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Old 2008-03-19, 03:18   Link #1041
Kagerou
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well good luck then .
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Old 2008-03-19, 06:49   Link #1042
Kha
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@Ark: He could be wrong, and I'll be h4xxed to death.

But if that is the case, that means Redemption can bring a person back to life, as long as his Linker Core hasn't dispersed, at least in my fanon scripture, that's where the soul resides. And it's not that h4xx either.

OMG Ark of all people, I never expected to make Khrack out of you!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshouryuu View Post
I thought Resurrection = bring back to life which isn't allowed while Necromancy = corpse animation is possible?
Bunched it together by accident, and therefore looking like I was shooting myself in the foot since I'm getting ready to port Death Knights into the Nanohaverse.

But you can tell that I was aiming at Redemption/Resurrection I hope.
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Old 2008-03-19, 07:17   Link #1043
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@Ark: He could be wrong, and I'll be h4xxed to death.

But if that is the case, that means Redemption can bring a person back to life, as long as his Linker Core hasn't dispersed, at least in my fanon scripture, that's where the soul resides. And it's not that h4xx either.
I will say that IMO, it is a canonically defensible interpretation to take. I cannot say that the OC thread won't deny it on "literary grounds". If technical possibility is the only requirement, ATC's request for a 2000m/s rifle would have been granted.

I suppose they might let you get away with it, but only if you self-censor. If you have them salvage a core that's dead for days ... I can see a quick shafting coming onto your OCs. Stick to hours after brain death, extending to maybe a single day if the mage is uber-strong, and write a great story, and they might just let it pass. And please don't write "Resurrection Ability: SS" - that will just get all of them onto your characters like flies.
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Old 2008-03-19, 08:13   Link #1044
Kha
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
I will say that IMO, it is a canonically defensible interpretation to take. I cannot say that the OC thread won't deny it on "literary grounds". If technical possibility is the only requirement, ATC's request for a 2000m/s rifle would have been granted.

I suppose they might let you get away with it, but only if you self-censor. If you have them salvage a core that's dead for days ... I can see a quick shafting coming onto your OCs. Stick to hours after brain death, extending to maybe a single day if the mage is uber-strong, and write a great story, and they might just let it pass. And please don't write "Resurrection Ability: SS" - that will just get all of them onto your characters like flies.
In the medical world, we work by the Golden Hour: If the person flatlines, we typically have 30 mins maximum to resuscitate the person before permanent brain damage begins, and another 30 mins eliminates all hope of revival. That was the time limit I wanted to work with.

However, you made me think that Redemption might be able to bring a person back a few hours beyond the Golden Hour, and even with brain death, the healing administered by a well-trained priest specialized in trauma and intensive care, vital signs are all they need to nurse said person back to health.

I think this is the reason would explain if resurrection was available to Alicia, why it was unable to be used on her, as she was dead for too long that even magic can't save her.

And yes having grown up there, I know how to survive in my own backyard.

*remembers how everyone jumped on Thomas Kluize's rank X, when he's perfectly defeatable by an S rank*


That's why I never bother to quantify my OCs completely, I just limit them using logic and common sense.

Thanks for the tip anyway. :3


EDIT: I just realized this just fundamentally changed Midchilda's definition of clinical death! And instead of Golden Hour, they have Golden Hours! As fitting of a magically advanced society, it is only right that their people have much higher survivability in trauma than people of the backward 97th!
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Old 2008-03-19, 14:48   Link #1045
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Wait wait wait, Ark, you are constantly complaining about realism and yet you suddenly handwave Zest's resurection with unbased theories and 'it's magic' handwavium that violate medical laws?

Where on earth is the logic in that?

I mean, if you can handwave Golden Hour (thanks for the term Kha, didn't know what that was called exactly) why can't we handwave impact survivabillity? Or -far more realistically- animation choices versus statements?
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Old 2008-03-20, 02:53   Link #1046
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Wait wait wait, Ark, you are constantly complaining about realism and yet you suddenly handwave Zest's resurection with unbased theories and 'it's magic' handwavium that violate medical laws?

Where on earth is the logic in that?

I mean, if you can handwave Golden Hour (thanks for the term Kha, didn't know what that was called exactly) why can't we handwave impact survivabillity? Or -far more realistically- animation choices versus statements?
Your inability to comprehend SoD is not my problem. Remember the basic rule - assume that it really happened.

