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Old 2009-09-08, 13:02   Link #81
DJLowrider
Ahou ga
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujubee View Post
How can you abandon someone who loved you, fed and took care of you, lived with you and above all made you their reason for living? That's so not right I have trouble believing it.
I guess according to you, then, nobody should ever leave their parents' home. After all, parents love, feed, care for and live with you and most certainly make you their reason for living for at least 18 years.

Love is not logical, period. There is no precise process or set of criteria that automatically and without fail lead to a relationship. So saying that Kaede had all these points and qualities that clearly made her the only logical choice to be Rin's girlfriend is irrelevant.

Love (or at least real love IMHO) is unconditional. It comes with no strings attached. Any relationship with Kaede for Rin would have been totally conditional. She wanted him at the center of her perfect little universe and if he so much as breathed without her help it was tragic. The whole concept of co-dependency as the core of a relationship, quite frankly, disgusts me. People in a relationship rely on each other yes, but in a healthy relationship people also still retain a sense of individuality. Kaede had no concept of herself aside from being Rin's doormat. All of this is also not to mention that any relationship with her would have never helped her truly reconcile with her mother's death or with everything she did to Rin as a child. They were merely maintaining the status quo, never going forwards or backwards. That's no kind of life and that's no kind of real love.

Yes, Rin did not handle the situation with her as well as he could have. He openly admits as much to everyone. But at least he had the gumption to do it instead of just falling back to the same crap that had gotten them into that situation in the first place. It would have been even more unconscionable and disappointing had he caved.

Asa never once overtly demanded Rin's attention. She never tried to be anything more to him than a friend. Their romance and love simply sprang from that, and that's as genuine as you can get when it comes to love. Believe me, I speak from personal experience there.

You say it's unthinkable for Rin to "abandon" Kaede? I say it's unthinkable for him not to leave her, and not because of Asa's situation with her health.
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Old 2009-09-08, 22:27   Link #82
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJLowrider View Post
I guess according to you, then, nobody should ever leave their parents' home. After all, parents love, feed, care for and live with you and most certainly make you their reason for living for at least 18 years.

Love is not logical, period. There is no precise process or set of criteria that automatically and without fail lead to a relationship. So saying that Kaede had all these points and qualities that clearly made her the only logical choice to be Rin's girlfriend is irrelevant.

Love (or at least real love IMHO) is unconditional. It comes with no strings attached. Any relationship with Kaede for Rin would have been totally conditional. She wanted him at the center of her perfect little universe and if he so much as breathed without her help it was tragic. The whole concept of co-dependency as the core of a relationship, quite frankly, disgusts me. People in a relationship rely on each other yes, but in a healthy relationship people also still retain a sense of individuality. Kaede had no concept of herself aside from being Rin's doormat. All of this is also not to mention that any relationship with her would have never helped her truly reconcile with her mother's death or with everything she did to Rin as a child. They were merely maintaining the status quo, never going forwards or backwards. That's no kind of life and that's no kind of real love.

Yes, Rin did not handle the situation with her as well as he could have. He openly admits as much to everyone. But at least he had the gumption to do it instead of just falling back to the same crap that had gotten them into that situation in the first place. It would have been even more unconscionable and disappointing had he caved.

Asa never once overtly demanded Rin's attention. She never tried to be anything more to him than a friend. Their romance and love simply sprang from that, and that's as genuine as you can get when it comes to love. Believe me, I speak from personal experience there.

You say it's unthinkable for Rin to "abandon" Kaede? I say it's unthinkable for him not to leave her, and not because of Asa's situation with her health.
Damn what an excellently worded post. Rep points for you my friend. You said exactly what I was thinking, though I couldn't have said anywhere near as eloquently as you did. Very well done.
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Old 2009-10-26, 02:39   Link #83
Altima of the Gates
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Sorry justin, I'm gonna have to burst this guy's bubble here. This may have looked like the perfect solution, but he's definitely conveniently skipped over some glaring problems here.
Quote:
You say it's unthinkable for Rin to "abandon" Kaede? I say it's unthinkable for him not to leave her, and not because of Asa's situation with her health.
Alright, in your oost you've admitted that Kaede is mentally ill and staying with her will only cause her to grasp tighter around her safety net of the 'status quo.' I think you're absolutely right, but you've conveniently glossed over one important point. You shouldn't leave a person in this mental state by themselves. He is damn lucky that she has presence of mind not to do anything drastic, and there isn't anything he could say afterward that would makes things alright if she did. There are so many ways this could have played out, and their is no excuse for the actions he took without seeking help for her. NONE.

