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Old 2007-04-12, 20:34   Link #81
toru310
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@Jinto Lin Ermm yeah c: is the much more older drive it came with the pc soo I think it's about 12months old...and the d drive is 3months old.. about the program aida32 how can I make my pc stable..?

@Ledgem actually I really don't want to try memtest yet I will just do it if a have a professional with me. Anyway yeah firewalls are up.

Now the trauma is out for now.."whew" I think I want to switch with linux I mean I think It does not crash as much as windows.

The reason that I want to defrag a drive is so the actuator can move less stressy I mean I've been removing files that are corrupt(files that I got during recovery) Anyway I was planning to do a clean format in the future but not today because my drives suffered before.
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Old 2007-04-12, 23:29   Link #82
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
@Ledgem actually I really don't want to try memtest yet I will just do it if a have a professional with me. Anyway yeah firewalls are up.
A professional with you? Memtest is probably one of the easiest diagnostic programs you can run. Just stick it into your drive, reboot, and then tell it what tests you want to run. It doesn't touch your system, it just tests your RAM. If your RAM is unstable, trust me on this, you really want to know about it. Data corruption and system instability are results of bad RAM. If you have bad RAM, you want to replace it ASAP.

Quote:
Now the trauma is out for now.."whew" I think I want to switch with linux I mean I think It does not crash as much as windows.
Well, you're welcome to switch to Linux (I'm in the process of learning Linux, myself), but the software is only one part of the equation: if you're using unstable hardware, your software will be unstable as well. You don't build a house on top of a crappy foundation, right? Anyway, Linux is pretty different from Windows. In a way, I think it's funner. If you're into learning about computers, you'll love it. It's stressful if your data is on the line, but just back your stuff up to a separate drive and you're fine. Once you get really good with Linux, no software issues can really take you down, because you can always access the OS and fix things (whether by terminal (no graphics) or by LiveCD). But for newbies like you and me, that's still a bit too advanced (except for the LiveCD, but I don't know that we'd know how to go about making repairs).

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The reason that I want to defrag a drive is so the actuator can move less stressy I mean I've been removing files that are corrupt(files that I got during recovery) Anyway I was planning to do a clean format in the future but not today because my drives suffered before.
Please don't worry about your HD like that. It's there to be used. If the drive were nearing the end of its lifespan, I could understand you wanting to treat it as if it were an old man in the midst of his retirement. Otherwise, put it to work. You bought it, didn't you? Are you going to let it go to waste like that? I have five drives, and only one of them gets the retirement treatment, because it's about seven years old and lately it's been getting louder than usual. Don't limit your computer activities because you want to be nice to your components. They're not organic, and they don't have feelings (sorry if I'm shattering anyone's dreams here ;P ). Your computer is a tool, and if you're not able to use it to the max that you could, then you either need to reconfigure it, or get a new one. Don't be afraid to push its limits. Just be smart about it (for example, making the hard drive work 24/7 for no good reason isn't smart, and I can't imagine why you'd need to do that).
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Old 2007-04-13, 01:15   Link #83
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
@Jinto Lin Ermm yeah c: is the much more older drive it came with the pc soo I think it's about 12months old...and the d drive is 3months old.. about the program aida32 how can I make my pc stable..?
The Aida program does not make your PC more stable. However, it can provide detailed informations about your components. The information could help to find the cause for your problem(s).
And please run that memtest (at least one complete test loop). Failure free RAM is essential for a stable system.
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Old 2007-04-13, 03:32   Link #84
toru310
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Originally Posted by Jinto Lin View Post
The Aida program does not make your PC more stable. However, it can provide detailed informations about your components. The information could help to find the cause for your problem(s).
And please run that memtest (at least one complete test loop). Failure free RAM is essential for a stable system.
When I looked at the aida program 449ram was used I think.. I'm using 768ram pretty weird actually.

well what Jinto Lin said I guess I should back up my files in a cd/dvd just to be sure...


You said that memtest do scan you ram....How can I do a complete test loop? you said that it a continues loop meaning there's no end?? I just have to hit esc to stop the program and reboots?

