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Old 2007-04-04, 12:26   Link #81
DangerMouse
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I admit the 2D animation isn't flawless (the raw's quality wasn't anything to write home about either), but I personally really like the design work and am particularly fond of the CG craft which will no doubt be playing the largest role in the show. Scifi action is definitely one of, if not my, favorite genres so I'm sure I'm picking out the good parts but a first episode with not a lot of surprises doesn't really phase me and there are tons of shows that start with a very rushed and jumpy first episode. I'm more interested in the setting and characters and getting a feel for the kind of action to expect and it's art design and Macross-style large action pieces hit my buttons.

While I know the majority of the people on this topic don't do it, I am a bit tired of hearing every bland harem comedy get praised for amazing artwork and a show like this with some choppy animation but better designs gets slammed. There's a lot more animation here than in a show like that too and maybe the issues with starting up the show did have something to do with rushing it a bit. If that's the case, perhaps I'm even more impressed with the CG action :P

This show is probably going to be unoriginal (but I like supposedly unoriginal scifi) but I could watch it for the human vs alien action especially if the 2D animation smooths out over time now that hopefully some of the production problems have been dealt with. I wouldn't put it above Heroic Age since that show has an even more epic setting with the multi racial war galaxy-spanning setting and rather high production values and probably a really good story to it.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2007-04-04 at 12:49.
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Old 2007-04-04, 12:38   Link #82
Deacon Blues
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Gurren... we aren't even going to go there and talk about the crap that show is. As for Kissdum, which is what this thread centers around, remember, looks very promising. I don't know why people got their panties in a bunch over the first episode. I'm sure that the Japanese population, which this show is geared to, not us, is aware of the problems which may be fixed for a DVD release.
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2007-04-04, 12:48   Link #83
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Was it that bad? I didn't see much wrong in this one except for some animation consistency problem (character-wise) but the rest of the show is pretty decent in my book.

As for originality, ummm.... does it matter that much? It's the same issue with every genre nowdays and not just centred around mecha genre. I think it's refreshing to see a mecha design that doesn't resemble the Gundam or the old giant roboto design.
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Old 2007-04-04, 13:32   Link #84
7Th
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
Gurren... we aren't even going to go there and talk about the crap that show is. As for Kissdum, which is what this thread centers around, remember, looks very promising. I don't know why people got their panties in a bunch over the first episode. I'm sure that the Japanese population, which this show is geared to, not us, is aware of the problems which may be fixed for a DVD release.
Satelight has never fixed anything for a DVD release... not even in Aquarion super-badly animated episodes, which were the majority other than the beginning, various spread scenes and the Utsunomiya entry, although those were actually done that way on purpose, supposedly at least. Still, there wasn't a single promising element in KissDum's premier other than Kawamori's CG mechs; direction was barely average, character animation was below subpar and the music is downright terrible. It may turn out good, but nothing so far indicates so.

Also... you can't just call one show crap without actually, you know, saying why it is bad. That's the point of opinions, what you did is just trolling, specially for Gurren-Lagann that already counts with a number of well written praising reviews
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Old 2007-04-04, 13:58   Link #85
aardvark
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Originally Posted by 7Th View Post
Satelight has never fixed anything for a DVD release... not even in Aquarion super-badly animated episodes, which were the majority other than the beginning, various spread scenes and the Utsunomiya entry, although those were actually done that way on purpose, supposedly at least. Still, there wasn't a single promising element in KissDum's premier other than Kawamori's CG mechs; direction was barely average, character animation was below subpar and the music is downright terrible. It may turn out good, but nothing so far indicates so.

Also... you can't just call one show crap without actually, you know, saying why it is bad. That's the point of opinions, what you did is just trolling, specially for Gurren-Lagann that already counts with a number of well written praising reviews
Heat Guy J was majorly re-tooled for DVD release. Arjuna too had a lot added to it IIRC...

But aside from that, agreed on all points...
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Old 2007-04-04, 14:13   Link #86
7Th
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Heat Guy J was majorly re-tooled for DVD release. Arjuna too had a lot added to it IIRC...

