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Old 2008-02-04, 13:14   Link #601
SpaceBrotha
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The entire scene with Hayate going ballistic is messed up in various ways...
...first it's the distance matter (both with the drones and hayates firing range)

...then there's the location of the base itself (north pole, eh?)

...and then there's Hayates position generally, as the shots she fires are shown to come behind the drones, and when they detect Dieci's charging her cannon, she's shown to look behind her, surprised, and just a bit later shown casting diabolic emission right on top of them. So either she swiched positions at some point, with rather impressive speed if the distance in the strat view was correct, or we have a plot hole the size of a truck right there...
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Old 2008-02-04, 15:11   Link #602
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I'm guessing a plot hole the size of a truck. OH 7ARCS.
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Old 2008-02-04, 15:14   Link #603
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Well, they've yet to match Sunrise. Their plotholes are the size of friggin containerships.
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Old 2008-02-04, 19:14   Link #604
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...w/longarch.jpg
I'm not just looking at the grid lines on the display, but the landmass features of the Strat-Map. They look like they're projected onto the map in a rather odd way for a mere radar image. They look like a sphere was projected onto the map. Observe the coastal features on the map... notice how they all seem to curve around the 'radar' focal point?
Actually, to me, you want them to curve, so they look curved to you, like a Roscharch Ink Blot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBrotha View Post
The entire scene with Hayate going ballistic is messed up in various ways...
...first it's the distance matter (both with the drones and hayates firing range)
It is longer than average; it is an area shot. From the Muzzle Velocity of the shots, it is pretty darn clear no matter how you cut it, they are no where near the IRBM ranges that will support the polar interpretation.

Quote:
...then there's the location of the base itself (north pole, eh?)
Here's an easier solution. It isn't.

Quote:
...and then there's Hayates position generally, as the shots she fires are shown to come behind the drones, and when they detect Dieci's charging her cannon, she's shown to look behind her, surprised, and just a bit later shown casting diabolic emission right on top of them. So either she swiched positions at some point, with rather impressive speed if the distance in the strat view was correct, or we have a plot hole the size of a truck right there...
The easiest method is that the scale of the so called Strat display isn't nearly as big as some try to make it out to be.

Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2008-02-04 at 20:17.
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Old 2008-02-04, 23:06   Link #605
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuth...ant_projection

Why can't the Ship's projection be this? It is a good way, at least according to wikipedia, to have a flat map, with the best projection for radio lines, which is what the ship is serving as, a massive com antenna for Hayate's Neo Granzon Black Hole Gu... I mean Hyrothga magic
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Old 2008-02-05, 01:49   Link #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
I'm guessing a plot hole the size of a truck. OH 7ARCS.
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, they've yet to match Sunrise. Their plotholes are the size of friggin containerships.
Reason why I decided to wing it with crack. :3
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Old 2008-02-05, 02:03   Link #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Actually, to me, you want them to curve, so they look curved to you, like a Roscharch Ink Blot.

.

Do I now?



So this land mass curvature I'm pointing out that just so happens to follow very closely to the map projection lines (Especially that channel curvature) is an imaginary event that is only happening because I WANT it to occure.

I must have a Haruhi gene. I better check any see if any of my friends are Aliens, Espers, Time Travelers, or rediculously mundane normal people caught in the middle.
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Old 2008-02-05, 02:21   Link #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryand-Smith View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuth...ant_projection

Why can't the Ship's projection be this? It is a good way, at least according to wikipedia, to have a flat map, with the best projection for radio lines, which is what the ship is serving as, a massive com antenna for Hayate's Neo Granzon Black Hole Gu... I mean Hyrothga magic
This actually does make sense, and would fit into the visual data. We have to remember, 7ARCs are NOT Project ACES. (God, if Project ACES was running it at least there'd be less bitching on these maps...)
...you know...

This COULD be JUST Cranagan City, y'know. The other alternative is that Hayate is lobbing nukes all over a continent, and that makes less sense to me.

Other alternative explanation? 7ARCs screwed up yet again. They have a map overlay, and the round things are supposed to represent the radar. Y'know, the ship radar, and the round radar display in the Tomcat's back seat?

This is the sort of stuff that you don't think too much about, people. Don't think about it too much. You can use bad art to support ANY proposition. Get a DVD rip and then compare.

