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Old 2010-04-16, 14:39   Link #2381
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Which is no different from kevlar vests, which still makes it a pretty good achievement in itself.
Yes and no. Kevlar is made in such a way as to distribute the force of the impact over a wider area. So Kevlar does absorb quite a bit of the kinetic impact, as well as stopping the bullet from penetrating; but not all of it. While this shirt-like material doesn't distribute the kinetic impact very much; it's just impenetrable. This stuff is more for coating vehicles and aircraft.

I assume barrier jackets use magic to channel at least some of the kinetic impact force off elsewhere so it it doesn't kill you, but you can still be knocked around.
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Old 2010-05-07, 02:50   Link #2382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Yeah, it's important to make some distinctions between Mage Rank, and spell rank. They are independent of each other, as Teana (a rank B mage) was able to use a Rank AA skill(Variable Barret, that Vice was also able to use and he's lower). That's why you can't really rely on the measurement of a shot strength to determine a Mage Rank.

Think of it as Kilometers to measure distance and Kilograms to measure weight. Only in this case, they are using the term "rank" for both, which does help confuse.

Which means you're trying to quantify a mage, a rough guess is the best you can do. You can measure individual spell strength, but the overall measure of a mage is their rank, which must be tested to know for sure.

It's easiest to look at it, if you think back to the beginning. Two mages, Joe and Bob, are trying to determine who is strongest. They have a match set with rules, and Joe clearly comes out the victor. They decide to call Joe "A" rank and Bob "B" rank. Along comes Alice, who can also beat Bob, but loses to Joe. So now we have Joe as A, Alice as B, and Bob as C.

As time went on, they diversified ranks a bit more, but overall, it was a way to tell how strong a mage was overall, when compared to another mage. Mages kept getting stronger, so they went to AA, then AAA, then S and SS.

This is just how I look at it. It's sorta like an IQ test in a way; you're being compared to your peers.

And spell ranks are a whole 'nother ball of wax.
CANON STATES:
Spell Rank = Energy consumed (and eventually launch)
Mage Rank = Rank based out of trial test

MAGE RANK
We only have seen the B-rank trial test so far, so we don't know yet. But supposedly, the mage rank doesn't indicate how MASSIVE their mana is, but HOW EFFICIENT a mage use their mana and overall skill.

We have seen Caro, a super summoner (ten years old as of StrikerS start) that destined to bear the task to handle Silver Dragon (lil Fried, yeah). What rank she is? C+, yeah. All about skill, I guess.

Here's Subaru, a girl with high strength and defense, super speed, and rather high firepower, and still in B-rank? Because she still unable to use her advantage effectively.

Then we saw Erio. His spell aren't as devastate compared to either Teana or Subaru (same rank), but he handles anything purely by judgement and speed.

As with Teana, she doesn't have any special traits, just hard work to cope with everyone, but her overall skill surpass all the specialist, not to mention her sharp wit of course.

However, there also lies confusion with my statement above, as Lutecia, 'somewhat illegal' super-summoner are S-rank, and actually hasn't any self-defense abilities aside massive number of insect summon (Caro have decent offensive spells and defensive one), what factor determining "Enemy's rank" is rather vague.

Same goes for Hayate, nuke-throwing mage without a shield and close combat ability at all, are SS rank (and highest rank of all living mages presumably).
Maybe there's a possibility that raw mana output is, indeed, needed in the subsequent test.

And (Professor) Yuuno Scrya, somewhat forgotten boy armed with nothing, hasn't offensive spell whatsoever (creative usage of bindings is exception), and usually act as backup unit. AMAZED us with his borderline Memetic shield strength, which took SURPRISE Starlight Breaker or THREE spell or the same scale (and everything was only on side material, not on TV Series/DVD). For the time being, he's A rank (Yes, A rank with 1 or 2 points of firepower out of 10 points scale)

I agree with Kaijo that actually, mage rank is more vague than everything.

SPELL RANK
As with Spell rank, it's directly in context of Power x Complexity.

Starlight Breaker usually assumed as SS-rank, it requires massive amount of mana, which is drained from previous spell/ cartridge boosted even for Nanoha.

