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Old 2007-03-04, 10:40   Link #21
kayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
You want to provide nice things for them. You want them to be happy, perhaps more than you care for yourself to be happy. It's no longer a matter of having money to buy things for yourself, but to be able to buy nice things for them; to give them access to events and experiences that they might otherwise not have been able to.
That's the thing, you would always want to make people happy. Maybe you end up wanting a family, and in order to support them you'll need more money. Do you see where I'm going with this, it's a cycle, the more you want in life the more you'll need money.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm all about having a family but as you already know this world is overpopulated so it might be best to just adopt a child instead.
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Old 2007-03-04, 10:41   Link #22
Corn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Wait a few years when you meet someone you'll want to spend the rest of your life with... Like I said, life is a hysterical little missy.
I still just don't see it...

This world is cold and dark and cruel.

Only the strong survive...


It's like... It's all for the taking, and the rest of the world will just suffer. No room for good things in life anymore

Ain't that why, entire continents like Africa are going up in flames from sheer starvation, while in the west, our biggest threat is eating to much.
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Old 2007-03-04, 13:35   Link #23
Contempt
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Going into the definitions of wealth, success is always a sticky subject. Each and every person will gravitate to their own definition and perception of these.

However, I'm doing Law, to be quite honest with myself I have no real love for the subject beyond the challenge it presents which alone is enough for me to put as much effort as I can into it. How ever what I really wish to do is to write, in fact I do it a lot... In particular I've got a project I've been working on for the past few years. I see law as a vehicle to achieve eventual means. To ensure that I've been investing whatever I earn... Call it an early pension scheme...

But getting back to my point. Despite the neccessity of money I view it as nothing more but a means to an end... That end is up to the individual.

(somehow it seems far too obvious to warrant a post, but I thought I may as well throw in my two cents. ((or pence would be more appropriate))
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Old 2007-03-04, 15:32   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
Define "rich"

working 72-90 hours a week, getting called during vacations/days off for 200k a year
doesn't sound like "the easy life" to me

"trying to be rich" isn't worth it, "being rich" is
and there are only 2 kinds of people that qualify for that:
-those that won the lottery
-those that were born in families that have such vast financial resources, they never need to work
It's true that working one's self to death in an attempt to build wealth is absolutely not worth it.

However, most people who are rich, including those who spend most of their time "being rich", rather than simply trying to get there, built their own wealth, rather than merely receiving it by a matter of chance.
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Old 2007-03-04, 17:37   Link #25
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Quote:
However, most people who are rich, including those who spend most of their time "being rich", rather than simply trying to get there, built their own wealth, rather than merely receiving it by a matter of chance.
Welcome to the game of life, where you play with the token your parents left you. Life is always a matter of chance, from the moment you are born, the family and the environment you grow up in condition you as to the choices you make and the possibilities you'll have. Being born in a poor family is an almost certain guarantee of ending with a modest economic position. Of course this asseveration doesn't reflect the 100% of the cases, but it covers the most of them.

Some time or the other in the life of rich people, someone built up the fortune, all right, but I'm pretty much convinced it was a matter of chance. You have to be the right man at the right moment in the right place. Or you can work your ass off studying economics and end up being an insignificant bank clerk with no bigger responsibility than watching over money that isn't really your own.

Let's face it, when it comes to money, people will always try to screw you. The less money you have, the more other people could have.
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Old 2007-03-04, 19:28   Link #26
Nightbat®
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Originally Posted by Kyuusai View Post
However, most people who are rich, including those who spend most of their time "being rich", rather than simply trying to get there, built their own wealth, rather than merely receiving it by a matter of chance.
Actually "luck" has got everything to do with it
because if you're not one of the lucky ones, you'll need to work the rest of your life

(my former and current boss fit that category, they invented something that luckily caught on)

there are a number of reasons 'rich' people keep on working
Greed or feeling 'usefull' are the prime reasons

