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Old 2008-02-07, 03:05   Link #621
dkellis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Also, months have nothing to do with Lunar cycles.
Wikipedia:

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The month is a unit of time, used with calendars, which is approximately as long as some natural period related to the motion of the Moon. The traditional concept arose with the cycle of moon phases; such months (lunations) are synodic months and last approximately 29.53 days. From excavated tally sticks, researchers have deduced that people counted days in relation to the Moon's phases as early as the Paleolithic age. Synodic months are still the basis of many calendars today.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Those planets are the two moons. They seem to have an atmosphere of their own, concidering we can see clouds even from Mid-Childa. It almost looks like you would be staring at a planet, hence the confusion.
I'm curious about what sort of atmosphere the moons have, since that would imply enough mass for gasses to be captured rather than escaping into space. And with that much mass comes great problems regarding gravity wells.

Or, and I can work with this for my story, the moons are distinctly magical anyway, so they make no sense.

Midchilda has, as was established earlier, buildings looking like ours, cars looking like ours, and books looking like ours. It also has gravity manipulation, a unique energy source based on personal power, and two moons, both of which apparently have cloud-like features.

This is why I had to ask if Midchilda developed books the same way we did, instead of just assuming.
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Old 2008-02-07, 03:25   Link #622
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The moons could simply be dense enough to have roughly equivalent surface gravity, and that would get them heavy enough to keep an atmosphere. Pack 'em solid with lots of whateverium.
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Old 2008-02-07, 05:20   Link #623
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Replying to above:

Then you have to consider the gravitational pull of 2 dense objects able to trap gases on a Earth-like planet like Midchilda. I'm not too sure of the facts, but I think if you can see such planets dead in the sky like in the anime, not only are they too close for comfort of life, I believe their combined gravitational pull can yank a permanent tidal wave as they go through their orbits.

And I think there were more than 2 "planets" in the sky, and so I'm guessing that we're like looking through several waygates that lead to other like worlds. As such, many planets in the sky, no destructive gravity pull.
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Old 2008-02-07, 05:33   Link #624
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Screen? I can only remember two.

That aside, this is simply one of those cases where we are looking at things too logicaly. Yes, realistically speaking those moons are far too close, and it makes no sense for them to have an atmosphere, yet they do. Why? Because it looks cool. Like episode 26's floating islands with seemingly eternal yet unknown watersources, this is simply one of those cases where we are supposed to go "Wow, that looks awesome!" and move on.
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Old 2008-02-07, 08:05   Link #625
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Don't be so sure. The parameters of a valid planet are quite flexible.

As a simple example, I can have an Earth sized "moon", with a surface gravity of 0.2Gs and a escape velocity of 5km/s. The planet will have to be mostly water or an equivalent in density, but it can hold an atmosphere, and it'll be big.
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Old 2008-02-07, 10:29   Link #626
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Hmmm...or else, we could have a giant "greenhouse planet" like in the science fiction novels. Since Midchilda has technology eons ahead of lowly Earthlings like us, I wouldn't see it as being too long a shot for them.

About the similarities between Midchilda and us, I suppose rules of structural integrity, aerodynamics and thermodynamics still hold water on Midchilda, right?

Although I know that magic can carry before all, I think the TSAB would think the worse of such a wasteful use of magical resources when the natural laws of physics can be relied on instead.
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Old 2008-02-07, 11:18   Link #627
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There are too much parameters for a planet suitable for life. Number of suns, its/their size(s), distance between the planet and the star, etc...
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Old 2008-02-07, 11:28   Link #628
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Rewatching a few episodes of StrikerS does reveal that the number of planets that apear in the sky does tend to fluxuate. Sometimes there are two, sometimes more. I'm atrubiting this to lazy artwork concistency rather then anything factually based (heck, in episode 11 lazy artwork makes some of the clouds disapear behind a planet, which would mean that the damn thing is inside the atmosphere).

Another note is that they didn't fix it with the DVD releases either. I would post DVD screens, but I'm having trouble taking screenshots of MKV's.
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Old 2008-02-07, 12:45   Link #629
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... Is that cloud on the right heart-shaped or are me and my friend just crazy?
And I think again the problem is everyone is looking at this (Ok aside from Keroko) logically. Stop applying logic to anime.

If Mid-Childa has two moons within its atmosphere. It has two moons in its atmosphere. Just say its magic.
"Screw the rules, I have magic!" works pretty well here.
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Old 2008-02-07, 13:08   Link #630
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Magic?

This, is SPARTA!

Er... wait no.

Where's my ultimate quote book?

Anywho...

The first couple laws of Thermodynamics seem to have absolute authority even with magic in this universe. And the first law, in very basis terms, essentially says 'you can't get something from nothing.' Magic or no. I would vote to establish that magic has limitations based on fundamental scientific principles, but contains technical properties that are foreign to conventional scientific models.

Otherwise we'd be straight up pulling Timmy Turners on a daily basis.
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Old 2008-02-07, 16:40   Link #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
... Is that cloud on the right heart-shaped or are me and my friend just crazy?
And I think again the problem is everyone is looking at this (Ok aside from Keroko) logically. Stop applying logic to anime.

If Mid-Childa has two moons within its atmosphere. It has two moons in its atmosphere. Just say its magic.
"Screw the rules, I have magic!" works pretty well here.
Or you can admit that 7Arcs did not do its homework regarding some subjects like basic astronomy.
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Old 2008-02-07, 17:51   Link #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Or you can admit that 7Arcs did not do its homework regarding some subjects like basic astronomy Common Sense.
Fixed it for you.
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Old 2008-02-07, 18:00   Link #633
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Lazy artwork =/= lack of common sense.
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Old 2008-02-07, 18:23   Link #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Lazy artwork =/= lack of common sense.
Laziness is no excuse for what should be a fixed background object, and a moving ambient background object interacting incorrectly.