Since Zest supposedly came back from the death, whatever theory we make up has to accomodate that. Sure, we could pull a Kikaifan and say he wasn't being literal (effectively rejecting the fix), but Maximum Data Retention.

So, assume he really DID come back from the dead, we have a problem. His body's dead and from biology we know his neurons are going fast without oxygen. It'll actually have been a greater violation of physics if he was somehow brought back from the dead at that point without the linker core because as the novel logically points out - part of the information is lost upon death, and that's why revival is impossible. The only chance he may have is if his data is still available somewhere - and since his body is dead and his neurons are going, the only place the data might still be available is his linker core, which we already know (thanks to A's) holds information. Cloning and memory transfer is also well established (it basically is the whole premise of Fate). So at least we didn't have to invent a new element, much less Explosive Reactive Barrier Jackets.
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Old 2008-03-20, 04:22   Link #1047
Keroko
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I never supported the 'explosive reactive Barrier Jackets' though.

However, turn that around towards the Barrier Jacket discussion. We know that Barrier Jackets generate barriers. We know that the cast can survive getting thrown through buildings. Simplest possible logic says the Barrier Jackets protect them. Best thing is, it doesn't rely on 'maybes' that happen 'in dust clouds' in 'thousands of seconds'
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Old 2008-03-20, 05:42   Link #1048
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I never supported the 'explosive reactive Barrier Jackets' though.

However, turn that around towards the Barrier Jacket discussion. We know that Barrier Jackets generate barriers. We know that the cast can survive getting thrown through buildings. Simplest possible logic says the Barrier Jackets protect them. Best thing is, it doesn't rely on 'maybes' that happen 'in dust clouds' in 'thousands of seconds'
EXCEPT, as has been explained to you, the barrier jacket's physical properties (soft and thin) make it impossible, thus the "simplest possible logic" clearly doesn't work. Your simple solution relies on "can't"s instead of "maybes"

Why do you think ATC tried his silly Explosive Reactive Barrier Jacket? Because he knows that there is no way that BJ could have plausibly saved Fate. He just hasn't thought it through enough, so his solution simply causes new problems without really solving the old ones.

Frankly, I don't understand what this resistance to actively and cleverly using barriers and mundane physical laws is. It is simple. It doesn't require new physical handwavium. Heck, ATC's theory already conceded that his Special Protects only work if the guy's conscious, how far is that from a Active Defense!

Its only really bad part is that activation was unseen, but since that will be true of any system that saved Fate (presumably all shrouded in smoke), this is hardly a specific disadvantage.
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Old 2008-03-20, 16:58   Link #1049
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Maybe we're looking at it wrong. What if the jacket itself is a permanent barrier? Because Fate was hit through five stories (give or take) of what appears to be steel-reinforced concrete at an extremely high speed without even getting a scratch.

Which given that means no weapon in Earth (Aside from something overkill) is going to be able to so much as scratch the barrier jacket. And speedwise... Mages are fast enough that no one on Earth should be able to hit them (At least high-ranking ones like Nanoha)
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Old 2008-03-20, 17:50   Link #1050
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Wasn't it considered that the jackets aren't the true protection barrier of the mage, but rather they generate a protective field of sorts to prevent significant harm from, say, being hurled through a wall? (Wikipedia lists the red gems in Nanoha's BJ as Field Generators) Of course there are the incidents where mages have received damage to their physical being and barrier jackets, but the majority of the cases occurred by some magic-enhanced attack designed to pierce said barrier (Fate's Scythe Slash in S1 cut part of Nanoha's BJ), attack of significant magical power, when the mage was weakened from prolonged combat/magic use, or by a surprise attack. It also hasn't been confirmed if the field generated is attuned for physical encounters or both magical and physical. The field generation system of the barrier jacket might also not be always active, but reactive. If a mage is tossed toward something physical, they know they're gonna hit it, so it activates (like when Fate fought Signum in the desert in A's or any time they got flung through a building). Rather if they get attacked by surprise, the field is inactive. This might be to reduce the strain on the mage's Linker Core from keeping the field active constantly.
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Old 2008-03-20, 18:11   Link #1051
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I only have one thing to say:

MAGICAL GIRL

Heavy emphasis on MAGICAL
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Old 2008-03-20, 18:23   Link #1052
krisslanza
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Friend wrote this, I'm posting it

Went to someone as equally geeky as me to support my argument. Barrier Jackets – as their name implies – create a protective barrier around the mage. The manga states this right out. The actual composition of the clothing is doesn’t matter because the protection is generated magically.

