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Old 2007-03-01, 15:51   Link #1
Zero system
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[manga] who is the strongest espada

I am still wondering who could be the strongest espada, somwhat I am still not convinced that Noitora is the "strongest" espada.

He did state that he was the strongest but he never said that he was espada number 1, so far all of the espada(exept ulquiora, wich is what leads me to believe its him) have proudly stated, "I am espada nuber X" as if they were proud of their number

but in Noitora's case it seems to me that he may be number two, second to ulquiora, but dosent understand why Aizen put him in second as he thinks himselfe better than ulquiora.

Also Ulquiora seems to be the only one to be given "special assignments" as to kidnap orihime (Luppi was not even aware that their fight was only to be used as leverage to convince her to come quietly) and to take care of her.

he seems to knwo about what aizen is planing, unlike other espada(grimm wanted to kill all of the hight spirit powers in karakura town but, aizen's plan involved a lot of high spirit ppl, clearly he doesnt know about the plan)

but some things tends to make us think that he is not that strong, like when he first appeared he said that ichigo's powers was fluctuating, at its low's it was unstable but at it's high's it was greater than his.

my 2 cents
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Old 2007-03-02, 08:28   Link #2
Sabaku Kyu
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Hmmm. At this point, since we know the strength of a couple of Espada, we can make some speculation on their exact rankings. Let's start out with the Espada who's rank we do know

Yami-10th
Arroniro/Kaien-9th
Zaera Polo Grantz-8th
Grimmjow Jaggerjack-6th

So most of the lower ranked Espada have been revealed except for No.7. Here are my guesses for the ranks of the rest along with the explanations

7th -the muscular, black Espada: In Shounen, the extremely musclebound, bigger guys are generally weaker than the smaller warriors. Bleach seems to follow this formula. Jidanbou who was about 20' tall, was the weakest opponent Ichigo had to fight in SS. Yami, who is also abnormally big is also the weakest Espada. In his picture, the African Espada doesn't look monstrously big, but I'm willing to bet he's still in the lower tier due to his size.

5th - the old man Espada: Old-looking guys are usually pretty strong (Yama-ji) but I don't think he's in the top 3. He appears to be kind of short and squat (not much of a reason to exclude him, but the strongest villains never seem to be short)

4th- the female Espada: She's hot, but let's face it, female characters are never the strongest in Bleach.

3rd - Noitora: Just the fact that he claimed himself to be the strongest means he's not. But he must be high in the ranks to have the ambition to think he's the strongest.

2nd - Ulquorria: Ulq is heavily hinted to be vastrolorde and seems to be Aizen's go-to-guy. I orginally believed him to be no.1 but I have a hard time imagining that the strongest Espada would be introduced so early, even though we haven't seen many of his abilities.

1st - sleepy looking Epada: As a general trend, the more bored, disinterested or sleepy a guy looks in manga the stronger they are. This guy looks like he rather be napping than attending Aizen's meetings and doesn't seemed to be impressed at all by what's going on. He also appears to be completely normal in terms of appearance, another possible indicator that he's really strong.

Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2007-03-02 at 10:29.
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Old 2007-03-02, 12:28   Link #3
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I always thought they were seated in their ranking order (left side of the table = 1-5, right side = 6-10), which would have made Ulquiorra 1st (plausible), Grimmjow 6th (fact), Appolocrap 8th (now proven fact) and Yammi 10th (fact), but Kaien being 9th instead of 5th ruins the theory.

I mostly agree with Sabaku Kyu, but I am keeping Ulquiorra first. Noitora is HM's Kenpachi. A hell of a fighter, living to fight (but not against small fries) and pretending to be the strongest as long as he keeps winning. Too bad for him he isn't allowed to fight his fellow espadas.
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Old 2007-03-02, 19:02   Link #4
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I agree with Kyu mostly Though I think Old Fart deserves to be in top 3 . For Winter war Aizen is most likely going to create perfect Espada so the bottom 5 maybe elimnated . Noitura has to be close to Ulqi in strength . He is one of the few Espada who disresepects Ulqi , he doesnt fear him . SO this arc bottom 5 are going to be introduced with Noitora as an exception
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Old 2007-03-02, 21:49   Link #5
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id guess ulqi to be number 1, it will be all the more dramatic one he gets beat seeing as weve seen him since the start and he has so much involvement with the main characters.

i hope mister sleepy isnt number one, though he is likely in the top 4 or 3.
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Old 2007-03-04, 06:15   Link #6
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Frankly, now that I think about it, didn't Kubo just create another plot hole with the insertion of Luppi into Espada?

Previously, when Grim was 6, then Luppi should be 7, and that makes Zaera 9, and Kaien 10. This means that Yammy was not an Espada, but when his hand was fixed back, the way Ulqiourra mentioned that if he lost it like Grim, he too would've been kicked out of the Espada means he was and is Espada 10, before and after Grim lost his arm/ousted from Espada. So, unless there was some internal power shuffle concerning Zaera, Kaien, etc, there's technically no way that Yammy would've been no.10. WTF THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
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Old 2007-03-04, 07:02   Link #7
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... they are numbered in strength for your convenience...

while it's certainly possible for a "weaker" espada to defeat a stronger one at least the general strength is presented to us.
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Old 2007-03-04, 09:53   Link #8
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its possible that since it would be too big of a hassle to change the numbers, luppi was just a random arrancar pulled from somewhere.