(and again, here both bosses fit in)
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Old 2007-03-04, 19:32   Link #27
no common sense
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"The less money you have, the more other people could have."
That's a rather dim view of capitalism since it assumes a fixed pie. The pie gets bigger as more people contribute and become more productive. The market pays exactly how much the market perceives you contributed to making the pie bigger enabling you take from the pie exactly how much you put into it (that is if the gov. doesn't interfere). As more people contribute there can be greater specialization and thus higher productivity.
As far as the topic at hand the underlying feel I'm getting is whether you should pursue an education is a field that the market has a high demand for like engineering and science or if you should pursue a career in a low demand area like social sciences and history. Since a responsible person will live beneath their means I recommend looking into a field you find interesting/fun that will pay at a higher rate than the standard of living you will be comfortable at (If your married than your opinion doesn't count since it's what the wife is comfortable with [so marry an ugly/fat or nonwestern foreign chick since they will be happy with what you provide and usually have better personalities][or stay single and be rich since you income will go 10 times as far as the married man's money]). Me, I'm following my dream to be a fighter pilot. I'm getting my degree in aeronautical engineering as a backup if flying doesn't work out. The pays not nearly what I could make as a civilian doing something else but I certainly won't be poor. I also plan to put off marriage for as long as possible unless I can find a good foreign bride from Eastern Europe/Korea/Japan when I’m deployed.
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Old 2007-03-04, 21:15   Link #28
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OT:

Quote:
If your married than your opinion doesn't count since it's what the wife is comfortable with [so marry an ugly/fat or nonwestern foreign chick since they will be happy with what you provide and usually have better personalities][or stay single and be rich since you income will go 10 times as far as the married man's money]
That phrase has so many sexist, racist and discriminatory elements, it makes me want to puke. Or puke on you, at the least.
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Old 2007-03-05, 00:42   Link #29
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
there are a number of reasons 'rich' people keep on working
Greed or feeling 'usefull' are the prime reasons
While I agree that the two are likely common reasons, it's a bit of an injustice to people who are generally seen as well-off, yet continue working.

The sad truth is, we (in general) are really only a couple of bad days away from poverty. "Rich" people aren't much different in this aspect.

For not-so-rich people, it could be losing your job.
For "rich" people, it could be a sticky lawsuit or getting your name run through the mud, then you'll never be able to find work again.

For everyone, it could be one bad illness (whether you or a family member) and POOF! goes the money.

It's all about keeping your head over water.
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Old 2007-03-05, 01:26   Link #30
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by kayos View Post
That's the thing, you would always want to make people happy. Maybe you end up wanting a family, and in order to support them you'll need more money. Do you see where I'm going with this, it's a cycle, the more you want in life the more you'll need money.
Generally, the cycle of want is linked to being a consumer, which means spending money. So you're right in that regard. However, wanting someone to be happy doesn't absolutely mean spending money. Money helps with regard to support, and it does make things easier.

I agree with what you said overall, and the reason I even brought up the want and family aspect was for exactly what you said - that money is a necessity of sorts. Supporting others and wanting their happiness being linked to money, that was a point I just wanted to bend a bit.
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Old 2007-03-05, 02:28   Link #31
no common sense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
OT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by no common sense
If your married than your opinion doesn't count since it's what the wife is comfortable with [so marry an ugly/fat or nonwestern foreign chick since they will be happy with what you provide and usually have better personalities][or stay single and be rich since you income will go 10 times as far as the married man's money]
That phrase has so many sexist, racist and discriminatory elements, it makes me want to puke. Or puke on you, at the least.
Come on you were on a roll, why not tack on homophobe while you’re at it since I didn't mention other men as an option. If you want to marry a typical American woman be my guest, I'll look for a woman who lacks the neuroticism postmodern western culture seems to produce in such abundance. /off topic

How much money is enough? Just a little bit more.
What's important is not having to worry about money ie: not living paycheck to paycheck. It is possible to do this if you live beneath your means and budget properly but in the earlier lower income years this is often difficult/inevitable and sacrifices have to be made. From there find a career you can be happy with (after all job satisfaction and performance are strongly correlated) but the earlier you marry/start a family the more limited your options will become. Keep in mind that one of the most common underlying factors behind divorce is money issues. I wouldn’t recommend having a job you hate so you can go out to eat if you can have a job you enjoy even if that means left over pasta instead.
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Old 2007-03-05, 05:09   Link #32
WanderingKnight
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Ok, last OT:

Quote:
Come on you were on a roll, why not tack on homophobe while you’re at it since I didn't mention other men as an option. If you want to marry a typical American woman be my guest, I'll look for a woman who lacks the neuroticism postmodern western culture seems to produce in such abundance.
You assume that the one who "provides" is the man, and that the woman doesn't need to work. You assume "ugly/fat/foreigner" women have better personalities, which is a giant prejudice in itself, and that you should marry them instead of looking at the "standard", which would be non-fat, non-"ugly", non-foreigner people.

And the "neurosis postmodern western culture seems to produce in such abundance" you'll find it in many foreigner people as well. Now you're assuming all westerners are Americans.
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Old 2007-03-05, 12:39   Link #33
Ending
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In the end... how important is it, having a big house, a nice car and all that? Does it really matter in the end?
Yes, it does. Like this one, triumph-after-trial entrepreneurer said; "money is the king." On the other hand, I like to think that money is just a tool for buying happiness. I.e: what you want and need. If you don't get those, you're usually quite unhappy. Simple, no?
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Old 2007-03-05, 16:30   Link #34
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Yes, it does. Like this one, triumph-after-trial entrepreneurer said; "money is the king." On the other hand, I like to think that money is just a tool for buying happiness. I.e: what you want and need. If you don't get those, you're usually quite unhappy. Simple, no?
But whenever you acquire those material things that supposedly bring you happiness, you will have another hole within yourself, that can only be fixed with more consumption of needless products. The so-called happiness you get from buying stuff is nothing more than an illusion that vanishes once you actually reach that state, because there's always going to be a higher 'state' of happiness, and that, in a capitalist society, tends to make people sad, and pursue the higher 'state' of happiness, and they reach it only to find out that there is another higher state of happiness and then the vicious circle starts again.
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Old 2007-03-05, 16:40   Link #35
kayos
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Happiness is a state of mind. Watching the sunset makes me happy and I can't buy that. But I understand where you're going with it WanderingKnight, it's like anticipating for the release of new video games after video games and so forth.
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Old 2007-03-05, 22:41   Link #36
Nightbat®
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no common sense View Post
so marry an ugly/fat or nonwestern foreign chick since they will be happy with what you provide and usually have better personalities
"Eddie! Eddie!" "I want to talk to you!"

"What's your problem, baby?"


"I don't like the way you treat me, Eddie." "You treat me like animal."

"You was butt naked on a zebra last month."


"I don't care, Eddie. I am American woman now." "I want what's coming to me." "Eddie, what have you done for me lately?"

"I want you to be happy. Well, what you want?"


"Half!"



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Old 2007-03-06, 04:25   Link #37
Legend Ver 2
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besides lottery and being born into the wealthy, there are ppl who actually built their wealth with hard work, and of course, like many said before, chance and luck. i personally know of a few individuals who built their wealth to a standard of multi millionaires, and as opposed to many views of "rich ppl live in mansions" and such, these guys are very modest. i know these 2 brothers, being multi millionaires, only live in a simple flat down in LA, nothing fancy, and quite simple. just some 2 or 3 luxury mercedes and such, which isnt too bad, but not too "out there" like lambos and such.

as for my own views, being only newly 22, i can say my growing up in a middle middle class family has put views into my head about the nature of this world in terms of happiness and such. me being very materialistic and such may have opinions that might not matter to most of you guys, but i can tell you from my experiences within the last short 3-4 year has taught me alot about the nature of money, wealth, power, and the most important of all, happiness.

