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Old 2010-12-04, 04:23   Link #2741
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
Is there any canon information on how well barriers and Barrier Jackets stand up against kinetic weaponry? The only thing I am aware of is Subaru resisting the Mariages in SSX.

Specifically, is there anything on how HEAT or EFPs do against them? Are there any stats on RHA-thickness equivalence?
Can't say anything definite, but the Jackets are apparently what protects the mages from concussions and broken bones when they are blasted across half the city. IIRC in A's, Nanoha and Fate are thrown into buildings, crashing through walls and floors on regular basis, and reemerge more-or-less combat ready, meaning that whatever magical protection they use, it must be damn efficient at rerouting kinetic energy.
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Old 2010-12-04, 06:41   Link #2742
Keroko
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There is no canonical information on how effective Barrier Jackets are against kinetic effects, and the effectiveness has been debated for months on end on these forums. Sometimes quite brutally. To make a long story short, no definite conclusion was ever reached and people just somewhat agreed to stick to what they believed.
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Old 2010-12-04, 07:08   Link #2743
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Hmm. So much for that idea. It sounded good on paper, but considering how divisive Test Dummies was, I guess not.
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Old 2010-12-04, 13:50   Link #2744
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Quote:
IIRC in A's, Nanoha and Fate are thrown into buildings, crashing through walls and floors on regular basis, and reemerge more-or-less combat ready, meaning that whatever magical protection they use, it must be damn efficient at rerouting kinetic energy.
in their final fight in the movie they crash through a few scyscrapers at full speed .. and it's appearantly no big deal




not sure if this was discussed here, but I seem uncertain on the 'stun-effect' of pure magic in the Mid-childa style (i.e. what Nanoha shoots .. because it seems Fate converts at least some of that into actual lightning (or plasma?) and Signum - into fire) .. now
1) is such magic even capable of harming/killing living tissue, i.e. people ? Because all I've seen are knock-outs even after the defences are clearly penetrated and there may even be burned clothing (I presume from overloading the linker-core or nervous system or such ... or just fatigue from defending against it .. it also may have kinetic properties, i.e. an SLB will slam you into the ground if you don't defend against it .. but as seen above slamming into the ground would be more or less a non-issue). Zest killed that claws-girl, but he was Belkan-style and did have a sword. I think it (again - I'm talking mostly about Nanoha's beam-spams) being unable to harm living things isn't such a stretch, because it's bio-generated, and as such cannot harm bio-material (unless converted into something else). But clarifications from canon would be nice.

tldr - are Nanoha's attacks like lasers/DBZ ki-blasts, which affect everything the same or is it specifically non-lethal magic ?

2) I think I remember at least a few times 'stun-mode' being mentioned. So does Nanoha have to deliberately switch to stun-mode not to kill ? And if she doesn't switch - her attacks would erase her opponents just like they do general concrete/rock/metal surroundings ? Or stun-mode merely guarantees no deaths, but even without it magic blasts don't affect people like they do everything else ?




I got these ideas after thinking about nasuverse magic .. there mana and magic blasts are generally explosions that rip apart everything equally (i.e. Caster's beam-spams can kill nicely .. or Excalibur or Enuma Elish)
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Old 2010-12-04, 14:03   Link #2745
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We've already discussed that at page 131-133, same thread, but if you have some new canonical info feel free to add them ; Lengthy speculations can be discussed at the appropriate thread
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Old 2010-12-04, 14:04   Link #2746
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thanks, I'll check it out

Quote:
appropriate thread
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...t=96273&page=6 this one ?
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Old 2010-12-06, 00:22   Link #2747
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...44131&page=131

Oh, now i see the tiny text :3

There's also a lot of discussions int he magic/technology thread. wish someone could make theory wiki pages or soemthing. collation would be very much appreciated.
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Old 2010-12-06, 03:30   Link #2748
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Was it ever mentioned why Einhart named her 'Adult Form' as Heidi. E.S. Ingvalt?
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Old 2010-12-06, 12:18   Link #2749
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She was living a double life there for awhile. Heidi and Einhart were the two names she used to keep them separate.
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Old 2010-12-06, 12:28   Link #2750
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In other words: no, her reason to picking that particular name hasn't been revealed yet. On a related note, "Claus" Ingvalt may be a fake name, too, since his full name apparently was "Claus G.S. Ingvalt" (prooflink, since I am too lazy to look for the chapter and page).
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Old 2010-12-07, 09:45   Link #2751
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Thanks.