So thats interesting, the common consensus is that noitora is just another kenpachi, a most powerful wannabe, but in reality far from it.
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Old 2007-03-04, 16:40   Link #9
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IMHO they are numbered hapazardly somewhat like the Divisions in Sendai no Gotei Soi Fong is not the second strongest Taicho but she is head of 2nd Div
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Old 2007-03-04, 17:38   Link #10
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Noitorra mentioned that It would be meaningless to kill people that are weak..(aka chad) because it does not prove he is the strongest.

Therefore, we can safely assume that he IS NOT the strongest but he believes he is.
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Old 2007-03-04, 19:29   Link #11
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Personally I'd say Ulquiorra is number 5 or number 4. After seeing the recent episodes, Grimmjaw (6) speaks pretty rude to him, which makes me think, that they can't really be far from each other, concerning the power level. I don't think he would talk this way to the numbers above 4.
Grimmjow speaks rude to everyone except Aizen and even around Aizen he speaks in a tone that none of the other Espada would dare use. Still, the Espada aren't very formal in how they speak among themselves. Yami has mouthed off at Grimm, Noi argued with the female Espada during the meeting and then teased Ulq when he was leaving Orihime's chambers. It's kind of hard determining the ranks just by seeing how the Espada interact with each other, especially Noitora and Grimmjow.
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Old 2007-03-04, 19:44   Link #12
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Though I personally belive Noi isnt in the top 3 I think he maybe in the top 5 .

As Kyu said Espada are not formal or honorific with each other . They do respect authority or orders . GJ doesnt respect Ulqi , but fears him . This can be used as a guaging for power diffrence . Why would you listen to somone who is weaker than you . In Shinji Vs GJ , GJ was a wounded beast with a blood lust If Ulqi wasnt stronger than him he would have resisted Ulqi . But Noi doesnt fear Ulqi he may be close to Ulqi level .

IMO The bottom 5 Espada are going to be introduced in this arc , but Noi stands out . During Winter War the First 5/3 Espada will be very much a part of Perfected Espada . If Noi is in bottom 5 ie 7 I think that chracter will still survive after Ichi .
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Old 2007-03-04, 21:51   Link #13
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IMO The bottom 5 Espada are going to be introduced in this arc , but Noi stands out . During Winter War the First 5/3 Espada will be very much a part of Perfected Espada . If Noi is in bottom 5 ie 7 I think that chracter will still survive after Ichi .[/FONT]
"Perfected Espada" you say? Maybe this is where Wonderweiss comes in. He hasn't been getting much focus since his scuffle with Urahara, but I get the feeling he will be extremely strong once he fights seriously, perhaps stronger than any Espada. For whatever reason, Aizen seems to be reserving him for something and left him under Tousen's care. If there is a new type of arrancar that Aizen plans to use for the Winter War, maybe Wonderweiss is the first of the bunch.
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Old 2007-03-04, 22:24   Link #14
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I really dont know your post was crack intended or serious regarding Wonderweiss ( Crack ) .Perfected espada I didnt say it It was said by Aizen to Gin in chapter 213 pg 19 . The exact wordings were

Once we've assembled the Vastorodes and Perfected the Espada .

At that point of time current Espada were already created and Ulqi Grim and Yami had made apperances . I do belive the top 3 or a max the top 5 ( higly unlikely ) are Vastorde class and they will be assimlated in the so called Perfected Espada
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Old 2007-03-04, 23:29   Link #15
Sabaku Kyu
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I really dont know your post was crack intended or serious regarding Wonderweiss ( Crack ) .Perfected espada I didnt say it It was said by Aizen to Gin in chapter 213 pg 19 . The exact wordings were

Once we've assembled the Vastorodes and Perfected the Espada .

At that point of time current Espada were already created and Ulqi Grim and Yami had made apperances . I do belive the top 3 or a max the top 5 ( higly unlikely ) are Vastorde class and they will be assimlated in the so called Perfected Espada

I knew what you were referencing, you just caught my interest. My post might have been misleading. When I said "new type of arrancar" I meant "arrancarized vastorode", but it is true that some of the current Espada are most likely already vastorodes so that wouldn't make Wonderweiss the first. We don't even know what his menos class was so he might not even be a vastorode, but I'm leaning towards the inclination that he is one. I wasn't making a crack about his power level either. He's got to be strong if he was able to take Urahara by surprise like that even if he didn't harm him. And I don't think that Aizen would bother using the Hyogoku's power again unless the arrancar he was creating was extremely powerful.
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Old 2007-03-04, 23:30   Link #16
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Maybe Ulquiorra isn't actually a normal Espada, stay with me here, because if as someone said Luppi was number 7 then that means that there are 11 Espada. WHICH DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. So maybe Noitara is number 1 and Ulquiorra is considered something higher, like Gin and Tousen are.
I base this on nothing, just gives you something more to ponder on.
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Old 2007-03-04, 23:37   Link #17
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I do remember Urahara being caught off gaurd at Wonderweiss's counter attack and he had a similar reaction to Ulqi when he negated Benihime . But Wonderweiss lacks that killer instinct he was traumatized by death of Luppi .

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Old 2007-03-04, 23:41   Link #18
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its possible but based on the 10 seats + aizen during the espada tea time it seems like there are 10 espada and ulqi is one of them.

luppi seems like he was pretty popular with the HM groupie, gin obvious did "stuff" with luppi and wonderwyce seemed to like him as well.
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Old 2007-03-05, 09:02   Link #19
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Most likely Luppi was either 101 or like WW was new.
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Old 2007-03-05, 09:41   Link #20
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I hope Luppi makes a comeback as a Privaron Espada but most likely it is dead already
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