AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

View Poll Results: Is this sort "fishing" okay?
Yes. They are just animals... 13 33.33%
No. I don't think that is right. 26 66.67%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-03-13, 23:53   Link #61
ImClueless
Rawr
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by gummybear View Post
Now I am hungry from all the talk of KFC. The aroma is just so heavenly.....allll that grease and crispiness :drool:

It's true that I often get chicken that have bones which are partially healed. So they much have been broken on the farm. FYI debeaking is a process that is common for most chickens on any farm (expect maybe pet chickens/hobby farms). This is to prevent the chickens from pecking each other to death and cannibalizing each other. The part where she talk about a "pecking order" is true. Chickens will peck each other a lot.

I hope PETA will get Pam to come back to her home province to conduct one of their nude anti-fur protests and announce it beforehand so I can attend and "support" their cause.
__________________
ImClueless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-13, 23:57   Link #62
Sazelyt
F i n
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewok View Post
They know its wrong - they try their damnest to keep people with cameras out. The average Japanese person loves dolphins and would feel as sick and angered by this footage as anyone else, so its kept tightly under wraps. Sad innit?

Just remember this video is not representative of Japanese people, merely a small group of people who do this horrible act.
They didn't look like a small group of people, more like a town of people. Hence, if there is one town like that, unless it is someplace like the ones from horror stories, then I doubt it is the only one.

And, if there are more places like that, then I see the state as the sole responsible entity here for not enforcing the rules or not preventing that from happening. Also, if there are many villages like that, then, I think, we can make a pretty safe generalization that the people in such villages do not care who is get killed in the sea, for whatever the reason is, as long as it is not human. They can love as much as they like them when they are alive, but, it is highly possible that they don't feel any guilt when they are get killed.

Unfortunately, there are many similar massacres taking place around the world (the Canadians are highly popular in that aspect, but, I will forgive them, as they live in one of the poorest countries in the world and they need that money coming from the seals only to survive!), and the governments are not very active in stopping that.
Sazelyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 00:19   Link #63
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chickens are pretty damn low on the cuddle-o-meter, so I really don't care what the boobies have to say.

Killing a dolphin is like killing a kitten. They're cute and cuddly and make people smile with their mere presence and chirping. There are some animals that simply should not be eaten, and animals high on the cuddle-o-meter should not be eaten. We eat chickens because they're ugly. We eat beef because cows are ugly.

We don't eat kittens because it's better to hold them and have them purr in our laps and pet their fluffy warm fur rather than eat them.

Same deal with dolphins. They're a pleasure to watch and be around when they're happily chirping. Why kill them?
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 00:30   Link #64
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
We don't eat kittens because it's better to hold them and have them purr in our laps and pet their fluffy warm fur rather than eat them.
Newsflash...Many cultures (For whatever reasons predominatley Asian) eat baby kittens as if it were on the Mickey D's dollar menu...Poor cats gets skinned and boiled to death (As I've seen on a few Discovery specials so can the political correctness because I don't mean to suggest any one race of people do this, just what I've seen)...


Quote:
Why kill them?
Because "baby" gotta eat...
__________________
Fly since ...

Last edited by wingdarkness; 2007-03-14 at 00:41.
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 00:39   Link #65
Cloudkiller1
Spina~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where do I live?
Hm..not much different from how I kill cows here for partys and such. And about that video, if its really that bad, why don't we have a ban on killing/eating dolphins there? It's because we can't. Hell, humans are considered a food source as well in some countries, though which I'm not sure of. So, were no different. Neither is Shamoo, though another another note, I thought there would be more a uproar about this. I've tried most if not all meat(yes, cats and dogs too), and they're not half bad. Though I would love to see a veggies prespective on this.
__________________

Girls are preparing new signature, please wait warmly.
Cloudkiller1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 00:42   Link #66
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Newsflash...Many cultures (For whatever reasons predominatley Asian) eat baby kittens as if it were on the Mickey D's dollar menu...Poor cats gets skinned and boiled to death (As I've seen on a few Discovery specials so can the political correctness because I don't mean to suggest any one race of people do this, just what I've seen)...




Because "baby" gotta eat...
That's just horrible.