Also, ATC, there are lots of things that happen that do not fit with our wishes. Kagerou and I had to revise a LOT of what we were working on with the OFM concepts. Accept with an open heart the criticisms of everyone here.
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Old 2008-02-05, 02:37   Link #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Also, ATC, there are lots of things that happen that do not fit with our wishes. Kagerou and I had to revise a LOT of what we were working on with the OFM concepts. Accept with an open heart the criticisms of everyone here.

I'm not in here for things to go my way or not, not THIS thread.

I'm here to debate technical things. I'll go accept the stuff I need to in the other thread. But here it's a rip roarin', six shootin', tossing man out windowin' showdown of technical discussion, points, counter points, and analysis. (Within reason of course. I don't need to actually toss anyone out any windows into the street. Western barfights make for poor debate company.)
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Old 2008-02-05, 06:49   Link #610
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Do I now?



So this land mass curvature I'm pointing out that just so happens to follow very closely to the map projection lines (Especially that channel curvature) is an imaginary event that is only happening because I WANT it to occure.

I must have a Haruhi gene. I better check any see if any of my friends are Aliens, Espers, Time Travelers, or rediculously mundane normal people caught in the middle.
I know I'm just jumping in hapzardedly, but I'd settle for radar overlay on a giant map. They could just be tracking targets as they emerge, such that Hayate intercepts them as close as to her max range, which might be indistinguishable on that scale.

Then again, the Gadgets gonna have to be moving at ultrasonic speeds to cover that distance to try and overwhelm Hayate. My counterpoint is that we have transdimensional ships and so we assume that what we call "high-speeds" is actually pretty slow to them having to deal with ultrarelativistic speeds on a daily basis.

Also, the tech might be advanced enough to avoid sonicbooms. Somehow.
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Old 2008-02-05, 08:45   Link #611
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Sub-point: Ultrasonic is a frequency level defining sound frequencies above those that a human ear can hear.


I believe you're after 'Hypersonic' (Mach 5 +) where atmospheric fluid dynamics become less 'aerodynamics' and more of the calculations of a body moving through a plasma.

Mach Number
Subsonic < MACH 0.8
Sonic MACH 1
Transsonic MACH 0.8 - 1.2
(Fully) Supersonic MACH 1.2
Hypersonic MACH 5 +

It's important to remember to think about what you're flying through at higher supersonic and hypersonic speeds... because at MACH five, you're essentially ionizing the air around you and flying in a high temperature plasma cone. The Space Shuttle comes out of orbit around MACH 25. (19,053 MPH).
And we all know what that does.
So airflow has to be accounted for, as well as thermal factors at extreme high velocities.

If you don't account for it, things can become... Unpleasant... Even for the magically inclined.

"P-P-P-P-PLASMA LANCER-lancer-ancer..."

I'm sure someone like Fate would LOVE to accidently Bar-B-Que herself in this method. [/Sarcasm]
Need some tough little magical barriers to keep the heat off.
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Old 2008-02-05, 08:53   Link #612
Keroko
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Concidering they have collored aura's whenever they fly at anything resembling high speed, its safe to assume they do indeed use barriers to negate, or at the very least dampen, some of the effects of high-speed flight.
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Old 2008-02-05, 09:04   Link #613
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Do I now?



So this land mass curvature I'm pointing out that just so happens to follow very closely to the map projection lines (Especially that channel curvature) is an imaginary event that is only happening because I WANT it to occure.

I must have a Haruhi gene. I better check any see if any of my friends are Aliens, Espers, Time Travelers, or rediculously mundane normal people caught in the middle.
Actually, had you not been trying to emasculate it with your red line, it is clear that the so called curving channel actually runs almost straight for part of its trip before turning in a very approximate for a curve. When combined w/ the fact that the rest of the map is not interested in even giving you a correlation, and the problems of that map being megametric scale, the solution is obvious.
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Old 2008-02-05, 10:09   Link #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Concidering they have collored aura's whenever they fly at anything resembling high speed, its safe to assume they do indeed use barriers to negate, or at the very least dampen, some of the effects of high-speed flight.
Actually, somehow I feel that Nanoha and gang can't be flying at any more than the average supersonic fighter plane's speed. There isn't any way you can be traveling at hypersonic speeds when you seem to clear so little of the city at a time, unless Cranagan's buildings are 10 times the width and height of the Big Apple's.

But then again, if they were so big, you would look even smaller, wouldn't you? But no, it all looks normal once you land.