I most certainly wouldn't accept any. If you truly beleive that this person you're living with happens to be mentally ill and you care even a little bit, then its time to get some balls and do something about it. Again, I'll accept that this might not be a worthwhile relationship to pursue at her frame of mind, but I'll be damned if I agree that it wasn't better to talk things over, and get some outside help instead of burying it. But that's the way I am, I'd much rather get this out in the open and let the wound heal naturally, instead of ignoring its still got a jagged piece of glass in it. All this situation showed to me was how incredibly unresourceful and unintelligent Rin was, and how quickly he wished to absolve himself of responsibility. Yeah, you'll bring up their past together, but that situation, and her father shares the blame too, was handled in an incredibly half-assed way. How long do you think keeping this ruse could've gone on for before she did something truly heinous? And it would be on both of their heads as well as hers. It was moronic, and the doctor who suggested such a treatment should have had his medical license revoked. But I'll chalk that up to the writer making her condition totally unrecoverable to that extent bad writing. Its ludicrous.

If he felt that she was an important part of his family, then don't wash your hands of it just because its a hard decision! So yeah, I think its unthinkable to leave her in the that state she's in, and again, he's very lucky that things ended as peacefully as they had. No excuses.

In fact I doubt he ever said these three choice words, "I forgive you."
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Old 2009-10-26, 07:22   Link #84
DJLowrider
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Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
You shouldn't leave a person in this mental state by themselves.
She wasn't alone, Primula was still there with her. And Nerine and Sia both live right next door to boot.

Plus, it's not like they, I dunno, are in the same class at school or anything like that..

So, yeah. Not alone. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:
There are so many ways this could have played out
And yet they didn't. So all your ranting here is pointless as far as I'm concerned. What you're delving into here is pure speculation that belongs in the realm of fanfiction. What I'm talking about is the canon of what actually happened in the series.
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Old 2009-10-26, 10:36   Link #85
Altima of the Gates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJLowrider View Post
She wasn't alone, Primula was still there with her. And Nerine and Sia both live right next door to boot.

Plus, it's not like they, I dunno, are in the same class at school or anything like that..

So, yeah. Not alone. Not by any stretch of the imagination.



And yet they didn't. So all your ranting here is pointless as far as I'm concerned. What you're delving into here is pure speculation that belongs in the realm of fanfiction. What I'm talking about is the canon of what actually happened in the series.
Thats great to have moral support, but obviously she needs more than that. Seriously, its troubling to think you would just absolve yourself of all responsibility in this situation and just decide, if she's got friends, she'll be fine soon enough. Quite naive and irresponsible. And excuse me if I make an assumption, but since you seem to have a general disdain for 'doormats" (Heh) then you seem to be more of a person who would leave her high and dry, which as I've said is irresponsible and rather cruel. Sir, I'd say you're lacking in compassion because of personal bias, which I have to say was laughable if yuo said you actually cared about said person.

Also:
So basically its ok to completely disregard my opinion. Sir, I have to say you're pretty narrow minded here. There isn't anything to talk about without speculation, and the story remains static otherwise. I see you smoothly ignored all of what I said just because 'it didn't happen that way.' That's why we have a character discussion, because we are discussing things about the character's circumstances, personality, and their life. If you find that to be pointless, well then, too bad.
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Old 2009-10-26, 11:42   Link #86
DJLowrider
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I'm sorry if this is somehow touching a raw nerve for you or if you have some kind of personal experience with something similar to this matter. My original post certainly was not intended to be so provocative.

However, I stand by my earlier comments and my original post. Nothing you've said is compelling enough to sway me simply based on the fact that all your scenarios are pure conjecture and did not actually happen in the series. It is patently impossible for any of us to say with any certainty how things might have turned out had the series been at all more realistic in the ways that you describe. Frankly, I think it would be a far less entertaining watch if it were. This is, after all, a harem series based on a fantastical world setting. This is not School Days, thank God.