But aside from that, agreed on all points...
Really? I didn't know about Heat Guy J as I watched directly the DVD but I thought all that was added to Arjuna were the TV inappropriate scenes.
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Old 2007-04-04, 15:52   Link #87
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Nobody worry about Deackychu, he does this all the time. He doesn't mean any harm, trust me.
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Old 2007-04-04, 16:08   Link #88
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
As for originality, ummm.... does it matter that much? It's the same issue with every genre nowdays and not just centred around mecha genre. I think it's refreshing to see a mecha design that doesn't resemble the Gundam or the old giant roboto design.
Exactly, I'm tired of this as a reason to bad mouth a show without giving it a chance, except for romantic comedies that all start the same way I don't watch them anymore
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Old 2007-04-04, 17:12   Link #89
Deacon Blues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Th View Post
Satelight has never fixed anything for a DVD release... not even in Aquarion super-badly animated episodes, which were the majority other than the beginning, various spread scenes and the Utsunomiya entry, although those were actually done that way on purpose, supposedly at least. Still, there wasn't a single promising element in KissDum's premier other than Kawamori's CG mechs; direction was barely average, character animation was below subpar and the music is downright terrible. It may turn out good, but nothing so far indicates so.
Given that this show had problems from the getgo, that doesn't stop them from ya know... fixing something for a change. They will more than likely add an ending onto this episode for the DVD instead of having the black screen. And I'm sure you can tell the direction of an episode based on one episode, come on now. Even I can poke fifty holes in that argument. I think for pulling this out of a trainwreck situation as portrayed online via blogs and what not, they did pretty damn well.

Quote:
Also... you can't just call one show crap without actually, you know, saying why it is bad. That's the point of opinions, what you did is just trolling, specially for Gurren-Lagann that already counts with a number of well written praising reviews
This thread isn't for that, so the comparisons that people made of this show to that are pretty asinine if you ask me. And it isn't trolling, it's expressing my opinion, which last time I checked is what we were doing here.

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Nobody worry about Deackychu, he does this all the time. He doesn't mean any harm, trust me.
Oh really now?
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2007-04-04, 17:31   Link #90
7Th
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
Given that this show had problems from the getgo, that doesn't stop them from ya know... fixing something for a change. They will more than likely add an ending onto this episode for the DVD instead of having the black screen. And I'm sure you can tell the direction of an episode based on one episode, come on now. Even I can poke fifty holes in that argument. I think for pulling this out of a trainwreck situation as portrayed online via blogs and what not, they did pretty damn well.
No, but this particular episode was pretty bad and doesn't gives any "hopes", read an speculative word, for the future. It may turn good, but nothing makes me thing so thus far, other than the original Sushio characters and the mecha designs. The plot was silly and nonsensical, with no feeling behind the conflict or real reason to create interest in it, the pacing was extremely cheap and amateurish and the music was nothing special and at times bad. We can't comment on the future, but premiers should be used to present your proposition and attract the audience, something in which KissDum horribly fails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
This thread isn't for that, so the comparisons that people made of this show to that are pretty asinine if you ask me. And it isn't trolling, it's expressing my opinion, which last time I checked is what we were doing here.
Just saying something is bad without actually saying why it is bad is actually fairly close to trolling, as to express an opinion is done for other people to listen to you and by actually posting that here you attempted to be read by someone, who can either agree or disagree with you but is still reading what you wrote. You are allowed to enjoy and think whatever you want, but when you express your thoughts there are consequences you must confront, because you made public what crosses your mind for shamelessly influencing others, creating polemic or in your case using them an argument, something fairly debatable since you use it as indisputable fact without any foundation to it. As of now, you should be ready to defend your claims or just get used to be called a troll for negatively commenting, without any clear reason other than "if I didn't liked it, then it must be BAD", on a series in a thread that doesn't belongs to it. You may just stay out of the discussion, but you shouldn't have brought it into the topic to begin with. The previous mention was fairly insignificant as it only included it in a list of potentially throughly good mecha anime to be released this year.
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Old 2007-04-04, 18:00   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Th View Post
No, but this particular episode was pretty bad and doesn't gives any "hopes", read an speculative word, for the future. It may turn good, but nothing makes me thing so thus far, other than the original Sushio characters and the mecha designs. The plot was silly and nonsensical, with no feeling behind the conflict or real reason to create interest in it, the pacing was extremely cheap and amateurish and the music was nothing special and at times bad. We can't comment on the future, but premiers should be used to present your proposition and attract the audience, something in which KissDum horribly fails.
So you expect the entire plot outlined for you in one episode? I think not. Anime premieres are suppose to hook you, yes, but given that not many do that now a days, I don't see why this show is any different. Geass wasn't all that climactic enough to keep me interested after the first episode, and I got through the first 4. Granted I've been going back and watching more episodes just to see what everyones big to-do about it is, but it is still 'meah' to me. GiTs SAC didn't have a stellar opening to the series, and that plot kicked into high gear in episode 4. V Gundam went backwards with episode 1 coming out in episode 4. I say give it time. If it proves to be tanked by episode 4, then I think it can be said that it sucks tenfold.