Spoiler for proof:


And yeah, I agree with Xgouki, even if your barrier jacket’s on you wouldn’t have the barrier up all the time because it would drain your mana. Better to keep it off until you get into a fight.
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Old 2008-03-20, 20:52   Link #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Spoiler for Space:
I find it amazing that you can give such credit to that soft, thin thing (I'm not just talking about the visible portions, but the whole complex) despite them being penetrated by bug airblast, whips, hands ... etc.

As for speed, their usual combat speeds are slow. Even their best (probably in a Flash Move equivalent) is only around 70-100m/s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Spoiler for Space:
I find it amazing how people are willing to twist and turn rather than admit an active defense that actually has distance and toughness in the equation. You are willing to say that Fate had to manually activate the barrier jacket's optional defense to save herself from being slammed into the building, but not that she activated a barrier magic that can be extended from the body?

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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Spoiler for Space:
Yes, but the very nature of the complex (and not only the cloth) is such that it is unlikely to be awfully protective, and the show bears it out - they keep getting cut, stabbed ... etc. As for manual activation, see above.
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Old 2008-03-20, 21:13   Link #1054
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Okay, so lemme ask something, arc. All the times teh BJs have been penetrated have been cuts, stabs, cutting thimajigs.

So why not this compromies? BJs protect against impact/blunt force trauma, but lack protection against cutting damage.

To take your analogy of kevlar a few pages back as a jumping off point, here's my take.

The BJ protects against impact damage via magic. It could be field, it could be a barrier. Whatever, it protects against impact and blunt force trauma, much like how a Kevlar "soft vest" protects against impact and bullets.

However, because of the "composition" of the defenses, being tuned to protecting against blunt force trauma, this means that BJs are vulnerable to cutting damage from knives, swords, magical bug wings, bigass knife hook things, etc.

Before y'all start yelling at me on this, body armor - at least those sold to civillian law enforcement - consists of 2 types: "bulletproof" vests and stab vests. Due to differences in internal construction, bulletproof vests can be penetrated by knives (I've seen pics of a Gerber Mk II being punched through a Level II vest and into the ballistic gel dummy wearing the vest), but protect against bullets. Stab vests meanwhile protect against knife stabs and cuts but do not protect against gunshots. (Military Class IV vests, used by the US Army and Marines, protect against both threats to a fair degree: while a knife may penetrate the soft outerlayer of the vest, it'll have a difficult time penetrating the hard protective plate.)

...OC-wise, this makes the OFM Assault Platoon look even smarter than before What with using magically strengthend body armor on their jackets.

On Zest, I was always on the impression that he was revived within the Golden Hour after he flatlined.

Also, Ark, regarding the long posts you made on OCS and PME, I have only this to say: Thank you for doing my work for me and proving my point.

All I wanted was for you to admit that the Aces went to OCS and that PME exists. The disputable effectiveness of their PME is something I wholeheartedly agree with. As well as the fact that they suck. And that Fate probably didn't have the right mindset for an XO to begin with.

Also, Assistant Commander and Executive Officer are typically interchangeable terms, though in Western contexts, Assistant Commander is typically used for high-level commands, while Executive Officer is the more common term.
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Old 2008-03-20, 22:08   Link #1055
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Okay, so lemme ask something, arc. All the times teh BJs have been penetrated have been cuts, stabs, cutting thimajigs.

So why not this compromies? BJs protect against impact/blunt force trauma, but lack protection against cutting damage.

To take your analogy of kevlar a few pages back as a jumping off point, here's my take.

The BJ protects against impact damage via magic. It could be field, it could be a barrier. Whatever, it protects against impact and blunt force trauma, much like how a Kevlar "soft vest" protects against impact and bullets.

However, because of the "composition" of the defenses, being tuned to protecting against blunt force trauma, this means that BJs are vulnerable to cutting damage from knives, swords, magical bug wings, bigass knife hook things, etc.