I'm sorry again I get elaborate it properly again..After this I'll be more serious...

edit: Umm in defragmenting a hard drive do you think it's dangerous to fragment a drive 12months old? Because I never defragmented my drive before....because you guys said that when a pc crash all the files will kinda get's messed up..so I just want to use defragmenting tool to put them all together....I mean I think there's so many fragmented things in my drive...found pretty cool and scary videos...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA2ChPN7b18 -side note how can that happen to me??


Another question I think it's wise If I put the 512mb ram in the first slot so that it can be stable because right now it's in the second slot..I mean the 224mb drive is at the first slot and the 512mb in the 2nd...Im not pretty
sure...



@ledgem Im sorry I misread you post..and darn that's some speech I'm beginning to cry ahahaha words from another pro..And yeah I'm noticing that I'm letting the computer manipulate me to much..I have to be the boss..hehehe thanks!!!

Last edited by toru310; 2007-04-13 at 08:35.
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Old 2007-04-13, 16:42   Link #85
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
You said that memtest do scan you ram....How can I do a complete test loop? you said that it a continues loop meaning there's no end?? I just have to hit esc to stop the program and reboots?
Unless something has changed, you can choose from a variety of tests to run. They're all stress tests of different sorts. They aren't designed to help you diagnose what the exact problem is with the RAM; even if we knew what the problem was, it's faulty hardware, and we can't fix that. Rather, it stresses the RAM in many ways so that, if there IS a problem, it's more likely to become apparent. If you have ANY problems with your RAM, it's a sign that the stick is bad, and you want to remove it from your system at the very least (replacing it is a nicer option). If your system is under warranty, you may be able to get the RAM replaced without any cost to you, except maybe for shipping.

Quote:
edit: Umm in defragmenting a hard drive do you think it's dangerous to fragment a drive 12months old? Because I never defragmented my drive before....because you guys said that when a pc crash all the files will kinda get's messed up..so I just want to use defragmenting tool to put them all together....I mean I think there's so many fragmented things in my drive...found pretty cool and scary videos...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA2ChPN7b18 -side note how can that happen to me??
For the video that you linked to, it seems to be an older system. Not to say that hardware problems can't plague modern systems, but I've never heard of that before. Anyway, someone responded to the video saying that it seemed to be a CMOS issue, and I'd agree. The give-away is the fact that, during the BIOS boot sequence, it says "configuration updated" - usually the configuration only updates if new hardware (such as RAM) has been added, or if the configuration had been lost. Your motherboard contains a watch-like battery on it, and that is dedicated to powering things like your computer's internal clock, and the memory of the configuration. When your CMOS battery dies, your clock will change to random times (and dates, and years), and every time you restart the computer, the configuration will need to re-update. The narrator for that video was pretty annoying.

Don't watch videos like that. It's like watching videos of people with Ebola, and then worrying all the time that you might catch Ebola. Yeah, it could happen to you, but the chances are so slim that you're just wasting your time worrying about it.

As for defragging, go ahead and do it. Defragging a drive isn't a big deal. Sure, the drive is kept busy with activity for a few hours, but who cares? Do you think the drive isn't working when you're listening to music, or playing a video game? You're worrying way too much about breaking your hard drive. This reminds me of my girlfriend - she had this thing about keeping windows open, because her mother had passed on a belief to her that if you didn't, you'd suffocate. Better damn well bet that in New York we keep our windows closed tight and insulated during the winter, when's the last time you heard of one of us suffocating? For that matter, when has anyone suffocated in a house or car due to keeping the windows closed (excluding if they were working with sulfur, or carbon monoxide)? Exactly, never. So I put the same to you: when's the last time you heard of someone breaking their hard drive from using it for extended periods of time? Exactly, never. So quit worrying.

Quote:
Another question I think it's wise If I put the 512mb ram in the first slot so that it can be stable because right now it's in the second slot..I mean the 224mb drive is at the first slot and the 512mb in the 2nd...Im not pretty
sure...
Unless there's something wrong with your motherboard's RAM slots, it shouldn't make one bit of difference. If you want to get technical, I can give you some very specific situations where it could make a difference. But I think most of us here have been giving you very technical "but this could happen" scenarios, and you're getting stressed out over them. So, if you want to know, go ahead and ask. But otherwise, know this: the answer is no, it doesn't matter.

