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Old 2011-08-02, 16:01   Link #3381
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
I guess that all depends on how you define "special". From where I am standing, any Intelligent Device is special enough. And since Devices are a reflection of the power of the mages wielding them, the Aces' Devices are more special than Forwards' ones and so on. And as I indicated, I never insisted that RH is a Lost Logia or even of Belkan origin, especially given the lack of official info.
I was mostly referring to how people consider RH to be a Lost Logia or similar, such as in the aforementioned omakes Nanya brought up, or similar to how Nanya turned RH into a remnant of Al-Hazard in his Blood That Flows fic. As far as that goes, RH is nothing special, not on that level.
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Old 2011-08-02, 20:50   Link #3382
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I was mostly referring to how people consider RH to be a Lost Logia or similar, such as in the aforementioned omakes Nanya brought up, or similar to how Nanya turned RH into a remnant of Al-Hazard in his Blood That Flows fic. As far as that goes, RH is nothing special, not on that level.
Well honestly what else are we suppose to think?

Rising Heart obviously couldn't have belong to Yuuno because he didn't even know how to use it properly and he never said where he got it. Adding in the fact that we know he worked at a dig site before he ran after the jewel seeds one can only assume that Yuuno got the rising heart from the very site he was working at.
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Old 2011-08-02, 20:56   Link #3383
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If that were the case, it would've been mentioned by now. Especially if it were something from the same place as the Jewel Seeds.

No, the mere fact that they haven't bothered to elaborate on its origins only reinforces that in the long run, RH is just what it is: a Device. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 2011-08-02, 21:06   Link #3384
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
AFAIK Hayate was just a muggle before merging with Rein.
1. IIRC there is no such thing in Nanohaverse, only different levels of power
2. And she definitely wasn't. Being chosen as book master specifically requires to be very powerful, after all 'ritters are summoned from book consuming it's new master linker core. And it was definitely mentioned (iirc by Vita) that "Hayate power can't be spotted because consumed by Book" or something like that when Nanoha and co was visiting her.

So... where you got that idea?
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Old 2011-08-02, 21:18   Link #3385
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If that were the case, it would've been mentioned by now. Especially if it were something from the same place as the Jewel Seeds.

No, the mere fact that they haven't bothered to elaborate on its origins only reinforces that in the long run, RH is just what it is: a Device. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well can't you at least keep an open mind and see that this theory might be a little sound?
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Old 2011-08-02, 21:23   Link #3386
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Well can't you at least keep an open mind and see that this theory might be a little sound?
Strictly speaking from canon, there's nothing really special about Raising Heart. All its abilities have shown up in other I.D.s throughout the show. Bardiche had the same recovery as RH did. Mach Calibur did take over Subaru's ability to fight against Ginga, which showed off M.C.'s ability to learn and grow.

Ability wise, there's nothing that RH has done that other devices didn't do. I mean, heck, Sacred Heart and Rio's device let them age artificially. And Tio gave Einhart a new hairstyle with new abilities. And there's Corona, who's device helps her make Golems.

So, yeah, it's not that there might not be anything special about Raising Heart, it's just that canon doesn't say that it's too special.
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Old 2011-08-02, 21:38   Link #3387
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I'm not saying it had to be an all godly powerful tool of destruction just that its really old and was dug out of the ground...
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Old 2011-08-02, 21:44   Link #3388
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Well can't you at least keep an open mind and see that this theory might be a little sound?
I would see it as sound if it was exactly that: sound. It's not. Fanfics and what not, sure, have a blast with crazy origins! I just don't see it happening in the canon.
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Old 2011-08-02, 22:12   Link #3389
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Well Rising Dragon I guess I'm going be one of the few the who believe this theory is possible...oh and after you mentioned Nany's fic started reading it really good work I must.
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Old 2011-08-02, 23:46   Link #3390
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Strictly speaking from canon, there's nothing really special about Raising Heart. All its abilities have shown up in other I.D.s throughout the show. Bardiche had the same recovery as RH did. Mach Calibur did take over Subaru's ability to fight against Ginga, which showed off M.C.'s ability to learn and grow.

Ability wise, there's nothing that RH has done that other devices didn't do. I mean, heck, Sacred Heart and Rio's device let them age artificially. And Tio gave Einhart a new hairstyle with new abilities. And there's Corona, who's device helps her make Golems.

So, yeah, it's not that there might not be anything special about Raising Heart, it's just that canon doesn't say that it's too special.
Let's take into consideration that most of those devices were created long time after Raising Heart, taking advantage of the recent advancements in technology(Mach & Blitz Caliber are pretty good examples, they take advantage of various technolgies developed thanks to years of investigation on the potential of the cartridge system and A.C.S discovered trought the battle with the Wolkenritter, before that, only fully trained Belkan knights like Zest and Schach were able to safely use the former, and the latter was designed as Nanoha & Raising Heart's first deadly upgrade).