Before y'all start yelling at me on this, body armor - at least those sold to civillian law enforcement - consists of 2 types: "bulletproof" vests and stab vests. Due to differences in internal construction, bulletproof vests can be penetrated by knives (I've seen pics of a Gerber Mk II being punched through a Level II vest and into the ballistic gel dummy wearing the vest), but protect against bullets. Stab vests meanwhile protect against knife stabs and cuts but do not protect against gunshots. (Military Class IV vests, used by the US Army and Marines, protect against both threats to a fair degree: while a knife may penetrate the soft outerlayer of the vest, it'll have a difficult time penetrating the hard protective plate.)
First, that was an airblast, not a wing. Sorry that is the case.

Second, you'll notice that Kevlar is softer than say steel or the harder materials that make up a stab vest, but compared to a BJ, it is quite hard and tough. It is also THICK. You won't be seeing many things made of a healthy thickness of Kevlar fluff around like BJs do.

When you are as soft and thin as a BJ, you won't be doing much to decelerate any kind of impact - kind of like a T-shirt.

Quote:
Spoiler for Space:


Also, Assistant Commander and Executive Officer are typically interchangeable terms, though in Western contexts, Assistant Commander is typically used for high-level commands, while Executive Officer is the more common term.
For the last part. I was just pointing out, in a moment of fairness, how the usual (based on Triad) translation of the term jitsumukan kept us from seeing the equivalence until we saw the card.
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Old 2008-03-20, 22:45   Link #1056
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
First, that was an airblast, not a wing. Sorry that is the case.

Second, you'll notice that Kevlar is softer than say steel or the harder materials that make up a stab vest, but compared to a BJ, it is quite hard and tough. It is also THICK. You won't be seeing many things made of a healthy thickness of Kevlar fluff around like BJs do.

When you are as soft and thin as a BJ, you won't be doing much to decelerate any kind of impact - kind of like a T-shirt.
*sighs* I'm not talking about the goddamned physical materials. I'm talking about the magics. Y'know, teh barrier and field? This is essentially a modest attempt to work on a bit more on TK's idea of inertial dampening. The BJ, tuned to magically dampen impacts via Barrier and Field, does fine against blunt force trauma, but since it's not tuned for protecting against cutting/piercing, fares worse against those kind of attacks.

Regarding the thickness, it could be that it's a tactical decision. Note that Midchildan aerial combat is very movement-heavy; having lots of mass would seriously be a disadvantage. It's quite possible that the idea is to use dedicated Shields and Barriers to tank magical and other attacks, leaving the BJ to protect from sudden blunt force trauma as last ditch defense.

What surprises me, Ark, is that I'm merely making a modest effort to explore TK's theory which you have agreed with and you're saying it does not work. Make up your mind.

Quote:
For the last part. I was just pointing out, in a moment of fairness, how the usual (based on Triad) translation of the term jitsumukan kept us from seeing the equivalence until we saw the card.
Well, Triad have never struck me as people really interested in military details *shrug* Or otakus, for that matter; there's been a fuckload of translations of fukuchou as "Vice Captain" even when the right term is XO...
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Old 2008-03-21, 01:37   Link #1057
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
*sighs* I'm not talking about the goddamned physical materials. I'm talking about the magics. Y'know, teh barrier and field?
I don't know how many times I have to restate this. When I say BJ, I count the whole complex (note how many times the phrase "defensive complex" or the word "complex" appear in my discussion). It includes the visible and invisible portion (which in turn includes the invisible portion's effect on the visible portion). Why? Because we only really get to see the work of the whole complex, so I count scores for the whole complex.

The complex is additive, so one of the three components can "win" the requisite "points", or two of them added together or even all three. So when I say a BJ is soft, I mean that Cloth + Barrier + Field together cannot make it hard, so the wind flips it about. When I say it doesn't defend against whips and windblast, it means that the combination together can't do it. When I say it is thin, I mean the aggregate thickness, too.

Quote:
This is essentially a modest attempt to work on a bit more on TK's idea of inertial dampening. The BJ, tuned to magically dampen impacts via Barrier and Field, does fine against blunt force trauma, but since it's not tuned for protecting against cutting/piercing, fares worse against those kind of attacks.
Nobody ever really explains how they plan to "magically" damp the impacts, even in conceptual form.

