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View Poll Results: Code Geass Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 73 57.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 23.44%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 11.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.91%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.78%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.78%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.78%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.78%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-03-02, 21:21   Link #101
Juvyniled
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Add to that the fact that Euphie's order wasn't really based on any kind of reasoning or principles. She told Suzaku to fight back because she got upset at Kallen insulting her, and knew Lelouch wasn't really going to shoot her. Is that really a good enough justification for Suzaku to (as far as he knows) endanger her life? He's a knight, not a robot - he should be expected to exercise some judgement.
Wow, I'm really sorry. I should've taken that into consideration. You know, hammer out the details. She's being held hostage and now shes telling me to retaliate. Now I should take my time to figure out WHY oh why she is telling me to attack when it MIGHT put her life in danger.

... it's not as if Euphemia isn't considering the situation as well. Note that I bolded that line. SHE got upset because of what Kallen said. It's not as if Euphie told Suzaku that. It's really like those situations in TV where somebody is disarming a bomb. The clock is ticking and if you don't make a decision, boom. Now you may reason, Suzaku isn't being rushed, he COULD just talk it out. But Euphemia made the call, and everyone was going to hear it. Think about the various responses that might evoke.
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Old 2007-03-02, 21:34   Link #102
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Guppy View Post
Yes, but I think the disagreement hinges on the relative importance of two of Suzaku's duties as a knight. Are they:

1) Keep the princess alive
2) Obey her orders

or:

1) Obey the princess's orders
2) Keep her alive?
Probably depends on the situation but in this case Euphie told Suzaku to disregard her safety so that makes "obey" the alpha priority. Afterall, it's his job to follow her orders (As Guilford would do for Cornelia)
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Old 2007-03-03, 01:20   Link #103
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btw i want to ask

why suzaku being arrested "again" (don't understand because watch the raw)

funny to see kallen told euphie who can't save herself
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Old 2007-03-03, 01:54   Link #104
Juvyniled
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why suzaku being arrested "again" (don't understand because watch the raw)
Somebody said that it was because he disobeyed orders when he dodged the beams. After he was Geassed, he moved away from the target zone.
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:10   Link #105
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Suzaku's orders were to hold Zero down so that he'll get obliterated (Which of course would kill Suzaku, they were essentially telling him to commit suicide)

Zero geassed him to "live" which Suzaku stated afterwards while under control and it was recorded.

So he's being arrested mainly for disobeying orders (Even though it was an order to commit suicide but nevertheless is still an order). Though he'll get left off the hook anyways since Schnizel hoped that he survived.
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:13   Link #106
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
Somebody said that it was because he disobeyed orders when he dodged the beams. After he was Geassed, he moved away from the target zone.
To be more specific, Suzaku was given the direct order to die with Zero. He disobeyed that order only because he was Geassed, but from his Superior's perspective Suzaku was just being an insubordinate coward who let Zero escape.

Suzaku was caught in a lose-lose Catch 22:
1. Disobey any direct order = treason = execution.
2. Suzaku was given order to die. Obey order means death. Survival means disobeying the order, which also means death.

Now you see why we all think Suzaku is insane in believing joining the Britannian military is a good idea?
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:55   Link #107
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Wow, it was a matter of time before KF's take the skies....

Everyone at the Black Knights will be surprised what Zero brought home.
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:58   Link #108
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that flashback of lulu and Euphemia make it seem lulu had something for her or am i just going crazy? cause looks like they holding hands.
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:59   Link #109
Juvyniled
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And yet luck would have it that Euphemia is by his side.

There has to be an explanation as to why Suzaku was ordered to die, even if it is very ruthless and/or irrational. He HAD Zero at gunpoint and could've pulled the trigger himself. (Unless of course I'm not seeing something, since I did not watch the raw)

Quote:
that flashback of lulu and Euphemia make it seem lulu had something for her or am i just going crazy? cause looks like they holding hands.
Couldn't it simply be sibling love? I mean they WERE raised as siblings.
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Old 2007-03-03, 03:02   Link #110
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that flashback of lulu and Euphemia make it seem lulu had something for her or am i just going crazy? cause looks like they holding hands.
Well, they're half-brother, half-sister and they spent a good part of their childhood together. And right now he had no reason to act ruthless on her as she's pretty much harmless and innocent. So why wouldn't he allow himself to revert to his erstwhile onii-san behavior, now that his identity has been revealed to his sibling? It's not like Euphemia was involved in Marianne's death and he had to pull a Zero on her.
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Old 2007-03-03, 03:19   Link #111
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
And yet luck would have it that Euphemia is by his side.

