident really...really...sucked?

The last scene was easily the most important one with it's neccesity to build up the tension, emotion and harsh suspence and boom!! And we're left with an empty, bitter feeling to ponder while waiting for the next episode in agony.

In other words, that scene was obviously to give us a WTF HOLY SHIT GODDAMN DAMN IT feeling....but I couldn't feel that at all. It was like...what the hell was that execution?

The way there's little focus on Akiko, and more so on the overall background view and the car's flipping animation made me feel sour. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be focused on Akiko. It could be like...on the mood. or the atmosphere. Or even the gore. But it was none of those. It was like..."look at our amazing physics as the jeep flips over from being crashed from a overspeeding car in snow. Oh? And that woman pancaked under it? She's just a by-product."

Doesn't ruin a good episode, but it didn't really achieve what I thought would've been a gripping mindfuck to me at least.
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Old 2007-02-24, 10:08   Link #91
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Wait a minute.......no gutter-vote from the resident gutter-voter this time round?!

To quote Yuuichi: "Yume ka?" (Is this a dream?)

And anyway, seems like there's been quite enough grieving over Akiko already, so let me see if I can draw peoples' attentions away from that with some other observations of my own:

Earlier on, I posted a couple of points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
1) One scene it's the start of school, the very next, Yuuichi and Nayuki and Kitagawa were digging around in the mountain. No in-between. A bit unsettling, if you ask me.

2) I know KyoAni's gods of animation, but there can be too much of a good thing sometimes. I mean, at the end of the "doing homework together" scene when Nayuki's passed out on the floor, when she turned onto her back and went "Nyoo", I wasn't looking at her face, if you get my meaning.

With teasers like that, who needs fanservice?
3) Anyone find it a little off that the Minase mother-daughter pair......how should I put it? It's like they didn't even think that Ayu was missing; it's like they thought she "went home" or something, if you get my meaning. There are a couple of explanations for that that I can think of;

- They thought Ayu went home because, indeed, Yuuichi lied to them and told them that she "went home". Kind of like how Yuuichi told Ayu in Episode 11 that Makoto "went home", you know what I'm saying?
- They actually knew this was coming somehow, but they opted not to ask too much since Yuuichi looked like his back will break if he took another straw to it. This implies that they know more about Ayu then they're letting on, and they've still not let on everything they know yet...

On that note, even Yuuichi himself isn't freaking out as badly as I was expecting him to, at least not yet.

Spoiler for a possible spoiler for the next episode, so you've been warned!!!:


4) Take a look at 17:26-17:30. Now try to recall all the way back to Episode 2. Looks like Yuuichi isn't the only one in the Minase clan with a fetish for "doing" someone who's deep asleep.

5) "The Scene" still remains as shocking as ever on a second viewing, but on that same second viewing, I got hit pretty badly with a sense of deja vu, which blunted the shock somewhat.

Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

Spoiler for answer to the riddle:


Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire.

6) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 1: In Toei, it was Shota Yuuichi who came up with all the ideas for the "school". In KyoAni, it was Loli Ayu who was the source of all the wild ideas. Hmmm......anyone can corroborate on which way was it done in the game?

7) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 2: "Boku wa Ascaloth no baka". I failed to notice this point until now. Earlier on, there has been some discussion on the apparent scarcity of [i]keitais[/u] (mobile phones/cellphones, whichever way you swing) in the KyoAni Kanon-verse. After the second viewing, I suddenly remembered that "The Scene" was dealt with in Toei Kanon's 12th episode.....and just before that, Akiko actually pulled out a keitai when Nayuki called her. And not just any keitai, but one that had the "Minase Clan + Makoto" sticker photo pasted on it.

As of this point, still no keitai visible in the KyoAni adaptation.

8) Also, I've noticed that there were plenty of times, even before this episode, when Nayuki simply doesn't seem to see Piro whenever Yuuichi isn't around to stop her. She only gets her cutegasms when Yuuichi is around to keep Piro away from her. Huh?!

9) Another point; Yuuichi was perfectly happy to carry a totally unrelated girl (Ayu) from his own room, through the corridors to her own room.....but he's so squeamish about his own blood-related cousin (Nayuki), that he's equally happy to leave her lying on the floor, with only a blanket?!

That's just heartless......unless the wooden floor of the Minase mansion is warmer and more comfortable than I thought.....

10) BLOOPER CATCH!!!! Look at 11:31-11:33. If Ayu is a southpaw....why did she extend her right hand first this time?!

Unless it's yet another form of KyoAni's highly subtle symbolism.....

11) 18:10-18:13, Nayuki asks Yuuichi if he would disappear as well. A hint of things to come?

Spoiler for the veterans ONLY!!!:
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Old 2007-02-24, 11:40   Link #92
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I think I'll have to organize my thoughts starting from the beginning.

As everyone knows by now, turns out Yuuichi was the one responsible for Ayu's lax rules at her "school". And he wonders how can such a school exist.

Nayuki, sensing Ayu's absence, finally makes her presence felt by Yuuichi by constantly cheering him up. Lots of good Nayuki moments from the game to make the Nayu-chan fanboy in me go "moe~".

