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Old 2013-02-06, 12:35   Link #2881
Nanya01
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Quote:
So yeah, the strongest Non-Eclipse melee fighter in the Nanohaverse seems to be a Mid-user
Right, the same person who can't beat Signum in a one-on-one melee fight.

You know, the same Signum who fought Nanoha to a stand-still...

The same Signum who trained Erio in melee combat.

riiiight...

Fate sure is the strongest melee fighter in the series.

/sarcasm
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:37   Link #2882
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Ok, Keroko, you change the analogy. First was about not using an oar in fencing, which is impossible, to I can use an oar in a fight which is really not a bad idea but another thing entirely. So I decide to ignore it because we a are moving the discussion over "A boat oar can be a good sword?" and that has nothing to do with out discussion. Who cares about boat oars and swords when were discussing magic? I use them as an analogy and you guys take the discussion like those were the subject.
Heh, I'm the bad guy who's changing analogies now? Pot calling the kettle black, mister goalpost mover.

Funny thing is, this is your analogy. Just worded differently. Remember, you are the one who started to claim that all martial arts are the same just because they all use the same limbs.

Yes, Sansker, I am well aware people can do both ranged and melee attacks with Mid and Belka. Had you been paying attention I never denied this. What I have been saying all along is that while you can do these things, Mid and Belka are just better at their respective specialties. And it shows in the fighter's styles. This means that the styles are not, as you continue to claim, "the same."

Belka has no wide-range bombardment spells that we know of, and Breaker magic is unique to Mid. Vice-versa, Mid users have to go through extreme lengths to match the melee performance of Belka users, as shown in Fate's Sonic Form and Corona's Nephilim Fist, unless they have some form of rare skill like Miura's Hard Hitter.

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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Also, a dimensional see should not affect dimensional transfer. I am moving beyond space and time. Distance is irrelevant on dimensional transfer.
Only if you perceive dimensions as identical locations separated by an invisible wall. Think less mirror dimensions, and more separate planes of existence, like Magic: The Gathering.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:39   Link #2883
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I've always thought of Dimensional Sea as a fancy way to call Warp Space to be honest. My personal definition of dimensions follow the Kaleidoscope line.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:41   Link #2884
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Right, the same person who can't beat Signum in a one-on-one melee fight.

You know, the same Signum who fought Nanoha to a stand-still...

The same Signum who trained Erio in melee combat.

riiiight...

Fate sure is the strongest melee fighter in the series.

/sarcasm
Neat and worthy feats you mentioned there but Fate isn't lacking on her book, besides, currently she's the one achieving the beest results against several opponents that could stomp over pretty much everyone else, Signum included.

To be fair, the setting of FORCE doesn't give Fate much options at long range combat so she had to showoff more of her close combat prowess ...the cool thing is that Fate is basically the only one who can keep using her Mid-styled skills in combat. The others are limited by equipement and rules, extra points to Fate by achieveing better results than everyone else while still fighting like a mage xD
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:45   Link #2885
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Neat and worthy feats you mentioned there but Fate isn't lacking on her book, besides, currently she's the one achieving the beest results against several opponents that could stomp over pretty much everyone else, Signum included.

To be fair, the setting of FORCE doesn't give Fate much options at long range combat so she had to showoff more of her close combat prowess ...the cool thing is that Fate is basically the only one who can keep using her Mid-styled skills in combat. The others are limited by equipement and rules, extra points to Fate by achieveing better results than everyone else while still fighting like a mage xD
Your reaching into the Force series has one flaw though: At the time of Fate's fight, she had already been equipped with a weapon capable of fighting the Hucks, whereas Signum lacked such a weapon.

This renders the "X beat Y so she must be stronger than Z who lost to Y" comparison moot.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:51   Link #2886
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Your reaching into the Force series has one flaw though: At the time of Fate's fight, she had already been equipped with a weapon capable of fighting the Hucks, whereas Signum lacked such a weapon.