I'm really not interested in continuing this matter any further. At least not until you're willing to tune down your rhetoric a bit and not resort to making judgments about my personal character based on, of all things, my view of one fictional character in an anime series. You really care way too much about this.
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Old 2009-10-27, 07:29   Link #87
Omeganian
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BTW, did Primula still live with Kaede after Rin left? Because that's one girl you don't want to live with a mentally unstable woman. She might get upset.
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Old 2009-10-27, 11:00   Link #88
DJLowrider
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Yup. In the anime Primula is shown continuing to live with Kaede after Rin left the house and she even begins to attend Verbena as well.
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Old 2009-10-29, 08:50   Link #89
Omeganian
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Yes. And she is shown blasting a room because she lost in a game. Oh, the sacred wisdom of Rin, it is so far beyond my understanding.
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Old 2009-12-08, 02:02   Link #90
Maiku-kun
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given her past actions towards Rin, its hard to feel bad for Kaede at first, she more than makes up for it by basically becoming his servant though, when things started to go south in kaedes head, Rin should have had the brains to see what was happening and he should have addressed it, instead, being the oblivious guy he sometimes is, he let it spin outta control which led to kaedes complete mental breakdown and complications between her and Asa, Kaede is both a perpetrator and a victim at the same time which is why her story keeps me interested and added to the greatness of this series
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Old 2009-12-08, 13:35   Link #91
Ricky Controversy
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Originally Posted by Maiku-kun View Post
given her past actions towards Rin, its hard to feel bad for Kaede at first, she more than makes up for it by basically becoming his servant though
This is actually part of the problem, though, isn't it? Certainly, from a 'kind deeds' vs. 'evil deeds' perspective, it seems like her servitude would outweigh her abuses, but that's not what really matters in this situation. Rin was naive--of course, he was a child, that comes with the territory--to come up with the sort of solution he did to Kaede's depression following her mother's death, but his desire was for her to live happily and guilt free. Unfortunately, she made her peace of mind conditional on servitude to Rin when she learned the truth of the situation, because it's far harder to do what was really necessary: forgive herself.

Perhaps her dedication to him makes her more sympathetic, but it doesn't really 'make up for' the difficulties of the past, it just covers them up for her.
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Old 2009-12-08, 15:34   Link #92
Maiku-kun
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hmm i guess i hadn't thought of it that way, i agree with your views on kaede more than the one i posted, i still dont agree with the way Rin handled Kaede when she broke down, he didnt handle it lol
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Old 2009-12-09, 01:22   Link #93
Omeganian
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Kaede has such a nice romance storyline in the game... and then this anime came.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:54   Link #94
The One and Only One
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I still don't get one thing after reading the entire thread. Why the heck are KKK members mad at Asa and Rin for? I thought that they should be happy that Rin has Asa now as Rin would no longer bug Kaede. From what I see, most are just talking as though they are Kaede herself, not KKK members. Here's a spoiler on what I thought that the KKK should have done

Spoiler for :


P.S. I LOVE Kaede and I am not from the AAA or KKK. I don't hate Asa enough to join a hate Asa club (KKK) even though I love Kaede
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Old 2010-01-02, 13:50   Link #95
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I still don't get one thing after reading the entire thread. Why the heck are KKK members mad at Asa and Rin for? I thought that they should be happy that Rin has Asa now as Rin would no longer bug Kaede. From what I see, most are just talking as though they are Kaede herself, not KKK members.
Because it became a rivalry, just like two competing sports teams from neighbouring towns. Supporting the one meant that you had to hate the other, even if that's not entirely logical. Plus, unlike the "KKK" members in the anime, most of the real-life fans didn't want to "keep Kaede for themselves", but they wanted her to be happy (and Rin being with Asa made Kaede cry/go crazy). Personally I thought the whole thing (including the way the anime writers messed up the game story) was rather stupid, but that's just me... In the end, it became one of the most defining aspects of the show.
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Old 2010-01-03, 00:43   Link #96
The One and Only One
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Because it became a rivalry, just like two competing sports teams from neighbouring towns. Supporting the one meant that you had to hate the other, even if that's not entirely logical. Plus, unlike the "KKK" members in the anime, most of the real-life fans didn't want to "keep Kaede for themselves", but they wanted her to be happy (and Rin being with Asa made Kaede cry/go crazy). Personally I thought the whole thing (including the way the anime writers messed up the game story) was rather stupid, but that's just me... In the end, it became one of the most defining aspects of the show.
Ah I see, but condemning Asa and Rin on forums or anywhere else isn't going to change Navel's mindset of changing who Rin wants to end up with. Actually I have the mindset of the anime's KKK, Though it's nearly impossible to find someone like Kaede in this world now
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Old 2010-01-03, 05:08   Link #97
Sian
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tried a mental ward?

*grins and flees*
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Old 2010-01-03, 09:46   Link #98
The One and Only One
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tried a mental ward?

*grins and flees*
hahas wth shes not crazy, go play the games and you'll know
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Old 2010-01-03, 10:28   Link #99
Sian
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i know she was ... 'overdone' in the Anime ... but that doesn't mean that she didn't have certain issues, that had to be handled, in the game (though none of them Yandere)
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Old 2010-01-03, 10:51   Link #100
Ricky Controversy
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i know she was ... 'overdone' in the Anime ... but that doesn't mean that she didn't have certain issues, that had to be handled, in the game (though none of them Yandere)
But then again, who didn't? That's supposed to be part of the fantasy: these girls have issues and are thus dependent upon the player for happiness.
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