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Old 2007-03-03, 16:13   Link #261
Hunter
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Originally Posted by ShurikenJay View Post
I It's not still there as far as I can tell. In every scene after Kakashi used the evil supressor seal we see its design around Oro's curse seal.

It's not there anymore.
Kakashi's seal is visible on Sasuke's shoulder chapter 342.
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:14   Link #262
gibits
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Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post
I don't know why everyone's screeming plot hole before the fight's even finished. For the first thing Anko had the curse seal for a LONG time. That's a lot different than using it (sparingly) for only 2.5 years. Pluss Sasuke has resisted the curse seal effects twice before. So far NO ONE else has done so. In addition Kakashi put the limiter on the seal. That means that it gives Sasuke more control over it. Oro thought it was uselsess cuz sasuke would want to use power, but it's still there and it's doin somethin. ..
The sound 5 said in no uncertain terms that the more you use it the less free will you will have. Also CS2 will enrouch your body at a faster rate. The original scope of the CS was to cause extreme pain when molding chakra and forcably extract chakra from your body (IIRC by converting emotions to power; like hate and vengence to chakra). Kishi conveniently gets rid of the "cursed" part of the cursed seal (the pain) after the Chuunin arc. Sure say what you want about Kakashi's evil sealing jutsu to allow Sasuke to control the CS. But what about the Sound 5? They could mold chakra without the "cursed part also......

Of course they still have no free will as a price for power, Kishi has overridden his own rules again.....

As far as we know Anko almost never uses CS, yet she was brought to her knees. Sasuke already using the CS, should be even more at Oro's mercy while its on (like in this chapter).
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:22   Link #263
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Even after killing the man who killed Sandaime? Not to mention the possibility of breeding a whole new clan of Sharingan wielders to add to the Leaf's arsenal? Along what I'm sure will be a vehement plea from Naruto to Tsunade in favor of Sasuke's return?

I'm not saying I like it, but I can see it happening.
Yup. I'm the same way; I can see it happening. If it were up to me, once a traitor always a traitor.

Power rankings in this universe are stupid. Everybody is confused. Remember how for a long time sasuke thought he was way better than naruto but only to discover he wasn't? remember how naruto was so stunned at sasuke's improvements in the final chuunin exam battle, yet really sasuke hadn't really gained all that much? What about all the stuff said by jiraiya, oro, itachi, kisame, etc? And naruto knocking off a weakened akatsuki by himself or shika knocking off Hidan (which to me was like no way, super stretching it). I think I can go as far as to say that If kishi so deems it, he can write up situations where anybody can beat anybody.

If you ask me, there is no way that in 3 years sasuke accomplished all the learning that oro did in 50 years. Just no freaking way, and this isn't a knock on sasuke being stupid or anything. This is just saying its impossible to really condense 50 years of technique learning to just 3. All said and done, I'm just not really fully sold on this sasuke-chan; maybe when he starts to show real mastery of the sharingan I'll begin to think it over.
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:29   Link #264
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Just read the transleation of the chapter, and one thing is bothering me...
Did Sarutobi just say to Oro that he MIGHT meet his parents again? Am I reading this right??
The translation iv got goes -
Sarutobi - "The fact that you've found it by your parents grave must be a sign... perhaps theyve been reborn into new bodies, so that someday, when you're grown up, they can see you again."
Oro - "Whens that gonna be?"
Sarutobi - "I'm afraid I dont know that either."

So, is this saying that we might see Oro's parents? Surely saying something like that in the manga wont just be symbolic....

Apologies if this has been brought up already, i havnt looked back through the forum.
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:30   Link #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay29 View Post
Just read the transleation of the chapter, and one thing is bothering me...
Did Sarutobi just say to Oro that he MIGHT meet his parents again? Am I reading this right??
The translation iv got goes -
Sarutobi - "The fact that you've found it by your parents grave must be a sign... perhaps theyve been reborn into new bodies, so that someday, when you're grown up, they can see you again."
Oro - "Whens that gonna be?"
Sarutobi - "I'm afraid I dont know that either."

So, is this saying that we might see Oro's parents? Surely saying something like that in the manga wont just be symbolic....