Quote:
Regarding the thickness, it could be that it's a tactical decision. Note that Midchildan aerial combat is very movement-heavy; having lots of mass would seriously be a disadvantage. It's quite possible that the idea is to use dedicated Shields and Barriers to tank magical and other attacks, leaving the BJ to protect from sudden blunt force trauma as last ditch defense.
Then why don't we just simplify it to say that the BJ simply isn't very protective against anything physical? This discussion is getting to the point where people are willing to say that the anti-physical defenses have to be manually activated for them to work in the name of saving power. It seems like they would accept almost anything other than the employment of an active defense.

Quote:
What surprises me, Ark, is that I'm merely making a modest effort to explore TK's theory which you have agreed with and you're saying it does not work. Make up your mind.
First, regarding Inertial Dampening. I said I would not completely dismiss it. That's not the same as saying that I agree with it, as I almost always make very clear by the sentence right after. There's a gap b/w "I will not completely dismiss it" and "I agree". For example, if you look back, I favor a mana-assembled BJ, while Tk3997 favors one made of fermions grabbed from a subspace bag. There isn't really enough evidence either way to decisively say one is impossible, so "I cannot completely dismiss" his theory, but I don't agree with him either. Get it?

For one thing, as Tshoryuu pointed out, it is basically a magicobabble device. So any theory involving one automatically has ten handwavium points. It is a magicobabble device that requires more precision than say, antigrav - forces on each atom have to be equalized.

For another thing, the forces a ship inertial compensator (the usual sci-fi scenario of inertial dampening) has to apply in normal accelerations are relative simple. Thrust pushes at back, things start flying backwards (reaction) so apply force towards the forward direction to compensate.

But now, let's say you hit rock. What kind of forces do you apply? Note that your molecules, starting from the ones that hit rock first, are being compressed and effectively being shoved backwards (reaction from the floor), the direction they would go under an acceleration, so the inertial compensation will compensate by firing forward (in the direction of travel, which is harder into the dirt!) The dirt resists more, the compensator fires harder ... etc.

Meanwhile, a little aft, things that are not yet compressed may be thrown foward (as in normal deceleration). The compensator in those sections fires backward. So, your inertial compensator will unpredictably thrust some parts of your body forward and others aft, all at thousands of Gs (because the BJ is very thin, all delta-Vs have to be handled in extremely small distance and time frames, thus forcing the use of immense forces and accelerations). Does that sound like a great combination?

Quote:
Well, Triad have never struck me as people really interested in military details *shrug* Or otakus, for that matter; there's been a fuckload of translations of fukuchou as "Vice Captain" even when the right term is XO...
Well, I have to side with them on this one. If you take the Japanese literally, "Vice / Assistant Captain" or even more accurately "Vice Chief (in the leader sense, not an NCO) / Commander (not an O-5)" is more accurate. Overly pressing your own culture's peculiarities onto others can sometimes lead to disastrous errors. Which is why I actually liked what 7Arcs did with the cards. They made it clear that Midchildran is not exactly English (this is almost certainly deliberate rather than Not Doing Research, because even an auto-translator won't come up with such results), as is their rank system.
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Old 2008-03-22, 01:07   Link #1058
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
I don't know how many times I have to restate this. When I say BJ, I count the whole complex (note how many times the phrase "defensive complex" or the word "complex" appear in my discussion). It includes the visible and invisible portion (which in turn includes the invisible portion's effect on the visible portion). Why? Because we only really get to see the work of the whole complex, so I count scores for the whole complex.

The complex is additive, so one of the three components can "win" the requisite "points", or two of them added together or even all three. So when I say a BJ is soft, I mean that Cloth + Barrier + Field together cannot make it hard, so the wind flips it about. When I say it doesn't defend against whips and windblast, it means that the combination together can't do it. When I say it is thin, I mean the aggregate thickness, too.
And I don't know how many times I have to restate that I don't consider the clothing to be part of the defensive complex, beyond that of a generator; it's mentioned that the gems on Nanoha's BJ are field and barrier generators, so the clothing is essentially the generator for the field and barrier. Now I dunno about you, but IIRC it's a scifi convention that generators aren't good at tanking (and this probably has basis in truth: engines and generators can get fucked up easily).

Also, I note something you overlooked: when I said the BJ is like Kevlar, I did not say "Made of Kevlar". I said "like Kevlar" in function. It is the magical equivalent of a Class II Kevlar soft vest, in that it is intended to provide last ditch light protection against magic.

Quote:
Nobody ever really explains how they plan to "magically" damp the impacts, even in conceptual form.
I always envisioned something more like the barrier acting as a giant invisible magical airbrake.