Quote:
@ledgem Im sorry I misread you post..and darn that's some speech I'm beginning to cry ahahaha words from another pro..And yeah I'm noticing that I'm letting the computer manipulate me to much..I have to be the boss..hehehe thanks!!!
Someday you'll gain confidence over them, and you'll be helping people with their computers. These are the first steps you take. There's nothing wrong with being afraid of tinkering with the computer when you don't fully understand how it works, especially since we put so much of ourselves into the computer and require it for many daily functions. Just don't be afraid to move forward, and remind yourself that no matter what happens with it, it's not the end.
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Old 2007-04-14, 01:37   Link #86
toru310
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I'll be doing memtest now...wish me luck I'll also take footage of the actual program...huhu this is so nerve wrecking...
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Old 2007-04-14, 04:37   Link #87
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
As for defragging, go ahead and do it. Defragging a drive isn't a big deal.
If done only once and not several times in a row.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Sure, the drive is kept busy with activity for a few hours, but who cares? Do you think the drive isn't working when you're listening to music, or playing a video game?
The drive is working there too, but if one listens carefully, there are many breaks for the drive (timeslots where it is unused or only lightly used). Usually a game or music doesn't constantly use the full bandwidth of the drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
You're worrying way too much about breaking your hard drive. This reminds me of my girlfriend - she had this thing about keeping windows open, because her mother had passed on a belief to her that if you didn't, you'd suffocate. Better damn well bet that in New York we keep our windows closed tight and insulated during the winter, when's the last time you heard of one of us suffocating? For that matter, when has anyone suffocated in a house or car due to keeping the windows closed (excluding if they were working with sulfur, or carbon monoxide)? Exactly, never. So I put the same to you: when's the last time you heard of someone breaking their hard drive from using it for extended periods of time? Exactly, never. So quit worrying.
Well I think that comparison does not fit quite well. Because constant stress can harm a drive. Though I neither want a person to overreact about it or completely ignore it... One has to know which applications actually harm a drive.
I've seen, that some of my friends killed their drives by using early BT clients (or similar download tools), that did not have options like file preallocation, or caches. They fragmented their drives with these tools to an extent, that sequential reading/writing on that drive became impossible. In an attempt to defrag such a cluttered up drive (which takes usually several days) some (!! not all or many... some) of them killed their drives. (If one has enough space, it is better to copy all files to another drive (but no diskimaging or things like dd - because they will keep the files fragmented when copying). Then formating the drive, and then copying the files back... the copy function of e.g. windows explorer tries to write as sequential as possible - depends on the fragmentation of the drive where the file is written to).

So what is the conclusion? If you defrag your drive often, the sustained stress per defragmentation is low, thus the probality that it will take harm in the process is low too. If one doesn't defrag a drive for years, and it is very fragmented as a result (>50% overall fragmentation / >75% file fragmentation), then one might want to try the copy method instead (if it is the system drive that is to be copied, then there is more that need to be taken care of, but I don't want to get too much into details now)

In your case Migufuchi Fusutsu, I say, do the defragmentation. I mean you can halt it anytime you want. You just should not work on the PC while it is defragmenting. And if it is not done after 2 hours give it a little break (just so that it cools down back to normal temperatures it usually operates on... needs like 15 minutes I assume) and then let it proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Unless there's something wrong with your motherboard's RAM slots, it shouldn't make one bit of difference. If you want to get technical, I can give you some very specific situations where it could make a difference. But I think most of us here have been giving you very technical "but this could happen" scenarios, and you're getting stressed out over them. So, if you want to know, go ahead and ask. But otherwise, know this: the answer is no, it doesn't matter.
Thats the real problem here. Migufuchi Fusutsu, you should not be frightened of the things that might happen. One can be careful, but to be paranoid about the things doesn't help either. The hdd is build to take some stress. Its just, that the risk that it fails will be higher, if the sustained stress is going on for a long period of time (without a break).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Someday you'll gain confidence over them, and you'll be helping people with their computers. These are the first steps you take. There's nothing wrong with being afraid of tinkering with the computer when you don't fully understand how it works, especially since we put so much of ourselves into the computer and require it for many daily functions. Just don't be afraid to move forward, and remind yourself that no matter what happens with it, it's not the end.
Thats right, doing nothing means, one doesn't actively make errors (but does not learn something either).
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Old 2007-04-14, 20:02   Link #88
toru310
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@Jinto Lin thanks for the defrag information I almost defrag my drive with out a break...close call....
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Old 2007-04-18, 07:33   Link #89
toru310
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Regarding crashes: when a pc crash will the hard drive become fragmented because of the crash??? I'll settle with a yes n no with an explanation. hehe
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Old 2007-04-18, 10:17   Link #90
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Yes. It can also cause file corruption and a few other things.
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Old 2007-04-19, 02:13   Link #91
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Wow...so I really need to defragment my drive before I move my files to the other hard drive... thanks
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Old 2007-04-19, 07:44   Link #92
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Depends on how you move them. If you use the copy function of explorer, the result written will be always defragmented/sequential (given the target drive is not itself fragmented).
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Old 2007-04-19, 08:25   Link #93
toru310
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Originally Posted by Jinto Lin View Post
Depends on how you move them. If you use the copy function of explorer, the result written will be always defragmented/sequential (given the target drive is not itself fragmented).
Wow! Thank for the info that helps me from getting out off my problem...now there just this thing bothering me when defragmenting a 160gb hard drive problem is I don't know how long it will be finished...currently the spaced occupied is 56gb..