Apologies if this has been brought up already, i havnt looked back through the forum.
It sounds like a teacher trying to comfort his orphaned student to me.
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:33   Link #266
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Originally Posted by Ashura3 View Post
It sounds like a teacher trying to comfort his orphaned student to me.
So why show it.....
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:41   Link #267
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It explains Oro's choice to be a white snake. And perhaps, in a twisted away, reinforces Orochimaru's hate for Sarutobi. The man told him that he would meet his parents again and it probably never happened.
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:44   Link #268
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i think oro might just steal kabutos body at the last second and escape, either that or sasuke will kill oro and manage to gain MS or better yet, he already has MS and uses it on Oro to show his power
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Old 2007-03-03, 16:48   Link #269
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Originally Posted by Ashura3 View Post
It explains Oro's choice to be a white snake. And perhaps, in a twisted away, reinforces Orochimaru's hate for Sarutobi. The man told him that he would meet his parents again and it probably never happened.
Fair point.
I thought Oro's hatred for Sarutobi was because he didnt pick Oro to be the next Hokage cafter him...
And Oro already looked pretty snake-y when he was a kid, so I just presumed the whole snake-frog-slug thing with the sannin was just a natural affinity as opposed to a "choice"....
Has there actually been an explaination for the summons, as in do you get to pick?
Coz Naruto only summons frogs because Jiraiya can, therefore Naruto's choice was frogs or nothing....
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Old 2007-03-03, 17:05   Link #270
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Originally Posted by ajay29 View Post
Fair point.
I thought Oro's hatred for Sarutobi was because he didnt pick Oro to be the next Hokage cafter him...
And Oro already looked pretty snake-y when he was a kid, so I just presumed the whole snake-frog-slug thing with the sannin was just a natural affinity as opposed to a "choice"....
Has there actually been an explaination for the summons, as in do you get to pick?
Coz Naruto only summons frogs because Jiraiya can, therefore Naruto's choice was frogs or nothing....
There can be more than one reason to hate someone. And look at the last page of the chapter:



Aside from his eyes and what I assume to be pale skin, there's really nothing that makes him seem snake-like to me. Even the older Orochimaru doesn't physically resemble a snake. Rather, it's his abilities that are snake-like (his tongue, his summons, his ninjutsu). The only noticeable thing about Oro as a youth that I see are the markings around his eyes, and plenty of characters have something on their faces to make them unique (itachi, sarutobi, kiba).

So I'd hazard a guess that Oro chose snakes as his symbol, specifically because of this event. Ironic really, as it gives Sarutobi an even greater role in creating the man who is Orochimaru today.

And no, we're still clueless about everything when it comes to summons.
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Old 2007-03-03, 17:08   Link #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Kakashi's seal is visible on Sasuke's shoulder chapter 342.
On the last page where he is resting on a ninja after beating the army?

The image is drawn from top view and from that distance the seal is crudely drawn.

I'm not so sure that the evil supressor seal is present. When he encounters Team Kakashi for the first time since the timeskip Kakashi's seal is no where to be found.

Spoiler for No Evil Supressor Seal:



Now I know that is not the best angle either but Kakashi's seal has a distinct pattern. There are other images where Sasuke is present and you can see atleast one of the tear drops from Oro's seal but none of the pattern for Kakashi's.

Previously Kishi made sure to have Kakashi's seal in every panel where Sasuke's shoulder was exposed.

Spoiler for Evil Supressor Seal:
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Old 2007-03-03, 17:19   Link #272
Ashura3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay View Post
On the last page where he is resting on a ninja after beating the army?

The image is drawn from top view and from that distance the seal is crudely drawn.
You're looking at a low quality image.

Look here:

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Old 2007-03-03, 17:38   Link #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay View Post
On the last page where he is resting on a ninja after beating the army?

The image is drawn from top view and from that distance the seal is crudely drawn.

I'm not so sure that the evil supressor seal is present. When he encounters Team Kakashi for the first time since the timeskip Kakashi's seal is no where to be found.
You are not sure that the circle around the CS is Kakashi's seal that is meant to circle around the CS? Kakashi's seal is also showed p6.
But yes Kakashi seal isn't showed chapter 307 & 308, one out of many little mistakes one way or the other. I'm just saying we can't say Orochimaru got ride of this seal since we saw it at time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate
Power rankings in this universe are stupid. Everybody is confused. Remember how for a long time sasuke thought he was way better than naruto but only to discover he wasn't? remember how naruto was so stunned at sasuke's improvements in the final chuunin exam battle, yet really sasuke hadn't really gained all that much? What about all the stuff said by jiraiya, oro, itachi, kisame, etc? And naruto knocking off a weakened akatsuki by himself or shika knocking off Hidan (which to me was like no way, super stretching it). I think I can go as far as to say that If kishi so deems it, he can write up situations where anybody can beat anybody.
Maybe because for a long time Sasuke was way better than Naruto until it wasn't the case anymore? Maybe Naruto was stunned because Sasuke gained Lee's speed (like 20 fold faster or something?)+ Chidori in two weeks? What stuff?