There has to be an explanation as to why Suzaku was ordered to die, even if it is very ruthless and/or irrational. He HAD Zero at gunpoint and could've pulled the trigger himself. (Unless of course I'm not seeing something, since I did not watch the raw)
Oh, I have no doubt Suzaku will survive this new court-case. It's only a question of how. Keep in mind that it appears Schneizel outranks Euphie and as such she couldn't cancel the order Suzaku received from him, even though for all intent and purposes Suzaku was HER knight not his. Compared to all of the other official heirs of the Emperor, Euphie just hasn't been taken seriously.

So, yeah... Euphie shouldn't have trouble saving Suzaku from this, unless either her father or Schneizel insisted otherwise.

As for having Zero at gunpoint? First, I don't think the military superiors knew the situation from the command center. Second, even if they know, the fact that Suzaku is surrounded by enemy forces means they can't assume Suzaku can't be overpowered. The only reason Suzaku didn't already die is because Zero refused to have him killed, and the Britannians don't know that.

*******
But all this has very little to do with what happened; Zero was indirectly saved because he was in Lancelot when Suzaku made his escape. This might be the real reason the military courts are so annoyed.
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Old 2007-03-03, 04:18   Link #112
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Bet Schniezel lets his guys try and kill off Suzaku a few more times. How many times before Schniezel x Cecile gets quashed? My first bet will be on at least twice more.

if they can't kill off Suzaku, they can do us a favor and at least break his jaw. He's been in fine lecturing mode last few eps. a few eps of him not opening his mouth would be nice.

Suzaku revealing he killed his father, was that in any way a side effect of the geass? "Live" perhaps means getting on with life, as opposed to not just dying.
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Old 2007-03-03, 04:34   Link #113
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
*******
But all this has very little to do with what happened; Zero was indirectly saved because he was in Lancelot when Suzaku made his escape. This might be the real reason the military courts are so annoyed.
erm isnt that the only reason as to why suzaku is accused of being a traitor? no actually the side reason could also be that suzaku saved his own ass instead of dying with honor...but do they even know that zero was in suzaku's frame in the first place? O.o
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Old 2007-03-03, 04:53   Link #114
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Hmm...For all that happy reunion Lelouch and Euphie got themselves into, I wonder how Euphie will react when she starts to realise once again that it was the same cheerful and caring Lelouch who shot Clovis, even with a dash of revulsion at his own actions. Something I would like to imagine together with Cornelia's reaction if she realises the very person she has outclassed and has been outclassed before was her own brother.

And I have to pity Suzaku this time. He's really in a lose-lose situation. If he dies, he won't be able to accomplish his goal by himself. If he doesn't, he's disobeying orders. I have a feeling the GEASS was done to save Lelouch's own ass as well as Suzaku's, for whatever purpose he has in mind.
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Old 2007-03-03, 04:58   Link #115
Renegade334
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erm isnt that the only reason as to why suzaku is accused of being a traitor? no actually the side reason could also be that suzaku saved his own ass instead of dying with honor...but do they even know that zero was in suzaku's frame in the first place? O.o
Well, Suzaku was ordered to make sure Zero remained in the Avalon's line of fire. That's the crux of the problem. Running away meant that the target could also leave the premises and hide away...therefore tearing to shreds one of the rare (well, that's debatable, but let's put it as that for the time being) opportunities to gun Public Enemy #1 down.

Also, directly disobeying a superior's orders and flying them back in his face is blatant show of insubordination. When you add the fact that Zero is a regicide, it counts as first class offence: (indirectly) aiding an enemy of the throne. And when it is confirmed that Zero survived and even took advantage of his situation to steal a prototype KF laden with top secret technology, you find yourself in a bubbling cauldron of sh1t.

I'm not sure they knew Zero was inside the Lancelot. But Suzaku was meant to keep him in place and he failed at that. Not to mention that his Geass-induced reply displayed unmistakable disobedience --> his loyalties become questionable.
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Old 2007-03-03, 05:07   Link #116
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good job 'walking your path' suzaku, i guess nothing beats getting into military trials when it comes to 'working within the system.'
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Old 2007-03-03, 06:16   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny View Post
And I have to pity Suzaku this time. He's really in a lose-lose situation. If he dies, he won't be able to accomplish his goal by himself. If he doesn't, he's disobeying orders. I have a feeling the GEASS was done to save Lelouch's own ass as well as Suzaku's, for whatever purpose he has in mind.
I am not sure pity is the right word...
As Zero found out, Suzaku didn't have any issue with following the orders to die. As it was mentioned by interviews from the production staff, Suzaku isn't so much interested in changing Britannia as much as he wanted to die trying. Sure, Suzaku can't save anyone if he dies, but as we finally see, he prefers to fail through death. Death is the ultimate escape of responsibilities, and Suzaku is looking forward to it rather than the hard years of trying to bring peace to the world.