Mai gets a passing mention when it comes to the snow bunny. I think I laughed out loud when I saw Nayuki placed her "Raging Heart" bead onto the bunny, giving it a "Borg-like" red-eye.

Kitagawa makes himself useful once again by finding Ayu's missing item, as he did in the original game as well. Though Kaori was omitted from that scene to accommodate the Shiori story.

I now have a better understanding of where Nayuki's flashback scene fits into the bigger picture than when I first played the game. She brought the snow bunny and confessed her feelings to Yuuichi AFTER something "bad" happened with Ayu at the "school". (You guys'll find out soon enough what that means. )

It's a good thing Yuuichi finally realizes Nayuki's feelings, then the classroom door opens, with what I guess is the the school counselor summoning Yuuichi and Nayuki. I knew what was going to happen next, with the interchanging scenes between Akiko-san in the streets and the school. Then came the crash, I still sat up and swore "Holy shit!" at how badly Akiko-san got hit. Poor Akiko-san, and poor Nayuki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
It was nearly perfect until minute 22:00. Note that I already knew of what was going to happen to Akiko, so emotionally the last scene didn't have a great impact on me (while I guess it would have had a terrible one in the opposite case). Despite this though, I was truly disappointed in the way they chose to show that scene. I mean, what is left of subtlety? Was there really a need of showing that scene in that brutal way?
I beg to differ, my friend. In the original visual novel, I only know how bad Akiko-san's condition was when I read from the text "Akiko-san got hit by a car", on the contrary, the way Kyo-Ani portrayed how brutally real the crash was had a greater impact on me than what mere text would reveal.

Quote:
If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.
The demons are invisible, fantasy, out-of-this-world, the car accident is real and could happen to anyone. So even if they did show the demons mangling poor Sayuri-san's body, the impact on the audience would be "oh my goodness" at best, but most likely not "OH SHIT" from seeing a car accident. Kyo-Ani got the reaction it intended from (most of) the audience with such a brutal depiction. Just my humble opinion.
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Old 2007-02-24, 11:59   Link #93
rogueblade
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Hmm...
I thought the first portion of this episode was very, very dull. I wasn't really interested in most of the occurences - only when they started diggin' holes did i really wake up. This episode was bang on for a 6 until then - Nothing was really grabbing my attention.
However, the last couple of minutes...amazing. The Nayuki flashback was heart destroying, and the akiko cake scene was astonishing. Really saved this episode.

What i'm wondering about now, though, is how they'll merge Ayu's and Nayuki's paths together - and complete both - in 3 episodes. I have no idea what happens in the nayuki path, but i'm pretty sure of what happens in the Ayu arc due to spoilarage from here. I mean, it looks like Nayuki's arc has mainly begun, yet Ayu's is just about halfway/halfway between the middle and the end.
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Old 2007-02-24, 12:27   Link #94
houkoholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.
Except that is like how car accidents are always done in every single entertainment show - the old, tired and cheesy "fade out" trick, and frankly that would have just been too cliche. I'm glad that Kyoani actually had done something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueblade View Post
What i'm wondering about now, though, is how they'll merge Ayu's and Nayuki's paths together - and complete both - in 3 episodes. I have no idea what happens in the nayuki path, but i'm pretty sure of what happens in the Ayu arc due to spoilarage from here. I mean, it looks like Nayuki's arc has mainly begun, yet Ayu's is just about halfway/halfway between the middle and the end.
Ayu's arc can be wrapped up in 1 full episode, except it looks like they're going for a 50/50 approach from now on. Thus I expect that the first half of the next episode will be Nayuki-focused, while the second half will be Ayu-focused. And episode 23 will be the reverse of that for a complete wrap up of both arcs.
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Old 2007-02-24, 12:32   Link #95
White Manju Bun
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I cant even type.....even though it had been foreshadowed for a while I still was shocked...KyoAni is awesome....
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Old 2007-02-24, 12:33   Link #96
Sai the Dreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

Spoiler for answer to the riddle:


Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire.
Not at all. Kyon's face was like, "I just ate something sour." Whereas Nayuki's face wasn't.

Besides, there are only so many ways you can portray a surprised face.
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Old 2007-02-24, 12:45   Link #97
Matt Soulblade
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Wow. I mean, it was totally, absolutely predictable, but still it was so damn shocking, it lets you speechless.

Were close to the ending! Wonder if its a Ayu ending (the "true" ending) or a Nayuki ending what we will get? The wait sucks :P
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Old 2007-02-24, 13:09   Link #98
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Wait, 3 episodes left? So 26 episodes was just a rumor after all??

*gets hit by Mai's sword for asking a (I asuume) repetitve question*
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Old 2007-02-24, 13:18   Link #99
Kisuke06
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Damn, the accident was indeed predictable, but I thought it was very shocking. I too was stunned for a couple of seconds, after the accident I had to go back some seconds in the episode and see that again. Poor Akiko-san...

Oh, and I'm rooting for a Nayuki ending. =P
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Old 2007-02-24, 13:21   Link #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
well things are definatly in motion now...with yuuichi remembering that a terrible person he is and now this hits his head i only wonder how much more trauma his soul can take
Well, we'll find out when that last piece of his forgotten memory gets remembered...

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