While Raising Heart didn't have anything special in comparission with new, state-of-the-art devices like the ones wielded by the forwards, it's still interesting how it can keep up just fine with Bardiche, which is probably a much newer model than RH and also created and tuned with carefull precision by Linith. RH probably was a really good device at the moment of her "birth", seing her keeping up with a great pletora of much more modern devices(by the time of StrikerS, RH have nearly 11 years working with Nanoha and is still able to pull off feats of gargantuan proportions, surpassing current models by a wide margin), is a big proof of the finese invested on it's construction.

Vivio and Einhart Devices are a special case, they are at least 14 years newer than RH, and also are very advanced devices on their own right, looking more and more closer to the very advanced Unison Devices(while still looking like machines they are able to merge with their masters and gain able bodies constructed around it's main structure).

RH's is indeed just a device, but that not change the mistery of her origin. again, why is her so finely tuned to work with Nanoha. A fine and delicately constructed device like her working so fine with a random girl Yuuno encountered, i think it will be interesting to finally meet RH's Meister. As of Force is kind of pointless to invest plot on RH, but the movie continuity maybe can solve that for us.
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:02   Link #3391
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Aki, the Bureau was using Cartridge Systems long before it was installed on RH and Bardiche. They were just unreliable for Intelligent Devices. And let's face it--there's not a damn thing improvements in cartridge systems would've done for Mach and Blitz Calibur as neither of them use one in the first place.
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:10   Link #3392
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Aki, the Bureau was using Cartridge Systems long before it was installed on RH and Bardiche.
Really? Where?
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:15   Link #3393
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Really? Where?
Quint's Revolver Knuckles, Zest's spear...
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:17   Link #3394
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Aki, the Bureau was using Cartridge Systems long before it was installed on RH and Bardiche. They were just unreliable for Intelligent Devices. And let's face it--there's not a damn thing improvements in cartridge systems would've done for Mach and Blitz Calibur as neither of them use one in the first place.
While it's true cartridge system do exist at the time it isn't used conventionaly by Mid-style mages, only full trained Belkan knights were able to use it safely(because of the big strain the system provokes on a mage, i assume that's the reason why only armed Devices who are more resilent and wielded by physical-type mages). The cartridge system used on Cross Mirage are a revised, more safe version. Subaru and Ginga, being cyborgs, don't need to worry about the strain and Erio is a product of the Project Fate. But well, i'll wait for official info to support that because this is only speculation.

Leaving that aside, i find curious the design of the magazines used by the Revolver Knuckles, being a device used by an old officer like Quint make obvious that it isn't a new technology. There's any official data on Revolver Knuckle's cartridge type?
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:25   Link #3395
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Quint's Revolver Knuckles, Zest's spear...
Ah, sorry. when you said "Bureau" I accidentally assumed "Midchildan", because the comparison was with Raising Heart (unknown origin) and Bardiche (Mid)
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:29   Link #3396
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Hmm.. Quint's profile on the wikia classify her as a modern belka user which justifies the use of an armed device like Revolver Knuckle, since when the modern belka style was created?

The wikia said the system was developed after Nanoha and Fate succesfully adapted the cartridge system to their intelligent devices.

Time Paradox?
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:38   Link #3397
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From what I understand the cartridge system was around but never widely used until the TSAB figured out how to put it on intelligent devices which is where nanoha and fate came in at.
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:50   Link #3398
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...soooo, for all those years the TSAB were never driven enough to figure how to add the cartridge system to Intelligent Devices despite its potential...until two lolis demanded them to?
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:50   Link #3399
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...soooo, for all those years the TSAB were never driven enough to figure how to add the cartridge system despite its potential...until two lolis demanded them to?
Don't understimate their loli power xD
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:57   Link #3400
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1. IIRC there is no such thing in Nanohaverse, only different levels of power
Right. "Muggle" just means "knows nada about magic".

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2. And she definitely wasn't. Being chosen as book master specifically requires to be very powerful, after all 'ritters are summoned from book consuming it's new master linker core. And it was definitely mentioned (iirc by Vita) that "Hayate power can't be spotted because consumed by Book" or something like that when Nanoha and co was visiting her.

So... where you got that idea?
From the same logic you said: Hayate never practiced any magic before the merger, hence, she was a muggle. Also, I have discussed the topic of the origins of Hayate's mad power elsewhere and found two arguments for it being acquired: first is the stochastic likelihood, of two extremely powerful mages being born in the same city in the same year in a world normally devoid of magic. Second are Graham's words in episode 10 (when he explains about how he knows Hayate), which seem to imply it was he who somehow tricked the book into accepting Hayate as mistress. Which, in turn, would imply that Hayate's Linker Core (and she had one, see Sound Stages) didn't have to be as powerful as the previous masters'.
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