In this case, a planet/moon should be fixed to the master background shot, and the clouds should be in an individual layer. At no point should laziness make it possible to screw that up.
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Old 2008-02-07, 18:36   Link #635
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How about noises in space in every goddamned science-fictions works with, maybe, the exception of Akira? How about non-instanteous laser beams that curves around in some mecha anime for no reason? Do we ask the directors and producers to fix them in DVD releaes?
The weekly amount of work in japanese animation is borderlining on slavery, let's not mention that 7arcs is a small studio that doesn't have the manpower of madhouse or sunrise. So, seeing them goofing up is not that surprising. Maybe the animation supervisor was sleeping, lazy. But please do not bring common sense in it.

Making Caro to cater to loli loving crowd, THAT is common sense, in a marketing point of view. Designing Vivio so Nanoha won't have to marry, and crush otaku's dreams is another kind of marketing-fueled common sense.
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Old 2008-02-07, 18:44   Link #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
How about noises in space in every goddamned science-fictions works with, maybe, the exception of Akira? How about non-instanteous laser beams that curves around in some mecha anime for no reason? Do we ask the directors and producers to fix them in DVD releaes?
The weekly amount of work in japanese animation is borderlining on slavery, let's not mention that 7arcs is a small studio that doesn't have the manpower of madhouse or sunrise. So, seeing them goofing up is not that surprising. Maybe the animation supervisor was sleeping, lazy. But please do not bring common sense in it.

Making Caro to cater to loli loving crowd, THAT is common sense, in a marketing point of view. Designing Vivio so Nanoha won't have to marry, and crush otaku's dreams is another kind of marketing-fueled common sense.
Laziness is miscoloring an eye in a sequence and not caring enough to fix it.
Putting a planet that should be a fixed object in the background, in the wrong layer is just a total failure of common sense.

And Marketing Common Sense?

You're going off on a tangent O_o What are you sm-...

Oh wait, this forum indulges in Crack.

Carry on.
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Old 2008-02-07, 18:58   Link #637
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Putting a planet that should be a fixed object in the background, in the wrong layer is just a total failure of common sense.
No, just no.

I can call it goofing up. But not lack of common sense. When someone work in a field like japanese animation, messing up HAS to happen. That's why there are a supervisor to check consistency or mistakes. 7arcs' fucked it up. Even Kyoto Animation (in before the usual suspects hounding on it) has made mistakes as shown in Haruhi Suzumiya (example) TV x DVD comparisons.
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Old 2008-02-07, 19:22   Link #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
No, just no.

I can call it goofing up. .
Then you FAIL!

Goofing up is forgetting the shadow for Eva and Chachamaru here like I did:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...aAlbaAdeat.jpg


Mislayering a moon? Twice? Probably more? I figured out how that should have NEVER happened in two seconds.

I know those guys work their rears off, producing a 23 minute episode once a week is brutal, and I actually did calcs on rate of manga work vs a rate of episode work for an Anime and came up with a month and a half for manga production to cover the same story time animation teams have to cover in an episode, so I'm no fool.

And why are you taking it so seriously anyway?

Why are we so off topic?

Spoiler for Size:
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Old 2008-02-07, 19:24   Link #639
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Laziness is no excuse for what should be a fixed background object, and a moving ambient background object interacting incorrectly.

In this case, a planet/moon should be fixed to the master background shot, and the clouds should be in an individual layer. At no point should laziness make it possible to screw that up.
Actually, both the planet/moon and the clouds are part of the same background set. There is no actual animated moving in either of them. Speaking as an experienced shopper, in detailed pictures it is very easy to slip and forget to put a layer in its correct place. Common sense has nothing to do with this.

If you want to avoid extra work, its common practice to leave the planets and clouds as seperate layers (why in the blazes would you want to fix them to the master background in the first place?), that way you can easilly get various backgrounds by merely shuffling the layers a bit. It saves time, money, and effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
And why are you taking it so seriously anyway?

Why are we so off topic?

Spoiler for Size:
So when various pointless scientific calculations complaining about the Laws of Physics come into play, its on-topic, but as soon as the mention of 'animation error, can be ignored' comes into play, its suddenly off-topic?
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Old 2008-02-07, 19:28   Link #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Actually, both the planet/moon and the clouds are part of the same background set. There is no actual animated moving in either of them. Speaking as an experienced shopper, in detailed pictures it is very easy to slip and forget to put a layer in its correct place. Common sense has nothing to do with this.

If you want to avoid extra work, its common practice to leave the planets and clouds as seperate layers (why in the blazes would you want to fix them to the master background in the first place?), that way you can easilly get various backgrounds by merely shuffling the layers a bit. It saves time, money, and effort.
As an experienced shopper myself, I know what you're talking about too, and both agree and dissagree. I would have developed the planet and a shade background for it. (Since this version of the planet is viewed through an atmosphere filter. Then broken that off into a modular component I could reuse quickly without having to reshuffle layers for different backgrounds.


Quote:
So when various pointless scientific calculations come into play, its on-topic, but as soon as the mention of 'animation error, can be ignored' comes into play, its suddenly off-topic?
We've been veering further and further from the topic the last page. I'm just as guilty as you are, so don't freak out about it.
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