Did someone really ignored than Naruto and Sasuke were going to surpass anyone eventually? Well this is the 38th volumes of Naruto and eventually is now, that's all.
I mean what did you expect? Tsunade and Jiraiya taking care of Akatsuki while the new generation was merely watching in awe until the end?
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Old 2007-03-03, 18:21   Link #274
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The same who thought Sasuke had no chance to stand up against a Kyubified Naruto at the GotE maybe? And they were delusional, just like anyone thinking that Naruto will not be able to stand against anything Sasuke will show now.
Delusional is a strong word. Hunter, I'm speaking only for myself here, but I'm not saying that Naruto will not have counters for what Sasuke may bring. What I AM saying is that the difference between the two characters could have been handled a bit better, IMO.

I was for the time skip while some were against it. At this point, I am a little embarrassed to admit that I was Pro-Skip. All this time skip brought us is the same exact ratio of power between Naruto and Sasuke.

Sasuke was a little more skilled than Naruto at the GOTE, but what Sasuke had in technique, Naruto had covered in brute strength and stamina. I feel it's the same instance here. Both are smarter than 3 years ago; however what we have now is the same ratio to measure them in terms of strength: what Sasuke has in technique, Naruto can rival with stamina and strength. I mean, I know history repeats itself, but to this extent in the manga is a little on the ridiculous side. Naruto, in his "supposed" character trait way is slowly and clumsily growing in strength by learning techniques that he's too dumb to understand. And Naruto is my favorite character next to Shino.

But that's why I am enjoying Sasuke's reign of terror, the more Sasuke owns, the more we can determine Naruto's strength. I just wish for once that Naruto was more pretty-boyish with his techniques and not flat out "divide and conquer..." LITERALLY!
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Old 2007-03-03, 18:40   Link #275
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Here's that peek at Sasuke CS2 form.

Spoiler for Sasuke Cursed Seal lvl2:
I forgot how ridiculous his CS2 form looked...

Quote:
We see how strong ninja who are actually human can destroy monsters all the way in Naruto:

- demon containers losing agains akatsuki
The Akatsuki members we've seen defeat jinchuriki can barely be called "human"...
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Old 2007-03-03, 18:48   Link #276
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Well ok delusional is maybe a bit too strong of a word here but come on the opposite had no chance of happening really.
What you are talking about isn't my point at all, in fact I wholy agree that Kishimoto could have showed the last events better than he did.
I complained about the way he handled Naruto's fight with Kakuzu and once this fight is finished you will most probably have the pleasure to read new complain from me about what happened (I already started for a few thing but I'm waiting for the end of the fight to be sure).

But that would be whining about details, not "OMG how come Sasuke is strong enough to fight Orochimaru?!?!? He shouldn't!!"
Because that's stupid, it was bound to happen.
By beating Kakuzu and surpassing Kakashi Naruto is already among the top 15 ninja in the world at least whereas if Sasuke's actions follow his words he's probably already in the top 5... Which is exactly where Naruto will be at the end of his training and a few fight to display his strength.

Just same old same old, Sasuke will most probably be shown as better than Naruto until he eats the ground either against an opponent that Naruto will beat or against Naruto himself directly.
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Old 2007-03-03, 18:54   Link #277
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My complaint isn't that the growth happened but that it happened so quickly. Boggles my mind that these teenagers (that's all they are really) are on their way to surpass the greats of the ninja world.
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Old 2007-03-03, 18:58   Link #278
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This is a Magical Teenager Fighting Shounen, you expected them to get super strong in their late 20s?
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Old 2007-03-03, 19:06   Link #279
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A mixture between hoped and expected, I admit.

I guess Kakashi's quote to Team 7 from the very beginning really didn't hit me till now.

"There are kids your age who are stronger than me" or something to that effect.

I only hope, for the quote's continuity's sake, that some bratty 12 year old comes and kicks Sasuke/Naruto's ass.

And to address the shonen manga comment, Hikaru no Go was a shonen manga who's pacing, growth and development made sense and I enjoyed. This was an exception to the rule I suppose, but I had hopes for Naruto to be somewhat similar.
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Old 2007-03-03, 19:09   Link #280
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
This is a Magical Teenager Fighting Shounen, you expected them to get super strong in their late 20s?
LMAO. That's funny! There's nothing spectacular about a 55 year old genin either.
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