AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-08-02, 00:39   Link #3361
green-link94
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: mid-childa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Also, I always thought the Relics to be a cheap source of mana, judging by the power-up Vivio received when implanted with one.
It was actually the cradle that gave vivio her power up
green-link94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 00:39   Link #3362
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Vivio's needing a Relic seemed more about the Cradle than any control function of Jail's.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 00:41   Link #3363
DezoPenguin
Beta by Accident
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Age: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by green-link94 View Post
It was actually the cradle that gave vivio her power up
Yeah, what I thought was going on there is that the Relic acts as a kind of transmitter to connect Vivio to the Cradle, allowing her to channel all that extra mana...but also allowing the Cradle's computers to control her body (and when Quattro's operating it, her mind).
DezoPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 00:49   Link #3364
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
All of this is confusing. Weren't the Sankt Kaisers supposed to control the Cradle and not the other way around?
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 04:21   Link #3365
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
A proper Sankt Kaiser controls the Cradle. Vivio was little more than a key while Quattro took the controls.

However, being essentially plugged into a giant Lost Logia war machine has the obvious advantage of being... well... being plugged into a giant Lost Logia war machine. The reactor gives the Sankt Kaiser essentially an endless supply of mana, and in the event that the Kaiser falls it activates a backup program that takes over the Kaiser and allows the Kaiser to fight on even after defeat.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 06:56   Link #3366
DezoPenguin
Beta by Accident
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Age: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
A proper Sankt Kaiser controls the Cradle. Vivio was little more than a key while Quattro took the controls.

However, being essentially plugged into a giant Lost Logia war machine has the obvious advantage of being... well... being plugged into a giant Lost Logia war machine. The reactor gives the Sankt Kaiser essentially an endless supply of mana, and in the event that the Kaiser falls it activates a backup program that takes over the Kaiser and allows the Kaiser to fight on even after defeat.
If you think about it, it's really not all that different from what Mach Caliber did for Subaru in the fight with Ginga. The key here is, as you say, Vivio is not a proper Sankt Kaiser. She's a six-year-old kid who was plugged into the computer of a massively complex Lost Logia without the instruction manual and has no idea how to command it or make it do anything. Meanwhile, the computer sees Nanoha, Vita, Hayate, etc. as intruders who were attaching the Cradle, fighting the Cradle's crew and soldiers, smashing the engine room, fighting the Kaiser, etc., etc. and so continues to defend itself with the resources at its command.
DezoPenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 10:38   Link #3367
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Suddenly, I am having this weird darkfic idea where Vita fails to destroy the main engine, the Cradle becomes self-aware and kills everyone on board except Vivio (including Quattro, Vita, Hayate, Rein, and Nanoha, the latter being killed in front of Vivio) in self-defense. Fate takes command of the RF6 and gives chase after the rogue battleship who stole her daughter. Scaglietti is temporarily pardoned in exchange for his expertise in Belkan tech. And the whole story is told from Subaru's POV, who is heavily scarred by the death of her idol and mentor.
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 10:45   Link #3368
Nanya01
Left for TFF
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Frozen Hell of the North
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Nanya01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Suddenly, I am having this weird darkfic idea where Vita fails to destroy the main engine, the Cradle becomes self-aware and kills everyone on board except Vivio (including Quattro, Vita, Hayate, Rein, and Nanoha, the latter being killed in front of Vivio) in self-defense. Fate takes command of the RF6 and gives chase after the rogue battleship who stole her daughter. Scaglietti is temporarily pardoned in exchange for his expertise in Belkan tech. And the whole story is told from Subaru's POV, who is heavily scarred by the death of her idol and mentor.
I'd love to see that if done right.
__________________

My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
Nanya01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 11:35   Link #3369
Dark Wing
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
What are the known functions for Relics? I read somewhere, don't remember where, that on their own they can help facilitate mind control, but I dunno if that's true or not.
Well to answer your question more directly it depends on the function of said relics. Some have the power to destroyed whole worlds like the book of darkness while others are relatively harmless when used correctly like rising heart. In the case of Vivio the relic put inside of her was a power conductor that was modified to double as a mind control device.
__________________
Dark Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 12:28   Link #3370
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Raising Heart is just a device, not a Relic nor a Lost Logia. How people got that idea still eludes me.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 12:32   Link #3371
Nanya01
Left for TFF
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Frozen Hell of the North
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Nanya01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Raising Heart is just a device, not a Relic nor a Lost Logia. How people got that idea still eludes me.
The Omakes, where else? =/
__________________