Also, I am of the belief that Cranagan must be selectively soundproof, because anything less would result in a populace of Midchildans deafened by the maddening amount of aerial noise pollution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Actually, had you not been trying to emasculate it with your red line, it is clear that the so called curving channel actually runs almost straight for part of its trip before turning in a very approximate for a curve. When combined w/ the fact that the rest of the map is not interested in even giving you a correlation, and the problems of that map being megametric scale, the solution is obvious.
Does anyone have the Nanoha motivational poster parody for "Consistency"? It serves its purpose well here.
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Old 2008-02-05, 10:14   Link #615
Keroko
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Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Actually, somehow I feel that Nanoha and gang can't be flying at any more than the average supersonic fighter plane's speed. There isn't any way you can be traveling at hypersonic speeds when you seem to clear so little of the city at a time, unless Cranagan's buildings are 10 times the width and height of the Big Apple's.

And those must be really good brakes they have on their winged boots.
Oh, you misunderstand, I wasn't supporting the Nanoha cast flying at ludicrous speed, merely that they do use Barriers for high speed flight. How fast said high-speed flight actually is is still subject of debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Does anyone have the Nanoha motivational poster parody for "Consistency"? It serves its purpose well here.
I think Seven Arcs is expecting us to just carry the one and wing it (which, lets be honest, is what most companies and fans do), not dive into the square roots and try to make it 'real'.
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Old 2008-02-05, 10:19   Link #616
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Ah, then, I was mistaken. Thanks for the clarification. I must have been addressing too many posts with too little quotes again

About 7ARCS: No wonder everyone's just all over the place on that 960+ page long thread over there. But if we look at it in a different light, then it's good news for us...we have our freedom, so we should use it.
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Old 2008-02-05, 10:23   Link #617
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Old 2008-02-06, 10:50   Link #618
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Speaking of consistency, I'm not sure if this will be different on the DVDs, so I might as well ask from scratch:

What can be seen in Midchilda's skies beyond the atmosphere?

As in, on Earth in the daytime, we can see the sun, and maybe the Moon. At night, we see the Moon (depending on phase), and lots of bright dots of light that we tend to generalize as "stars". Other planets and perhaps the International Space Station might be visible as particularly bright stars, especially at night.

I know Midchilda has at least two moons orbiting it, what with the Cradle trying to... use the power of the moons, somehow. But if you look up at the sky, apart from the star-like dots of light, do you just see the two moons? What do they look like?

I ask this because I randomly read a sentence which claimed that a few planets are visible as such in Midchilda's sky. I'm not sure how this would work.

Also, I'm assuming that it's not going to be welcome to ask about why they use what seems like standard months when they have two moons.
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Old 2008-02-06, 11:20   Link #619
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I wouldn't call the moons in Mid Childa's sky planets. Based on the link you gave, I'd say that site's got no idea what its talking about asside from just commenting on visuals without actualy paying attention or understanding.

Also, months have nothing to do with Lunar cycles.
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Old 2008-02-06, 11:25   Link #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Speaking of consistency, I'm not sure if this will be different on the DVDs, so I might as well ask from scratch:

What can be seen in Midchilda's skies beyond the atmosphere?

As in, on Earth in the daytime, we can see the sun, and maybe the Moon. At night, we see the Moon (depending on phase), and lots of bright dots of light that we tend to generalize as "stars". Other planets and perhaps the International Space Station might be visible as particularly bright stars, especially at night.

I know Midchilda has at least two moons orbiting it, what with the Cradle trying to... use the power of the moons, somehow. But if you look up at the sky, apart from the star-like dots of light, do you just see the two moons? What do they look like?

I ask this because I randomly read a sentence which claimed that a few planets are visible as such in Midchilda's sky. I'm not sure how this would work.

Also, I'm assuming that it's not going to be welcome to ask about why they use what seems like standard months when they have two moons.
Those planets are the two moons. They seem to have an atmosphere of their own, concidering we can see clouds even from Mid-Childa. It almost looks like you would be staring at a planet, hence the confusion.

As for the months, the answer is simple. To avoid needless confusion. Seven Arcs already have Mid-Childa their own calender in terms of years, which is already throwing people of the loop here and there, giving Mid-Childa its own month system would really confuse people. It's easier to stick with the usual, as it gives people a bit more familiarity.
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