As with Variable Barret, it's Complexity gets in the way, Teana had to force herself for doing so on the first virtual battle.
To note that Vice's rank isn't lower than Teana, actually he's higher, at B+, but it was his Mana that actually lower than Teana (to be more ridiculous, half of her).
And he easily do it because of pure skill. Sniper, indeed.
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Old 2010-05-07, 02:56   Link #2383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
The Gallians in Nanohaverse need to convene with the rest of the multiverse to work out a proper SI unit system that would at least make a bit more sense rather than break down once we start analyzing it!
SI, hell yeah you're right

At episode 5 of StrikerS, the train stated to be moving at 70 unit, whatever is that means
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Old 2010-05-07, 02:57   Link #2384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED View Post
MAGE RANK
We only have seen the B-rank trial test so far, so we don't know yet. But supposedly, the mage rank doesn't indicate how MASSIVE their mana is, but HOW EFFICIENT a mage use their mana and overall skill.
Except Hayate throws a wrench in that train of thought. At SS-rank, she holds the most powerful rank of any of the cast. Yet she is the worst of them all in efficient use of mana.

Not to mention that there was little testing done to measure Nanoha and Fate's AAA-ranks.
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Old 2010-05-07, 03:10   Link #2385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Okay so the latest chapter of the Nanoha 1st movie manga has reviled how familiars are created.

step 1. Find a random animal

step 2. Feed you magical energy into said animal turning it into a familiar

step 3. Make a binding contract with familiar (contract time may very)

step 4. When the contract is complete familiar disappears

so any thoughts on this?
1. Ethically sense, animal that is DYING (like Precia would care about that anyway)

2. Producing a Linker core that synchronizing with the owner's Linker Core (why Arf turned into a little brat as of StrikerS is to counter this effect)

3. Of course, since Familiar are created for specific purpose (as with Linith, to make Fate strong enough)

4. ...... (poor Linith)

5. Profit! (ENFORCER FATE T. HARLOWN, DAMMIT!!!!!)
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Old 2010-05-07, 03:28   Link #2386
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Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
"Inherent Skill' might more be a refference to the 'Natural Design Ability' of the cyborg in question rather than what seems to be people thinking 'Inherrited Skill' as one passed down geneticly.

As an example: If I had Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. It would be said that my ability to rip your face off violently would be an 'inherent' trait to having said claws. An Inherent Skill.


So 'Inherent Skill' most likely reffers to an ability that is inherent in the function of a particular cyborg's body. Subaru was engineered to have the ability to use vibration as an attack. The ability is inherent to her physical structure itself. It is not provided by outside factors.

A regular human doesn't have an Inherent Skill, because they weren't spacificly designed like a peice of weapons engineering.
Ahem, IS are different kind of Magic than all the magic we know until now, and some even said it isn't magical at all, since Jail didn't said anything about it.

IS is specialized magic than occurs on a combat cyborg naturally, and differs ACCORDING TO THE FRAME (yeah, not genes).
Subaru and Ginga (and actually, Nouve too) had Wing Road thanks to Type Zero Frame (and Nouve IS created using Subaru as prototype model), and none said Quint actually used Wing road before.
Nouve's Airliner actually reverse-engineered version of Subaru's wing road based on her combat data.
So, Quint DOESN'T have Wing road, (for now, except there are proof or statements in future)
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Old 2010-05-07, 03:35   Link #2387
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Uhm, out of idle curiosity, but can I ask for the source of your information?
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Old 2010-05-07, 03:57   Link #2388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Except Hayate throws a wrench in that train of thought. At SS-rank, she holds the most powerful rank of any of the cast. Yet she is the worst of them all in efficient use of mana.

Not to mention that there was little testing done to measure Nanoha and Fate's AAA-ranks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED View Post
Same goes for Hayate, nuke-throwing mage without a shield and close combat ability at all, are SS rank (and highest rank of all living mages presumably).
Maybe there's a possibility that raw mana output is, indeed, needed in the subsequent test.

And (Professor) Yuuno Scrya, somewhat forgotten boy armed with nothing, hasn't offensive spell whatsoever (creative usage of bindings is exception), and usually act as backup unit. AMAZED us with his borderline Memetic shield strength, which took SURPRISE Starlight Breaker or THREE spell or the same scale (and everything was only on side material, not on TV Series/DVD). For the time being, he's A rank (Yes, A rank with 1 or 2 points of firepower out of 10 points scale)
My post is that TL;DR????
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Old 2010-05-07, 04:32   Link #2389
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Well, the part about Hayate only notes a lack of shielding and close combat, not her efficiency in mana usage. To that I'll add that Hayate has never been confirmed to lack shields, only close combat. And close combat is a non-factor in mage rank.

The tests are only one way to get ranks. Nanoha and Fate were slapped with AAA-ranks with only raw combat data and powerlevel scans.