Quote:
Just saying something is bad without actually saying why it is bad is actually fairly close to trolling, as to express an opinion is done for other people to listen to you and by actually posting that here you attempted to be read by someone, who can either agree or disagree with you but is still reading what you wrote. You are allowed to enjoy and think whatever you want, but when you express your thoughts there are consequences you must confront, because you made public what crosses your mind for shamelessly influencing others, creating polemic or in your case using them an argument, something fairly debatable since you use it as indisputable fact without any foundation to it. As of now, you should be ready to defend your claims or just get used to be called a troll for negatively commenting, without any clear reason other than "if I didn't liked it, then it must be BAD", on a series in a thread that doesn't belongs to it. You may just stay out of the discussion, but you shouldn't have brought it into the topic to begin with. The previous mention was fairly insignificant as it only included it in a list of potentially throughly good mecha anime to be released this year.
I've made my comments about that show clear enough outside of this thread and don't need to spread them into this thread. Don't try attacking me for bringing it into the topic when everyone else before me brought it up first.
__________________
「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2007-04-04, 18:05   Link #92
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
Gigantic Formula, perhaps? The only problem with that series is that it somewhat reminds me of G Gundam. 8)
Hehe, that's why I can't wait for it, so many cool mechs duking it out G-Gundam-style. I think it will be more "realistic" and less over-the-top than G-Gundam was though.
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Old 2007-04-04, 18:13   Link #93
7Th
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
So you expect the entire plot outlined for you in one episode? I think not. Anime premieres are suppose to hook you, yes, but given that not many do that now a days, I don't see why this show is any different. Geass wasn't all that climactic enough to keep me interested after the first episode, and I got through the first 4. Granted I've been going back and watching more episodes just to see what everyones big to-do about it is, but it is still 'meah' to me. GiTs SAC didn't have a stellar opening to the series, and that plot kicked into high gear in episode 4. V Gundam went backwards with episode 1 coming out in episode 4. I say give it time. If it proves to be tanked by episode 4, then I think it can be said that it sucks tenfold.
No one said the show sucks, just that the first episode was really underwhelming. I wasn't expecting to see much of a plot from them, but there wasn't any excitement inside or even a promise of a bigger well thought scenario behind it. Premiers are also fairly indicative of a staff's talent, this shown none, Geass for example at least had decent animation and the final showcase felt like a worthwhile show.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
I've made my comments about that show clear enough outside of this thread and don't need to spread them into this thread. Don't try attacking me for bringing it into the topic when everyone else before me brought it up first.
Outside... in another forum where most of the people here cannot read. Your absolute claim may be justified, but it looked like trolling since most of know don't know what you think is wrong with Lagann and you're just declaring in bad as objective truth.
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Old 2007-04-04, 18:26   Link #94
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I don't think it really matters if one expresses a negative or positive opinion of anything in particular without justifying that opinion.