This renders the "X beat Y so she mush be stronger than Z who lost to Y" comparison moot.
Signum barely defended herself against the same attacker when finally equiped with an AEC-unit (say what you want but if you witness the conditions of both fighters when Cypha fled ..well, i can say it's a relief Cypha has decided to escape) ...but well, Signum is also pretty Handicapped by now so i guess that also counts.

Still, seeing how Curren has been curbstompping people left and right (except Hardis, of course) gives some credit to Fate's achievement xD And she's the other half of the Magnificent Duo so she's almost guaranteed to have a climatic awesome fight at the end of the season xD

And by the way, Fate had troubles beating Signum at "Age 9" (and was still able to give her some troubles, mind you) xDU By the time FORCE takes place this is probably reversed (Signum even told the Grendels that Fate is a swordfighter to be feared) but i won't confirm that until i see those two cross blades again ...which probably won't happen anyway xDU
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:57   Link #2887
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^ It's one the few things that's been bugging me.
Really, a 9 year old girl going toe to toe against a hundred years old woman? Especially if said woman is a Knight? That's a bit hard to believe.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:58   Link #2888
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
^ It's one the few things that's been bugging me.
Really, a 9 year old girl going toe to toe against a hundred years old woman? Especially if said woman is a Knight? That's a bit hard to believe.
That's just how damn good Fate is at close combat ...despite being a Mid-user xD
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:03   Link #2889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
^ It's one the few things that's been bugging me.
Really, a 9 year old girl going toe to toe against a hundred years old woman? Especially if said woman is a Knight? That's a bit hard to believe.
Signum was holding back.

A lot.

Fate lost EVERY rematch that the two had over a ten year period, even going so far as to indicate that the fights weren't even close, no matter how hard she tried.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:05   Link #2890
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
That's just how damn good Fate is at close combat ...despite being a Mid-user xD
Ahahahaha. No. That's PIS or CIS at it's finest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Signum was holding back.

A lot.

Fate lost EVERY rematch that the two had over a ten year period, even going so far as to indicate that the fights weren't even close, no matter how hard she tried.

Ah, I see. Thanks.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:15   Link #2891
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Signum was holding back.

A lot.

Fate lost EVERY rematch that the two had over a ten year period, even going so far as to indicate that the fights weren't even close, no matter how hard she tried.
Uhhh... that's actually quite inaccurate. Indeed, it was stated Fate lost most matches against Signum during the timeskip ..but not ALL of them. She won from time to time and Signum considers her an opponent worthy of fighting repeatedly which suggest the fights were more and more challenging as time passes. Heck if we take "The Battle of Aces" dialogue a bit seriously Fate had already scored two Victories (out of 10 matches) by the time the game takes place, revealed during her fight with Dark piece Signum. Fate said she still has a lot to learn and dismisses those as luck strokes but DP Signum tell her to be more proud of her skills and that is right to show pride about those two victories because those were the fruit of her effort and detemrination in combat.

So yeah, awesome Fate is awesome xD
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:17   Link #2892
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^ Well then Signum isn't as strong as everyone claims her to be.

Because, again, a hundred years old woman losing to a 9 year old girl? Really hard to believe.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:19   Link #2893
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
^ Well then Signum isn't as strong as everyone claims her to be.

Because, again, a hundred years old woman losing to a 9 year old girl? Really hard to believe.
Indeed, that's the point, Signum looks cool, have and imposing presence and does pretty good in sparring duels. But in practice, at the fires of the real battlefield is Fate the one who comes out as the most talented fighter.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:24   Link #2894
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Wrong, Aki...

Aki, just shut up.