I'm still wondering where you are getting all this info though. Especially the part about combat cyborgs.
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Old 2010-05-07, 10:05   Link #2390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The tests are only one way to get ranks. Nanoha and Fate were slapped with AAA-ranks with only raw combat data and powerlevel scans.
For that, I'm going with the "just an estimate" explanation. Lindy and Chrono should know what an AAA rank mage is capable of, so when they saw Nanoha and Fate, they estimated that the two were in that range.

It would be like you watching the Olympics and seeing the time that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place runners came in. Then you watch me run on a normal day, and go "Wow, you run like an Olympic Silver medalist."

I haven't won any medals, and I'd actually need to compete to see for sure, but based on your experience, you can judge how fast and how well I run and compare it to what you've seen.
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Old 2010-05-08, 02:14   Link #2391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Except Hayate throws a wrench in that train of thought. At SS-rank, she holds the most powerful rank of any of the cast. Yet she is the worst of them all in efficient use of mana.
I must say she have not combat, but composite SS - and she is enormously good with wide-area massive and difficult spells like weather control... btw IIRC Fate good at weather control too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The tests are only one way to get ranks. Nanoha and Fate were slapped with AAA-ranks with only raw combat data and powerlevel scans.
And Numbers slotted forwards in manga as "AA area of speciality, A overall" yet they still were officially B/C... Tests and estimate are different things.
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PS. Also Nanoha/job, Honor/job and Rein/Agito.
PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.
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Old 2010-05-08, 20:39   Link #2392
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All this mentioning of ranks and stuff suddenly just served as a catalyst for something when I was reading the analysis.

Besides the various types of magic: Circle (Mid-Childan), Triangle (Belkan), Summoning (Square)...I know I mentioned this in one of my posts somewhere in the Nanoha section in one of the threads...fanfiction if I'm not mistaken, a character of mine has a different but similar interpretation of the whole ranking method, just described differently since I created a magic type of my own. I thought back to one of the episodes of StrikerS and what stood out for me is when Signum mentions that Subaru and Teana (I think she also mentioned Teana) somehow utilized and combined the elements from Mid-Childan and Belkan and somehow made their own style. I decided to use that analysis to make my own magic type with that very same concept.

@Nanya01: When you mean Sound Stage...are you referring to Sound Stage X?
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Old 2010-05-08, 21:00   Link #2393
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Originally Posted by kaname08 View Post
All this mentioning of ranks and stuff suddenly just served as a catalyst for something when I was reading the analysis.


@Nanya01: When you mean Sound Stage...are you referring to Sound Stage X?
StrikerS Sound Stage 4 actually, Hayate goes about describing the new shiny ranks that was going to be assigned to the Forwards.
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Old 2010-05-08, 23:28   Link #2394
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I see. I might need to check those sound stages again.
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Old 2010-05-08, 23:41   Link #2395
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Originally Posted by kaname08 View Post
I see. I might need to check those sound stages again.
StrikerS SS04
Track 22:

Hayate: I guess we can’t call the newbies, newbies any more.
Alto: Yeah, if they keep that up, they can clear the A rank exams/tests without any problems.
Hayate: A rank? No, well other than Caro, I don’t think anyone will be reaching A rank.
Alto: Huh?
Shamal: The three of them will be skipping to the AA combat rank test, that’s what Nanoha and Vita are training them for.
Hayate: Caro will be a composite/artificial/synthesized A-ranker but she’ll have a plus tacked on because of her specialty/experience.
Alto: Oh, I see.
Hayate: But keep this a secret from them, okay?
Alto: Okay!
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Old 2010-05-09, 10:32   Link #2396
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To nitpick, it says that they will be skipping to the AA rank test, but not when that will happen (or if they passed). But it is a good indication of what level their abilities are at now.
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Old 2010-05-09, 10:35   Link #2397
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well, it's most likely that the tests happened before RF6 disbanded.
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Old 2010-05-09, 12:05   Link #2398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
well, it's most likely that the tests happened before RF6 disbanded.
It's a good conjecture, but as a few people once told me, you can't make assumptions; only go on what has been explicitly been said. ;p
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Old 2010-05-09, 15:22   Link #2399
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True, but with lack of such information, we go ahead with what sounds reasonable until such information becomes available.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2010-05-18 at 13:16.
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Old 2010-05-18, 05:30   Link #2400
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Not going to bother digging through the 121 pages here because we all know how much DRAMA took place in the past, so i might as well ask straight out anyway.

question is on devices. their weight, to be precise. for example, Cross Mirage has a Two-Hand mode, but when the second one is not in use, is its weight added to the original body, making it twice the weight of one gun, or is it stored in a pseudohammerspace(or whatever the equivalent is in nanoverse. that'll be another story, though i remember it being discussed here once) and thus the weight is negligible?
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