I'm going with the American ignore-the-rest-of-the-world-because-they're-insignificant viewpoint.

Killing kittens is worse than the killing of another human being.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 00:55   Link #67
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Killing kittens is worse than the killing of another human being.
Sympathy from a guy that names himself after a god of demons...Rich...,quite rich...

As I said before it's the natural order of things and honestly right now the only cat that's caught my attention is that damn "Rap-Cat" from the Rally commercials LMAO (www.rap-cat.com) ...Now that kitty's better than half the rap artists out today xD...Rap-artists' that claim to have killed people, but by your own admission that's pennies in the wishing well compared to your compassion for fried felines ...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 02:25   Link #68
Red Herring
SPARTANS
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Killing kittens is worse than the killing of another human being.

Hell no.


Hell.

No.

...

No further rebuttal necessary.
Red Herring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 05:20   Link #69
WanderingKnight
Gregory House
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 25
Send a message via MSN to WanderingKnight
Quote:
Killing kittens is worse than the killing of another human being.
Man, get your priorities straight. The cat's cuteness won't save you from starvation.
__________________


Place them in a box until a quieter time | Lights down, you up and die.
WanderingKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 07:26   Link #70
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fome View Post
@Jinto Lin

Even with your examples, I still see everything as primarily fear driven. But before I start, let my clarify my definition of fear. It is the desire to avoid some sort of pain. And I equate pain with the absence of pleasure. In others, you feel bad whenever you don't feel good.

When I view others as extensions of myself, I cannot harm them because I fear harming myself. And when you try to give meaning to your life and fight for it, it is driven by the fear of a meaningless life, which is really a groundless fear, since life has no meaning. In any case, you seek pleasure, which is the absence of pain, but you can easily feel pleasure without giving yourself any purpose. I live everday in a out just existing, feeling the results of countless chemical reactions that deliver to me the sensation of pleasure. I don't pretend it's anything else. If you think I live a shallow life, you must also believe you are living a more meaningful (and by extension happier) life, in which case I would ask you kindly to quantify your happiness and compare it with mine.
From my point of view, one cannot feel good, without feeling pain too.

If you want to see the world fear driven, that is okay for me. I won't force you to understand the concept of principle driven acting. Which is defined by what defines yourself, what was defined by others/environment.
Btw. I don't quantify pleasure. How should that work anyway?
I just have fundamental principles which define myself, if I'ld give up on them, I'ld give up the most important things I beliefe in (and I am living according to). Giving up myself in this process, makes me indifferent in a way, that it doesn't matter if I exist or not. Its not that I "fear" to be indifferent. Its just that, if I am indifferent, there is no reason to live (at least I don't see any). If I can choose between "having a reason to live and die" and "having no reason to live and live", I'ld take the first one.
Now you could argue, that I just fear to lose the reason to live. But the point is, I don't have to fear it, its a fact. Its unavoidable one way or the other.

Being indifferent, truely provides no meaning for life. But one is free to choose, whether he/she wants to live the life of a indifferent personality or not. If you do not want to create/adapt a meaning for your life, than thats fine for you. You really should not imply, everyone basically thinks like you (or is moronic to search for a meaning for their lifes/fundamental principles).

*sigh* I know that was totally off topic again (my last ot post in this thread, promised)

Last edited by Jinto; 2007-03-14 at 07:38.
Jinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 08:42   Link #71
Fome
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Hey Jinto,

Ok one last response. I may have implied that it's foolish to search for meaning, but my take on it is not necessarily bad. In a world with no standards, I don't care who you do. But I argue nonetheless, a result of me merely exercising my existance. I was joking about you "quantifying" your happiness, as this is impossible. I was trying to suggest that no one can say that they are happier than another.
Fome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 11:50   Link #72
Corn
Gotta kill 'em all!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denmark
Cats are my favorite animal. But yes... I am cool with people eating them. You can eat them right in front of me, and it will be okay.

I don't care, what kind of animal you eat... Hell.. even if you ate a dead human being, I would not protest.

I am merely saying, that suffering animals is not okay. Eating them is okay.


And thats the main point... I dont care if you eat dolphins or cats or dogs or humans. I just don't think they should suffer.