Her naming sense kinda felt more significant after the whole deal with Asteion, which made me thought I might had forgotten a name of 'Heidi' being thrown somewhere amidst all of 4 pages with Ancient Belka exposition in the countless pages of training.
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Old 2010-12-09, 11:18   Link #2752
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Question about Nanoha A's .. This probably has been answered but there's too many pages to go through to find the answer ... Simply put, how come Suzuka and Alisa where caught up inside the barrier, is that even possible unless you're a mage .. ? ( I've not read the manga, maybe the answer is there .. If it is, spoil me please. )

Also how do the barriers exactly even work ? I mean we've had citywide barriers and there are no civilians around so what .. has the time frozen or something ? And when the barrier is dispelled, everything continues as normally ? I could believe this except that what about the damages caused inside the barriers.. those carry over right, wouldn't it be weird if buildings just exploded in front of you for no reason etc x.x.
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Old 2010-12-09, 11:42   Link #2753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
Question about Nanoha A's .. This probably has been answered but there's too many pages to go through to find the answer ... Simply put, how come Suzuka and Alisa where caught up inside the barrier, is that even possible unless you're a mage .. ? ( I've not read the manga, maybe the answer is there .. If it is, spoil me please. )

Also how do the barriers exactly even work ? I mean we've had citywide barriers and there are no civilians around so what .. has the time frozen or something ? And when the barrier is dispelled, everything continues as normally ? I could believe this except that what about the damages caused inside the barriers.. those carry over right, wouldn't it be weird if buildings just exploded in front of you for no reason etc x.x.
While there is no official explanation (that I know of), it is a Continuity Nod to the fact that Alisa and Suzuka are not human according to Triangle Heart Canon (that is, one's a ghost and the other's family are vampires).
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Old 2010-12-09, 11:51   Link #2754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
Question about Nanoha A's .. This probably has been answered but there's too many pages to go through to find the answer ... Simply put, how come Suzuka and Alisa where caught up inside the barrier, is that even possible unless you're a mage .. ? ( I've not read the manga, maybe the answer is there .. If it is, spoil me please. )
There haven't been any real clear answers that explain everything, so there are a few different theories.

#1. Arisa and Suzuka are latent mages and thus were included; perhaps there was a plan to follow up on this, but then StrikerS happened

#2. When Shamal cast the barrier upon seeing the four enter Hayate's room, she tweaked it to include Arisa and Suzuka. She didn't want Nanoha or Fate to escape or contact anyone else, and so the other two were just collateral.

#3. On some level, perhaps Reinforce held some blame for Arisa and Suzuka, or wanted them around when she cut everyone else off.

Quote:
Also how do the barriers exactly even work ? I mean we've had citywide barriers and there are no civilians around so what .. has the time frozen or something ? And when the barrier is dispelled, everything continues as normally ? I could believe this except that what about the damages caused inside the barriers.. those carry over right, wouldn't it be weird if buildings just exploded in front of you for no reason etc x.x.
Technically speaking, the barriers shift a predetermined space slightly off from normal space. Other than that, it's difficult to say exactly how they work. Damage in the space probably returns to normal space (see episode 1), and the caster seems to have the capability to exclude or include things (most barriers cast eliminate normal civilians and objects, just taking the landscape and mages). I think you can repair the damage before the barrier ends, which is what Lindy's crew was doing when Nanoha was fighting Reinforce.

Other people can probably pull up some other information, but that's the best I got.
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:33   Link #2755
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Well I've not seen Triangle Heart.. I was actually trying to look for it just a moment ago, but to no avail ...

Anyhow, the first and second theories seem most likely .. Thanks for the replies.