Signum: However, I told you to stop addressing me so formally.
Fate: Even if you tell me that, I was taught by my tutor to address my elders formally. Well, when the percentage of my sparring victories surpasses losses, I'll feel confident enough to speak to you as your equal. Eh heh.
Signum: Oh, if that's the case, I'm going to be waiting forever for the impossible.
Fate: It's not impossible. I'll be growing in height and magic after this as well.
Signum: Just growing taller doesn't mean you'll be getting stronger (bad translation).
Fate: Just watch me.
Signum: Well, I won't be standing around waiting for you. So try your best in matching/reaching/beating me.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:25   Link #2895
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Indeed, that's the point, Signum looks cool, have and imposing presence and does pretty good in sparring duels. But in practice, at the fires of the real battlefield is Fate the one who comes out as the most talented fighter.
Eh, no. That's just the author being stupid or Fate biased. Signum's still strong, just not as strong as everyone believes her to be.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:29   Link #2896
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BTW, wasn't the last StrikerS chapter supposed to be the two strongest of Riot Force 6 against each other?

Heck, in an earlier manga chapter, Vita comments that there's a lot of factors that goes into winning a fight, not just who's the strongest.

Otherwise it would have been Nanoha vs Hayate instead of Nanoha vs Signum.

I seem to recall Signum tanking Nanoha's moves in that chapter before countering perfectly.

You know, the same moves that took both Fate and Dieci out with ease and Signum tanks them.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:30   Link #2897
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Wrong, Aki...

Aki, just shut up.

Signum: However, I told you to stop addressing me so formally.
Fate: Even if you tell me that, I was taught by my tutor to address my elders formally. Well, when the percentage of my sparring victories surpasses losses, I'll feel confident enough to speak to you as your equal. Eh heh.
Signum: Oh, if that's the case, I'm going to be waiting forever for the impossible.
Fate: It's not impossible. I'll be growing in height and magic after this as well.
Signum: Just growing taller doesn't mean you'll be getting stronger (bad translation).
Fate: Just watch me.
Signum: Well, I won't be standing around waiting for you. So try your best in matching/reaching/beating me.
That was probably Signum just being cocky, don't forget she tends to be kind of a smug snake at times. What with "you have pretty good sense for a mage, but against a Belkan-type knight it will be useless" at the beginning of A's?

Signum have a bad habit to gloat her skills out of proportion, she did it with Fate, with Zest, with Nanoha and finally came to bite her hard in the ass during her fight with Cypha xDU

I know, i know, she's a knight so she probably uses that as an intimidation tactic but still. Everytime she refers to Fate's skills in a serious manner it's always praises and recognition about how good she is ...which culminates in FORCE where she says the Grendel Family they should fear Fate MORE than her xD

That dialogue was just probably Signum taunting Fate so she put more effort into her training.

EDIT: By the way, is that dialogue from a Sound Stage o.o? I never heard it before.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:33   Link #2898
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Aki...

*Twitch*

You don't...

Read the Sound Stages?!

...

You...

GRRAAAAHHH!!

*Screams in a rage that would make Abridged Vegeta take pause*
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:33   Link #2899
Lhklan
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@Aki
... Since when was Signum's cocky? I mean it, seriously. I just can't picture Signum as someone cocky.

Also, this line: you have pretty good sense for a mage, but against a Belkan-type knight it will be useless is actually pretty true. Seeing as Belkan Knights focuses on close range combat, they would outmatch Fate if it ever comes down to it.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:44   Link #2900
Akiyoshi
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@Aki
... Since when was Signum's cocky? I mean it, seriously. I just can't picture Signum as someone cocky.
Ok, maybe "cocky" was too strong of a word but she tends to be kind of pretentious with her comments at times. 90% percent of her battles are "you're not gonna pass" or "i'm a Belkan Knight and you're going down" or the like. So yeah, she does show some smugness at times, not as much nowdays but in A's it was pretty notorious (she still does it sometimes, tough. What with her first approach to Cypha? she outirght tells her "surrender now or i'll kill you" not a very polite thing for a "public officer" to say xDU).

And about the Sound Stages, i had read some, but not all, i more or less spoiled some of it's more vital contents but i don't know the specific dialogue.
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