I feel confident in saying that my goverment, does not allow cows and chickens to feel pain, bleed to death or be sufforcated. They die instantly, and without pain.

So thats how I feel...

I am not trying to slam japanese culture, but I think its very wrong to think that this is just okay because it's does native fishermans traditions to do so. That does not make it right or okay.

We are the nr. 1 predator, and we are allowed to eat who and what we want, in this position. However - We should make sure, that the things we eat and kill for personal benefit at least are not suffering, and at least does not become extinct(over fishing. Dolphins are nearing extinction, I heard...?)!

So yeah.. Lets eat dolphins. thats nice. I wanna taste Shishami or what it is called. I just don't want to eat an dolphin that was dragged for miles as it slowely died. THAT is cruel.

It's not cruel to eat food. Homo sapians are meat eaters. It's one of the main reasons who our brains have developed. All that protine. We deserve to call the animals of the world our food. But we don't joke or play around with that food. We should respect the food, and make sure that there is new food on the table(read: sea) tomorrow.

I know that it's a piss poor analogy, but please try to understand. I am not a animal activist...
Corn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 12:59   Link #73
Knightmare213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
@Fome: That's why I apologized in advance. I came here to discuss, not insult and bash people who follows a different philosophy.

@Corn: I completely agree with you. As an omnivore species, humans do reserve the right to eat anything. However, because we have the ability to think rationally, we should think what our consequences would be if we killed too many dolphins, cows, and chickens alike, as well as how we kill them and eat them.

I'm not sure if I can support PETA after reading that Maddox article. Actually, I never really believed what they said anyway...

As for the status of dolphin extinction, right now, some of the dolphins are already extinct. The latest one that was found extinct is the Yangtze River Dolphin. Some of the whale species are already extinct or dangerously endangered.
Knightmare213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 13:16   Link #74
Sazelyt
F i n
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightmare213 View Post
@Corn: I completely agree with you. As an omnivore species, humans do reserve the right to eat anything. However, because we have the ability to think rationally, we should think what our consequences would be if we killed too many dolphins, cows, and chickens alike, as well as how we kill them and eat them.
Humans do not hunt just for eating. Here, another nice video from Peta, this time the massacre takes place with the full support from the Canadian government, and the act was supported using only lies.

Since the Canadian Government officially support that massacre, the animals getting killed in such a brutal way, for the sake of providing pleasure to a group of people - not for the sake of survival, I really doubt they have the right to go against that kind of killing, even if it takes place among the humans.

You are saying humans have the right to eat anything, that also translates to have the right to kill anything, including another omnivore species, the humans. And, the reasoning used by those animal hunters can be easily used for that actions too. Also, the problem is not just hunting, it is the way the hunters used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn View Post
I don't care, what kind of animal you eat... Hell.. even if you ate a dead human being, I would not protest.
What you say also means killing humans in a painless way for the sake of eating should also be ok. If you think that way, imagine a person that you like was used for that purpose by a group of people. Do you really feel ok? At the end, the stronger ones would have eaten the weaker one, using their right to eat anything they desire.
Sazelyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 14:48   Link #75
Knightmare213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
@Sazelyt: I mentioned this massacre in my first post on this thread. Like I said, killing the seals in the Arctic is actually good for the environment. Overpopulation of a predator species tends to lead toward the extinction of a lower species. And if that same species went extinct, its all over for that predator species.

And yes...I sure as hell know that we don't hunt either for fun or for some eating. Depending on what moral side you're on, you'll either bash the massacre or simply sympathize it.


Also, I seemed to have forgotten to consider whether cannibalism is bad or not. Well...it is. Just because you're killing an animal painlessly, that doesn't mean that we can eat it. Just because we execute a criminal painlessly, that doesn't mean that we should not have a problem eating their body. Even though humans can reserve the right to eat anything, that doesn't meant that we should be using the right to eat everything, including our own species.
Knightmare213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 15:17   Link #76
Sazelyt
F i n
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightmare213 View Post
@Sazelyt: I mentioned this massacre in my first post on this thread. Like I said, killing the seals in the Arctic is actually good for the environment. Overpopulation of a predator species tends to lead toward the extinction of a lower species. And if that same species went extinct, its all over for that predator species.
I am not sure about that theory. Currently, the most dangerous species in the world is humans, there is no other species that is more dangerous than humans to force other species becoming extinct, directly or indirectly. As opposed to what you claim, to me, it seems that kind of unnatural hunting would cause a lot more problems at the end than compared to not hunting them. And, even if their living affects the lives of the other species, it will be taken care of by the nature later on, by forcing them to hunger and reduce their numbers in a natural way, not like this.