as many of you guys already expressed, money is really required for happiness. some of you said that a loving family is all that matters. but wut is a loving family? familys who spend time with you? familys who can provide for u? i honestly dont know the answer to such a question, but i do know that money is an important factor in family, love, and relationships in general. lets not even talk about buying ur kids cars and college funds. with parents working 90 hr weeks and plus the ocassional overtime, just to provide for the family and putting your kids thru moderate to good schools, how much time do u even have to stay at home to love yur kids. regardless of money or not, any loving parent would b lying if they said it didnt matter if their kids went to a good skoo. so in essense, money buys time, and time spent with family away from work is happiness, if you want to go tat route.

and seeing how im beginning to write essays now, i'll continue with a second post...hehehe

...and regarding spoiling ur kids or not whether being rich or poor, who said that rich parents cant discipline their children like the general middle class can? just because parents are rich dont mean their kids are spoiled. that is often a general misconception that i see alot nowadays as one of the negative views of "being rich". like many ppls rich aunts and uncles, ur fellow cousins (at least mine) are hardly the spoiled rich brats u see generalized on tv and such. im not saying that they dont exist, but in a more realistic world, those kids are probably just growing up like us, with parent working, going through puberty and peer pressure in their circle of friends, but just a bit luckier to build their wealth since they're better off than most of us.

being 22, i have not seen life at its peak yet, just like many of u, but meeting adults from all over the place, they have often expressed their regrests of thinking naively about concepts of "just a loving family, just enough" was good enough, realizing that with more money, theres no worries of paycheck to paycheck lifestyle, and more time spent with wife/husband and kids. keep in mind these are adults who already lived life, and dont really long for much in terms of materialistic desires, but just a loving family.

and regarding choosing a path doing wutever u like to do, i got some tidbits on that too. i have an old friend whos an artist (like urs truly) who went into graphic design, something he loved. he attended art center, done the whole shibangabang, and got a job at some designing company. but as money became an issue in supporting his standard of living (which was pretty modest already), the pressure to work harder to make more money burned him out and he started hating designing. he later went into something else and took a break from design, and fixed alot of his monetary problem, but i wont get into that now. point is, ur dream job or career now may not b so dreamy when money starts becoming an issue, regardles of ur standard of living. with inflation going up everyday, and gas prices almost at 3 dollars where i live, and continuing to go up, even a low standard of living nowadays can be hell on financials.

last post i promise

and finally, my version of happiness

i would definitely love to wake up at 2pm everymorning, without going to work, next to a beautiful gf/wife, after a hot nite of ********************** in a moderately large house (no need for mansion, since large mansions r quite scary wen ur home alone) and haivng no worries of money. preferably a 4+ car garage, since im a car buff, and at least one supercar. the rest can be s2ks or other sporty middle class cars to mercedes for all i care. and thats pretty much it. o, and of course a ps3 and mgs4 waiting in the living room. pretty simple rite?

so wut r ur guys's (grammar?) comments?

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-03-07 at 05:41. Reason: Don't triple post
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Old 2007-03-06, 17:19   Link #38
Sirch
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Source: http://www.webmd.com/news/20060630/s...make-you-happy

Study: Money Won't Make You Happy

Quote:
"When someone reflects on how additional income would change [their sense of] well-being, they are probably tempted to think about spending more time in leisurely pursuits such as watching a large-screen plasma TV or playing golf," Kahneman and colleagues observe. "But in reality, they should think of spending a lot more time working and commuting and a lot less time engaged in passive leisure. ... By itself, this shift in time is unlikely to lead to much increase in experienced happiness."

Studies have also found if you have ZERO money and live under a bridge and then get some money to get you food, a house, and such will of course make you happy. However, added wealth beyond that has shown not to give more happiness and even adds to most people's unhappiness.
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Old 2007-03-06, 18:12   Link #39
psycho bolt
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In the end, is it all about trying to be rich? Nah, not really. I probably will never be rich once I die.
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Old 2007-03-06, 20:17   Link #40
Nightbat®
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirch View Post
Source: http://www.webmd.com/news/20060630/s...make-you-happy

Study: Money Won't Make You Happy.
Nice article, but ofcourse the Economists want us to be productive, and the psychologists want us to keep (them) busy
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