If there's no limit with giving reps you'll get 20 already!! hehe

Edit: can memtest still detect a bad ram even if it's freshly formated with windows installed?
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Old 2007-04-19, 09:01   Link #94
Jinto
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Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Wow! Thank for the info that helps me from getting out off my problem...now there just this thing bothering me when defragmenting a 160gb hard drive problem is I don't know how long it will be finished...currently the spaced occupied is 56gb..
Its not a matter of file space taken. Its a matter of fragmentation (how much are the files scattered over your hard drive). If you use the Windows tool for defragmentation it will give you an overview in Mbyte of what needs to be defragmented (then calculate with approx. 5 Mbyte/second for semi fragmented stuff and like 1.5 Mbyte/sec for heavily fragmented stuff)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu View Post
Edit: can memtest still detect a bad ram even if it's freshly formated with windows installed?
Memtest detects bad RAM no matter what you installed on the PC. Memtest has its own operating system and stuff, so it does not utilize any installed software (Memtest works completely stand alone).
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Old 2007-04-20, 01:25   Link #95
toru310
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Originally Posted by Jinto Lin View Post
Its not a matter of file space taken. Its a matter of fragmentation (how much are the files scattered over your hard drive). If you use the Windows tool for defragmentation it will give you an overview in Mbyte of what needs to be defragmented (then calculate with approx. 5 Mbyte/second for semi fragmented stuff and like 1.5 Mbyte/sec for heavily fragmented stuff)



Memtest detects bad RAM no matter what you installed on the PC. Memtest has its own operating system and stuff, so it does not utilize any installed software (Memtest works completely stand alone).
@memtest: If there's no error or bad ram there you can't see the failing addresses?(the hight lighted red?)
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Old 2007-04-20, 04:42   Link #96
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Well, if you waited until at least one loop is complete you can say so. There will be progression information given (upper right corner), so you know when a test loop is done.
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Old 2007-04-23, 04:41   Link #97
toru310
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@Jinto Lin : yeah!!! Fixed my pc and it's not crashing anymore...the problem was the darn rams and it turns out that 2 of my rams are broken(just bought a generic ram not branded) So basically have to spend 64$ just to buy a new ram...and bought a casing that so cool there's a big fan for the hard drives...hehe so I can have extreme care..yeah!! memtest rocks with this I can't get fooled with does people who sell bad rams...!! wohoo but sadly used all my money....huhuhu oh well Atleast my pc don't crash anymore!!
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Old 2007-04-23, 05:45   Link #98
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I am glad you found the faulty components.
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Old 2007-04-23, 10:28   Link #99
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Gotta love failing RAM. Mine's due for a replacement as well. I can tell my computer's starting to falter.
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Old 2007-04-23, 15:22   Link #100
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err.. there was a thread here somewhere but.. since i am OP..

I encountered the dreaded cpu usage = 100% whenever i move my mouse / run azureus or mozilla.

Heck, it lags hard even when im not running anything. I didnt have this problem before, only after i left my winamp to replay for 8 hours playing .flac after that it started to get laggy doing anything. typing is also quite laggy >,>

ad-aware doesnt sense any spyware/malware and housecall said i dont have any issues.

any ideas?
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