And, I believe, that seals were there, even long before your ancestors moved to Canada, and the other species survived despite not hunting them, right? And, what if the species that rely on the seals' survival start to decline (not the ones the seals are eating, but the ones lower in the chain), and create a non-returnable damage in the future.

We, the humans, walk around mightily as we own the nature (as if we are the one who should decide on who lives and who dies), but, soon, it will own us, and then it will be too late, to correct our mistakes.

Quote:
And yes...I sure as hell know that we don't hunt either for fun or for some eating. Depending on what moral side you're on, you'll either bash the massacre or simply sympathize it.
I believe, as we, you refer to Canadian people. Is hunting for fur (or money or profit) is a much better excuse than hunting for fun? I sure know that your people do not need the money coming from that furs, and I sure know that your people won't die of hunger if that hunt stops. Right? In that case, I really hardly see any excuse to justify that act.

Quote:
Even though humans can reserve the right to eat anything, that doesn't meant that we should be using the right to eat everything, including our own species.
Yes, there should be a logical reason behind that kind of killing and eating. And, for the stuff that I observe, I cannot see any kind of logical reason, other than money (and we are not talking about a poor African country here to support that logical reason, we are talking about one of the richest countries in the world).
Sazelyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 16:04   Link #77
ImClueless
Rawr
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
As Canadian I feel I have to pop in and set the record straight on the whole seal hunt thing and try in enlighten some of the people who seem to get the only information from the likes of PETA.

Yes the seal hunt is conducted with the full support of the Canadian government. Yes they do club/shoot the seals. Yes the seals are being hunted for their fur.

However, the hunting of the white pup seals that you always see in the ads is actually banned and has been for 20 years. The seals that generally get killed are weaned adolescents. The people who hunt the seals are NOT rich at all. Yes, Canada as a whole is quite wealthy, but in the northern regions people are actually quite poor and there are few economic opportunities. Are you suggesting people should give up their livelihoods just because people in southern California who are totally ignorant of your situation said so?

PETA claims that the seal hunt is unsustainable or that the seal hunt is being conducted to help fish stocks. Well I would rather believe in scientific data from from publicly funded sources than people funded by the likes of Pam Anderson and Paul McCartney. I know and have known people from our federal government science programs and believe you me most of them are not being "bought" or pressured. On the contrary public funded scientists carry less baggage since they don't have to worry about their next paychecks or where their funding is gonna come from.

However, I would agree that hunting seals is not saving the fish. Ideally if we humans left everything alone, things would be hunky-dory, but reality is being have to earn a living and put food on the table for their families. As long as it is sustainable seals should be and are treated as a natural resource to be exploited.
__________________
ImClueless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 16:27   Link #78
Sazelyt
F i n
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImClueless View Post
The seals that generally get killed are weaned adolescents. The people who hunt the seals are NOT rich at all. Yes, Canada as a whole is quite wealthy, but in the northern regions people are actually quite poor and there are few economic opportunities. Are you suggesting people should give up their livelihoods just because people in southern California who are totally ignorant of your situation said so?

...but reality is being have to earn a living and put food on the table for their families. As long as it is sustainable seals should be and are treated as a natural resource to be exploited.
Yes, I would have done that (force them to stop doing that), if the things they are doing are wrong and cruel. In your opinion, most probably, you wouldn't mind if those people start growing marihuana, or export heroin to other countries, just because they are poor, and the other options they have wouldn't have made them earn enough money and bring food to their home.

Sorry, but, that is just a pretty poor excuse. And, don't say me that the government is too helpless to provide more acceptable opportunities for that people. I don't think it is impossible to create some kind of industry in areas close to where those people live, and make them earn money, in a less arguable way.