One more question, which I forgot to add : Is it revelaed in manga if Nanoha and Fate actually told Arisa and Suzuka ( + Nanoha's parents? ) about them being mages etc. I got the feeling they did with the few scenes as A's ended but can't be sure .. How's a normal person gonna take '' Hey I'm a magical girl '' ..
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:45   Link #2756
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One more question, which I forgot to add : Is it revelaed in manga if Nanoha and Fate actually told Arisa and Suzuka ( + Nanoha's parents? ) about them being mages etc. I got the feeling they did with the few scenes as A's ended but can't be sure .. How's a normal person gonna take '' Hey I'm a magical girl '' ..
They did tell all those you mentioned at the end of A's, though considering the jobs that the Takamachi family is famous for (Badass Bodyguards), the Takamachi family is expected to have taken it pretty well. This again uses knowledge from Triangle Heart, where Shiro Takamachi (Nanoha's father) is dead rather than scarred (he referenced this as well as his 'retirement' in a short scene in TOS), and Miyuki and Kyouya work primarily as bodyguards, secondarily as workers at the Midori-ya.

Heck, they might be glad Nanoha's going into something (anything!) other than what nearly got her father killed.

I don't remember if it's 'revealed' or anything in the manga; I thought it was pretty clear from the end sequence of A's who was told.
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Old 2010-12-09, 13:17   Link #2757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
Also how do the barriers exactly even work ? I mean we've had citywide barriers and there are no civilians around so what .. has the time frozen or something ? And when the barrier is dispelled, everything continues as normally ? I could believe this except that what about the damages caused inside the barriers.. those carry over right, wouldn't it be weird if buildings just exploded in front of you for no reason etc x.x.
As it was said, there is no official explanation on how this is supposed to work but my personal theory is that whoever puts up the barrier actually drops all participants into a pocket dimension (we know that e.g. Rein was able to do that) where the current landscape is recreated in the same way the RF6 training grounds were "built" in StrikerS and Lutecia's, in ViVid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
One more question, which I forgot to add : Is it revelaed in manga if Nanoha and Fate actually told Arisa and Suzuka ( + Nanoha's parents? ) about them being mages etc. I got the feeling they did with the few scenes as A's ended but can't be sure .. How's a normal person gonna take '' Hey I'm a magical girl '' ..
I don't know about Suzuka and Arisa (I think there is a bit on them in the Sound Stages but I haven't got to them yet), but it is pretty certain that Nanoha told her parents about the whole magic thing when she effectively moved to another dimension. We know they keep in touch because Vivio sends them a picture of herself in ViVid. As for "normal persons", then at least in the Toraha continuity, the Takamachi/Fuwa family is anything but normal.
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:51   Link #2758
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
As it was said, there is no official explanation on how this is supposed to work but my personal theory is that whoever puts up the barrier actually drops all participants into a pocket dimension (we know that e.g. Rein was able to do that) where the current landscape is recreated in the same way the RF6 training grounds were "built" in StrikerS and Lutecia's, in ViVid.



I don't know about Suzuka and Arisa (I think there is a bit on them in the Sound Stages but I haven't got to them yet), but it is pretty certain that Nanoha told her parents about the whole magic thing when she effectively moved to another dimension. We know they keep in touch because Vivio sends them a picture of herself in ViVid. As for "normal persons", then at least in the Toraha continuity, the Takamachi/Fuwa family is anything but normal.
i think it is clear form the sound stages that Arisa and Suzuka knows about Magic and TSAB. Wouldn't surprise me if Arisa and Suzuka is a bit more involve.
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Old 2010-12-09, 15:04   Link #2759
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All things considered, at that point it'd be nigh-impossible to hide Nanoha and Fate (and by extension Hayate)'s abilities from Arisa and Suzuka as they had experienced it themselves. And frankly speaking I doubt the TSAB would screw with the girls' memories, and even if they would, Lindy and Nanoha and them would oppose it.
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Old 2010-12-09, 15:30   Link #2760
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Where do the mage's normal clothes go when she summons her Barrier Jacket? Where did Verossa hide that cake?
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