My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
Nanya01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:04   Link #3372
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Well to answer your question more directly it depends on the function of said relics. Some have the power to destroyed whole worlds like the book of darkness while others are relatively harmless when used correctly like rising heart. In the case of Vivio the relic put inside of her was a power conductor that was modified to double as a mind control device.
I think you are confusing the term "Relic" and "Lost Logia": Lost Logia are all unstudied artifacts from the Belkan War era, while Relics are a specific type of LL that looks like large red crystals and does whatever the plot requires it to do. I said "unstudied" because the cartridge system was obviously an ancient artifact, too, until it was picked up by N&F, but it was studied by the Bureau and filed under Device upgrades so it is never referred as "Lost Logia".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Raising Heart is just a device, not a Relic nor a Lost Logia. How people got that idea still eludes me.
Well, Raising Heart may be of Belkan origin, though it is highly unlikely given its magic system is Mid-Childan. Last time I checked, there was no canon data on its origins; it's not even said whether Yuuno found it or created it himself (unlikely, since he never displayed any Device-tech skills later in the series).
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:15   Link #3373
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
If Raising Heart had any special origins, don't you think they would at least have mentioned this by now?
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:19   Link #3374
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
I think most people who consider Raising Heart to be some sort of lost superweapon are forgetting that Nanoha's power is her own; she'd have magical strength she has regardless of whether or not she had a Device. The only special thing RH had for that was giving her the chance to use that magic. Inherently, RH is just another Intelligent Device and no more special than Bardiche, Mach Calibur, or Cross Mirage.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:25   Link #3375
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
If Raising Heart had any special origins, don't you think they would at least have mentioned this by now?
Didn't they? :3 Mysterious origin is the most special of them all, if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I think most people who consider Raising Heart to be some sort of lost superweapon are forgetting that Nanoha's power is her own; she'd have magical strength she has regardless of whether or not she had a Device. The only special thing RH had for that was giving her the chance to use that magic. Inherently, RH is just another Intelligent Device and no more special than Bardiche, Mach Calibur, or Cross Mirage.
No, actually, Raising Heart is as special as Nanoha herself. If you recall A's manga, ordinary Devices, even the best ones constructed by TSAB, couldn't handle Hayate's power output, so she had to construct the Schwertkreuz herself. Bardiche is in no way an ordinary Device, either, as it was custom-crafted for Fate by Linith after she studied Fate's magical talents and powers in detail. It all points towards the conclusion that exceptional mages need exceptional Devices, and Nanoha is no ordinary mage by any measure. Which makes the circumstance that Raising Heart just happened to click with Nanoha all the more extraordinary.
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:29   Link #3376
Nanya01
Left for TFF
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Frozen Hell of the North
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Nanya01
The only thing that I think of that's special about Raising Heart is that it's the ONLY I.D. that wasn't specially designed for its user.

Bardiche, Mach Calibur, Cross Mirage, Sacred Heart, all of them were specifically designed for their users.

Raising Heart, on the other hand...

Was it stated how long it was in the Scrya Clan, if it was at all, before Yuuno got it?

Or did he just find it at the same dig he found the Jewel Seeds?
__________________

My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
Nanya01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:33   Link #3377
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
No, actually, Raising Heart is as special as Nanoha herself. If you recall A's manga, ordinary Devices, even the best ones constructed by TSAB, couldn't handle Hayate's power output, so she had to construct the Schwertkreuz herself. Bardiche is in no way an ordinary Device, either, as it was custom-crafted for Fate by Linith after she studied Fate's magical talents and powers in detail. It all points towards the conclusion that exceptional mages need exceptional Devices, and Nanoha is no ordinary mage by any measure. Which makes the circumstance that Raising Heart just happened to click with Nanoha all the more extraordinary.
Hayate's level of power also wasn't natural due to how she received it, and her output is apparently much higher than Nanoha's. RH is still just an Intelligent Device, and custom made device =/= special lost artifact. So Bardiche isn't super-special either. Add to the fact that there's a major difference between Intelligent Devices, Armed Devices, and Storage Devices... Hayate's Devices are Armed and Storage (and Unison but that's yet again something else entirely). Ultimately RH still has nothing to do with Nanoha's level of power; it's not some Lost Logia in its own right.

Especially when one of the requirements of a Lost Logia is "something we can't reproduce."
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:36   Link #3378
Nanya01
Left for TFF
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Frozen Hell of the North
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Nanya01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Hayate's level of power also wasn't natural due to how she received it, and her output is apparently much higher than Nanoha's.
I heard somewhere that Hayate's power was supposedly on par with Nanoha's BEFORE Reinforce fused their Linker Cores together.

Any word on that?
__________________

My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
Nanya01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:44   Link #3379
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Was it stated how long it was in the Scrya Clan, if it was at all, before Yuuno got it?

Or did he just find it at the same dig he found the Jewel Seeds?
As I said earlier, there is no info on any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Hayate's level of power also wasn't natural due to how she received it, and her output is apparently much higher than Nanoha's. RH is still just an Intelligent Device, and custom made device =/= special lost artifact. So Bardiche isn't super-special either. Add to the fact that there's a major difference between Intelligent Devices, Armed Devices, and Storage Devices... Hayate's Devices are Armed and Storage (and Unison but that's yet again something else entirely). Ultimately RH still has nothing to do with Nanoha's level of power; it's not some Lost Logia in its own right.
I guess that all depends on how you define "special". From where I am standing, any Intelligent Device is special enough. And since Devices are a reflection of the power of the mages wielding them, the Aces' Devices are more special than Forwards' ones and so on. And as I indicated, I never insisted that RH is a Lost Logia or even of Belkan origin, especially given the lack of official info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
I heard somewhere that Hayate's power was supposedly on par with Nanoha's BEFORE Reinforce fused their Linker Cores together.

Any word on that?
AFAIK Hayate was just a muggle before merging with Rein.
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-02, 15:52   Link #3380
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Raising Heart is a mistery, we don't have any info on her origins, only that Yuuno hold it and it became Nanoha's main device and developed as a very succesfull ally over time. Maybe it's from special origin, being made from a jwel seed or something, maybe is an old weapon finded by the scrya clan.

Or maybe it has more mundane origins, but still it's a very powerfull device, it allowed a noobish Nanoha to keep up with an expert like Fate on their first fights(sure, Fate trashed Nanoha but the girl manage to briefly hold her own against her, for someone who's on it's first weeks as a mage that's an enormous accomplishement). If Raising Hart has no ancient or special origins i'm pretty sure that at least it was created by some really damn good Meister or being a state-of-the-art device at the time it was crafted. There's a lot of possibilities but the greatest of all misteries is this. We're told that Intelligent Devices are really difficult to master and most commonly those are fitted to work with the mage they been created for, Nanoha and RH instantly become inseparable and a force to be reckoned with. The statistical possibilities for that are astronomical.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...4 yeargo, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.