We cannot compel each other to justify out beliefs, because some beliefs are not rational and sometimes it's only a "gut feeling" that tells us that something is going to be awesome, or that something is going to be awesomely bad, with no real evidence to support us before our peers.

In fact, Deacon can claim whatever he wants, it's his prerogative. He doesn't have to explain to me why he thinks that KissDum is great. Nor do I have to explain to him why I think that KissDum is a great waste of time.

At the same, we don't really have to believe each other either. We are just stating our opinions. By justifying them, we give our opinions credence in the eyes of others. But we are not required to be credible, so when Deacon says something without explaining himself, he is just stating his opinion. My opinion is that he is smoking it, but that's only because he never gave a valid reason as to why he is the ultimate source of truth.

This is the nature of our discussions here. We state opinions. If we want to look rational while doing that, that's a whole 'nother ballgame.
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Old 2007-04-07, 16:15   Link #95
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Interesting reading the comments here. I guess most people were disappointed, considering the potential. I found the first episode very confusing; the randomness of some of the sequences (the giant condor thing, the car appearing out of nowhere, the pink disc) left me baffled, not because they weren't well done but because Kissdum made no attempt to explain them. It's like we're thrown into the middle of some chaotic battle with no exposition and told to figure it out for ourselves. If rumours of the production problems hadn't influenced me I may have thought it was a bold move, instead it feels like it's rushed, lacking in tight direction and helmed by someone who cannot control the scale of the ideas here.

I can imagine, given the time and directorial control, Kissdum could have been much more memorable than say Heroic Age or Gigantic Formula. Instead it comes across as a jumbled mess of, admittedly, well animated but incoherent action sequences punctuated by some ill placed humour. It's not bad (technically), it's just feels like a waste of an opportunity to produce something of lasting value. At least that goes for the first episode. I'll probably watch a few more episodes, in case they pull it together and begin to makes sense of things.

All criticisms aside the CG is excellent. Some of the best I've seen in action/mecha shows and that alone is a considerable achievement. I just hope they pull it together and inspire some confidence its ambitions.
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Old 2007-04-07, 17:01   Link #96
JerseyDevil
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Heat Guy J was majorly re-tooled for DVD release.
Off topic, but where did you hear that from? What significant changes were made? I'm curious, since I really liked the series when it aired.
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Old 2007-04-07, 17:43   Link #97
DangerMouse
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A lot of shows these days start off totally confusing throwing us head first into an action heavy first episode with no absolutely no attempt at explaining things until episodes 2-3. Tokyo Majin Kenpuchou for example. I'll give them another episode or 2 to before I rate where the story is going, currently the CG is the main highlight.

Edit: There's a newer RAW out now that definitely looks nicer IMO than the old one last week, whether or not it's upscaled or not it's a much nicer raw.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2007-04-08 at 15:08.
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Old 2007-04-10, 18:59   Link #98
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Episode 2 brings us flesh-melting, glowing mystic women and A BIG GUN INSTEAD OF AN ARM!!!! It also makes slightly more sense than episode 1, even only through skipping through it, which at least bodes well even if it's painfully obvious that there are perhaps five people on the staff of this show and none of them are getting paid...

This show, incidentally, is the Necrodiver project that Satelight was working on some time ago.
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Old 2007-04-10, 19:01   Link #99
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Originally Posted by BluWacky View Post
Episode 2 brings us flesh-melting, glowing mystic women and A BIG GUN INSTEAD OF AN ARM!!!! It also makes slightly more sense than episode 1, even only through skipping through it, which at least bodes well even if it's painfully obvious that there are perhaps five people on the staff of this show and none of them are getting paid...

This show, incidentally, is the Necrodiver project that Satelight was working on some time ago.

Necrodiver project? Never heard of it.
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Old 2007-04-11, 03:16   Link #100
BluWacky
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Necrodiver project? Never heard of it.
There was for quite some time listed on Moonphase a project called "Necrodiver" with Kawamori mecha designs with an unknown release date (even post-announcement of Kissdum). The term "Necrodiver" is important in episode 2 of Kissdum.
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