Quote:
I know and have known people from our federal government science programs and believe you me most of them are not being "bought" or pressured. On the contrary public funded scientists carry less baggage since they don't have to worry about their next paychecks or where their funding is gonna come from.
It won't be the first time that a scientist would evaluate the results of a research in favor of the government and the state he works for, especially if we are talking about probabilistic results. Or, considering what we have observed in USA - and a country doing whatever it takes to protect its own profits, it is even possible that these people might corrupt the results of their research. And, I doubt, if that is the case, you will be given accurate information even by your friends.
Sazelyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 16:45   Link #79
kitto-chan
很快是工程師
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ゴミ箱の存在の他の平野
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn View Post
I am merely saying, that suffering animals is not okay. Eating them is okay.
All cats make their prey suffer before they feast. All cats instinctly go straight for the throat. They crush the preys windpipe until the animal stop. Alligator drown their victim before tearing them up. I constitute that as animal cruelty, can we ban cats or alligators from this?


Quote:
I feel confident in saying that my goverment, does not allow cows and chickens to feel pain, bleed to death or be sufforcated. They die instantly, and without pain.
Not possible since you need the animal to be slaughter to bleed first. So the must be alive (not necessarily conscince but alive so their heart can still be beating. Also how would you instantly kill a lobster or crab. Ever seen how a lobster is cooked at Red Lobster?


Quote:
I am not trying to slam japanese culture, but I think its very wrong to think that this is just okay because it's does native fishermans traditions to do so. That does not make it right or okay.
How is this different from american or european or canadian shipping boat? We net up the fish throw them on ice and let them suffocate from lack of oxygen. Remember fish needs to have water pass over the gills to breath. I also constitute this as a form of animal cruelty. So should we ban fishing boats?


Personal I don't care how an animal is killed, and I care little about philoposhy(yeah i can't spell), but I will eat anything that at one point lived on the ground whether it be plant or animal, and possibly human (if I trap on a fridge iceland and the store is drained for over 1 week).

If its for survival, I garanutee that everyone of you will resort to measure unimaginable (including the worst) just to survive.

The japanese fish dolphine, it's their livelihood, their survival. Stripe them of that and what do you get? Who will pay for their clothings? Who will pay for their children's needs? So before we go and picket anyone, put yourself in their shoes.
kitto-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-14, 18:41   Link #80
ImClueless
Rawr
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Yes, I would have done that (force them to stop doing that), if the things they are doing are wrong and cruel. In your opinion, most probably, you wouldn't mind if those people start growing marihuana, or export heroin to other countries, just because they are poor, and the other options they have wouldn't have made them earn enough money and bring food to their home.

Sorry, but, that is just a pretty poor excuse. And, don't say me that the government is too helpless to provide more acceptable opportunities for that people. I don't think it is impossible to create some kind of industry in areas close to where those people live, and make them earn money, in a less arguable way.

It won't be the first time that a scientist would evaluate the results of a research in favor of the government and the state he works for, especially if we are talking about probabilistic results. Or, considering what we have observed in USA - and a country doing whatever it takes to protect its own profits, it is even possible that these people might corrupt the results of their research. And, I doubt, if that is the case, you will be given accurate information even by your friends.
LOL making drugs isn't the same thing at all and thats just about the most ludicrous comparison I heard of regarding the seal hunt. Drugs harm other people, seal hunting does not and in my book the well being of humans comes before animals every time when the animals are not threatened with the danger of extinction.

I don't know where you are from, but are you even aware of what kind of place Canada is or do you just believe the news blindly? People who live in those areas are hundreds if not thousands of kilometers away from major urban and industrial centres. What kind of industry do you want them to have? Are they all supposed to go on the dole? Well most of them have more self-respect than that. They have fishing and hunting thats it. You can't even have logging or farming because they are often above the tree line and its too damn cold.

As for believing in the government, what makes you think that the environmentalists are oh so innocent and altruistic? Don't kid yourself because the environmental movement is a major industry. There are thousands of people being employed by the environmental lobby and thousands more becoming rich off of it. Frankly I'd rather believe in scientists whose research is being funded by public tax dollars than those whose research is being funded by organizations with fundamental ideological agendas (like PETA).
__________________
ImClueless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.