AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-07-15, 09:37   Link #521
carcanclaw
Kitty?
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
Surely at least Barragan and Stark have to be Vasto Lorde - Vasto Lorde spend hundreds (if not thousands) of years getting to that highest level, and therefore wouldn't put up with an Adjuchas (Barragan) claiming to be their king, usurping their power. The top 4 are probably all Vasto Lorde, hence the rule about not using resurreccion.
There could be some deeper level of Hueco Mundo we're unaware of. Soul Society has the King's Realm, maybe HM has something similar for VLs.

Also, the non-cannon background for Harribel in the anime has her looking like an arrancar too, though everything but her head was covered by hollow bone/armor. This definitely suggests that Aizen was refining/enhancing existing arrancars with the Hogyoku.

I feel like the argument could be made that the top 4 were really high-level adjuchas that were in their arrancar forms during their flashbacks. Then again, that might just be me resisting the idea that Vasto Lordes could be beaten as easily as the top 3 were.
carcanclaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-15, 16:43   Link #522
sayde
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I hate to be a downer, but let's not forget;

Rukia -- who had never seen a Gillian with her own eyes before -- was convinced that a single shinigami couldn't oppose one in a 1-1 battle and that they'd need a team of elites to get the job done. But later on in the series, she actually defeats Espada #9 which suggests she's strong enough to make a Gillian look like fodder despite not undergoing any significant power ups or training. I mean the biggest thing that happened to her is that she got her shinigami powers back to full strength. Yet at the time, she gives us the distinct impression that she herself couldn't take on a Gillian even if Ichigo hadn't taken her powers. Granted I think she got a little practice in while trying to train Orihime. But let's be honest. How much could she have really improved by doing that?

So based on what history has demonstrated, it's probably best not to take what little we do know of the VL's from a rookie captain like Hitsugaya (who had never encountered a VL himself at the time) so seriously. VL's might not look like one would imagine and they definitely might not be as strong as one would like to imagine to say the least. Kubo's great at exaggerating things from time to time (whether he means to or not). So don't let it disappoint some of you too much should we ever get official confirmation that Espada's 4-1 were indeed VL's before becoming Arrancar.

Last edited by sayde; 2010-07-15 at 17:02.
sayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-15, 17:35   Link #523
SakuraHououji-NoMiko
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
I agree with dragon and Sayde, and I think that the top 4 Arrancar were all Vasto Lordes. If I'm reading/intrepreting things correct, Aizen was going to HM even BEFORE his plot got found out, and he was recruiting then and building Las Noches. Cause when he confronts Baragan, there was no Las Noches (remember Tousen's comment?). During that time when all Aizen could recruit was was what was there we see they were humanoid. Yes they could have been incomplete Arrancars, but they could still have been VASTO LORDES INCOMPLETE ARRANCAR. And think about there release forms those fors are suppose to reflect what they were before right? We all know Grim and his Fracions were Adjuchas (I believe I read that Grim use to be Numero 12 Arrancar, but after the Hougyoku he became powerful enough to become the 6th Espada) Nel was number 3 before the Hougyoku.

W/E I'm starting to ramble. I'll admit that maybe yes, they may have been adjuchas at first but that after training and the Hougyoku they very well could have evolved to Vasto Lordes as well as becoming stronger Arrancar. Hell, Ichigo did it. When we see him go full hollow with the Vizards he is Adjucha, but when Orihime screamed him back to life (was that really life? lol) his form was VL. We all know Aizen wanted the best HM had to offer and the flash back with Neliel and Nnoitra showed that they were seeking out the VLs so I'm sure the VLs lived in HM with the others. And I'm sure he found some, like stated before, no VL would allow Baragan to proclaim himself Emperor of HM if he was a mere Adjucha.
__________________
The greatest happiness for me is to let the person I most like have the most happiness. -Tomoyo

Whatever your thoughts may be, if you donít say them, none of them will be acknowledged by others. -Tomoyo (to Li)

The person he loves, I love that person too, and I'm sure that person loves him too. So it's okay that he doesn't love me. -Sakura (about Yukito)
SakuraHououji-NoMiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-16, 03:20   Link #524
SakuraHououji-NoMiko
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcanclaw View Post
There could be some deeper level of Hueco Mundo we're unaware of. Soul Society has the King's Realm, maybe HM has something similar for VLs.
If you've watched the anime (ep. 147-149) it reveals that the Gillian live below the surface world and that the Adjuchas AND Vastos Lordes lived on the surface (ok, can't remember it that clearly, some of the Adjuchas and VL may live below as well.) Yes, it was not in the manga, but Kubo did invent that concept and had originally PLANNED to have it in the manga, but due to time constraints decided not to. So that bit of anime magic is true to Kubo's original desired image of HM.

for more info:
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ashido_Kan%C5%8D

And it makes since that Kubo still sees it that way, I mean c'mon the did all that traveling and only ran across the sand guardian of Los Noches? There are entirely too many hollow for that to be believed and Gillians are just too damn tall, lol. I have also seen some of his concept artwork for it too, and on the are work he put some notes.
__________________
The greatest happiness for me is to let the person I most like have the most happiness. -Tomoyo

Whatever your thoughts may be, if you donít say them, none of them will be acknowledged by others. -Tomoyo (to Li)

The person he loves, I love that person too, and I'm sure that person loves him too. So it's okay that he doesn't love me. -Sakura (about Yukito)

Last edited by SakuraHououji-NoMiko; 2010-07-16 at 03:30.
SakuraHououji-NoMiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-16, 14:26   Link #525
dragonmeister
Terror of the Seas
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I hate to be a downer, but let's not forget;

Rukia -- who had never seen a Gillian with her own eyes before -- was convinced that a single shinigami couldn't oppose one in a 1-1 battle and that they'd need a team of elites to get the job done. But later on in the series, she actually defeats Espada #9 which suggests she's strong enough to make a Gillian look like fodder despite not undergoing any significant power ups or training. I mean the biggest thing that happened to her is that she got her shinigami powers back to full strength. Yet at the time, she gives us the distinct impression that she herself couldn't take on a Gillian even if Ichigo hadn't taken her powers. Granted I think she got a little practice in while trying to train Orihime. But let's be honest. How much could she have really improved by doing that?

So based on what history has demonstrated, it's probably best not to take what little we do know of the VL's from a rookie captain like Hitsugaya (who had never encountered a VL himself at the time) so seriously. VL's might not look like one would imagine and they definitely might not be as strong as one would like to imagine to say the least. Kubo's great at exaggerating things from time to time (whether he means to or not). So don't let it disappoint some of you too much should we ever get official confirmation that Espada's 4-1 were indeed VL's before becoming Arrancar.
Not only that, but in Hitsuguya's explanation of the various forms of menos, adjuchas are said to be at the level of lieutenants. Yet the fraccion, of which Grimmjow's are definitely adjuchas (the others almost definitely are), are quickly defeated by the lieutenants, despite the fact that shinigamification is supposed to make them much stronger.
dragonmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.