So no, I don't pity him. I just think he is a suicidal idiot.

Another reason I don't pity him is because he will survive. But for every time he gets back to the court room, Suzaku's political aspirations will move ever further away from him. Euphie better get some serious political muscle on her own, because at this rate Suzaku will soon turn more into a burden than he is worth.
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Old 2007-03-03, 06:52   Link #118
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am not sure pity is the right word...
As Zero found out, Suzaku didn't have any issue with following the orders to die. As it was mentioned by interviews from the production staff, Suzaku isn't so much interested in changing Britannia as much as he wanted to die trying. Sure, Suzaku can't save anyone if he dies, but as we finally see, he prefers to fail through death. Death is the ultimate escape of responsibilities, and Suzaku is looking forward to it rather than the hard years of trying to bring peace to the world.
Case of trying to do the right things in the wrong ways?

Note I used 'pity', not 'sympathise with'. Everything he's been doing has a dual purpose, one of them being to save Japan as he sees it and the other to atone for the patricide he committed those years back. It didn't just weigh on his conscience that he killed his father: With that one stab, Genbu's reputation might as well be thrown into a s**thole for all its worth. If he wants to die, though, then I'm going to have some serious reconsidering to do about even having the slightest vestiges of liking his character, which is something that probably would not happen, since Lady Luck happens to favour him somehow, just as she did with Lelouch at times.

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Another reason I don't pity him is because he will survive. But for every time he gets back to the court room, Suzaku's political aspirations will move ever further away from him. Euphie better get some serious political muscle on her own, because at this rate Suzaku will soon turn more into a burden than he is worth.
Perhaps, though I doubt Euphie might find a more like-minded person than him (save for whatever suicidal tendencies, mind you) in regards to how Britannia is being governed and how discriminations come about, a trait disturbingly similar to the White Man's burden IMO. Both seem keen on breaking that and changing Britannia from within, though even as we speak, it will seem all the more absurd if they just promote him AGAIN after this little farce-ified trial to give him some leverage just to be on the same level on Lelouch in terms of how close they are to their goals.
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Old 2007-03-03, 07:47   Link #119
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good job 'walking your path' suzaku, i guess nothing beats getting into military trials when it comes to 'working within the system.'

i guess Suzaku's path will be a prime example on how not to "change the system from within"

Quote:
As Zero found out, Suzaku didn't have any issue with following the orders to die. As it was mentioned by interviews from the production staff, Suzaku isn't so much interested in changing Britannia as much as he wanted to die trying. Sure, Suzaku can't save anyone if he dies, but as we finally see, he prefers to fail through death. Death is the ultimate escape of responsibilities, and Suzaku is looking forward to it rather than the hard years of trying to bring peace to the world.
Then what was the purpose of all those seminars that he gave on changing the system from within? don't tell me that he just wanted to hear his own voice good thing i started to FF when he was starting to Lecture
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Old 2007-03-03, 07:54   Link #120
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by 0rphen21 View Post
i guess Suzaku's path will be a prime example on how not to "change the system from within"
The ironic thing is, Suzaku has been trying his hardest to obey every command given, but he still manages to be court-marshaled TWICE.

Now, we know in both cases it isn't his fault. But what does it look like from someone watching the news on TV? As I mentioned in the past, Suzaku is getting all the wrong kinds of fame right now.

And if Euphie let him off the hook, it would look even worse; If she was to save him with only her influence alone (i.e. pardoning without proving Suzaku is innocent) , it could be damaging to Euphie as well. The last time Suzaku got out of it was because Zero made a live-TV confession. I doubt this time, Lulu would be prepared to admit the existence of his superpower to his enemies to save Suzaku. (the only way to prove Suzaku is innocent is if Lulu let the existence of Geass itself become known)
The price is just too high.

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Then what was the purpose of all those seminars that he gave on changing the system from within? don't tell me that he just wanted to hear his own voice
It's not that he WANT to change the system, but that he had to. In his mind, Suzaku believe himself to be an ally of Justice. The loophole, is that Suzaku will never need to find out if the long and bumpy path he took for peace can get anywhere, as long as he died first.
It's essentially "I am taking steps towards peace, but dying in the attempt is easier than succeeding, so I will take the easy way out. And since I died for a good cause I am a good guy, right?"
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