Quote:
Then why don't we just simplify it to say that the BJ simply isn't very protective against anything physical? This discussion is getting to the point where people are willing to say that the anti-physical defenses have to be manually activated for them to work in the name of saving power. It seems like they would accept almost anything other than the employment of an active defense.
Isn't that what I've been saying? It protects against collision impact and light magical damage but is vulnerable to cutting and piercing. Take my analogy of the Level II vest. A Level II or a Level I vest is light, and can protect the wearer against collision impact injuries and can be worn a lot easier that a military Level IIIA vest, and can tank a limited pistol rounds, yet can be penetrated by knife stabs. What more swords.

And you're not much help. One moment AIs are really smart, then the next you say they're not that smart.

Also, remember Rein is small. Scale up the bug and her appropriately to human size.



Quote:
Spoiler for Long rant is long:
Will adress in depth later, but I always favored something like the barrier spreading out to be a giant airbrake. I mean, if flying mages can hit the brakes in midair and turn on a dime...

...wait, what about the Barrier and field deploying as an airbag? I mean, airbags autodeploy, they don't deploy manually, and it could be a working solution. BJ deploying a magical airbag. :P

Quote:
Well, I have to side with them on this one. If you take the Japanese literally, "Vice / Assistant Captain" or even more accurately "Vice Chief (in the leader sense, not an NCO) / Commander (not an O-5)" is more accurate. Overly pressing your own culture's peculiarities onto others can sometimes lead to disastrous errors. Which is why I actually liked what 7Arcs did with the cards. They made it clear that Midchildran is not exactly English (this is almost certainly deliberate rather than Not Doing Research, because even an auto-translator won't come up with such results), as is their rank system.
And I disagree on this point. When translating, it's best to use a term that conveys the same meaning as much as possible to the audience. In the english-speaking world, the military title of Vice Captain for a ship XO does not exist, thus if the fansub is aimed at an english audience, you need to use a term the audience will get.

Say I'm translating "Fukuchou" into Bahasa Malaysia. In Malaysia, we have the malay equivalents of the terms you tossed on, so I use the malay versions. Thus there's Timbalan Kapten (actual Navy title, though the Army is moving away to Pegawai Eksekutif and Pegawai Pemerintah), or as you mentioned your other example, Ketua and Penolong Ketua (fun fact, the formal title for an Army Corporal in Malaysia is Penolong Ketua Seksyen - Assistant Section Leader/Chief - while Sergeant is Ketua Seksyen - Section Leader/Chief.

...both are still called Corporal and Sergeant, however. (Or rather, "Korperal" and "Serjan".)

But if it's in english, then god the headaches in keeping it all ngam. *sighs*

As for Nanoha's ranks and stuff, I'd always thought that they were 7arcs making new ranks using the JSDF as a basis.

*looks up at thread*

...to be honest, I'll state my position here again. BJs protect against impact collision, are vulnerable to physical weapons, aka SWORDS, are NOT tuned for physical protection apart from collision mitigation, and are the magical equivalent of a Level I or a Level II vest which means that you still need to sues barriers and shields for tanking, and while they may or may not stop pistol rounds, BJs cannot tank 14.5mm APFSDS rounds from the Halo 3 sniper rifle or the .45ACP rounds from The Holy Pistol made by Saint John Moses Browning from the plans he received from God over the Mountain amd The Lord saw the Pistol and Blessed it for .45ACP and 1911 is a Holy Union from which ye shall not stray for Being Blessed of the Lord the .45ACP shall Never Shrinketh. So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended.

The whole point? It's a Magical Girl Show. MAGICAL GIRL Lyrical Nanoha. Explore it as much as you want but don't overdo it like ark is doing. As long as it works, it's good enough for meI mean, pilots, tank crews, soldiers, only know enough about their weapons to use them and tell if something's not working. They leave the indepth innards to the repair specialists.

And I think you all should note something: I'm the only person in this thread who wins REGARDLESS of whether Shou or Ark or Myself scores victory in the great debate. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2008-03-22 at 01:22.
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Old 2008-03-22, 01:57   Link #1059
Kagerou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
and while they may or may not stop pistol rounds, BJs cannot tank 14.5mm APFSDS rounds from the Halo 3 sniper rifle or the .45ACP rounds from The Holy Pistol made by Saint John Moses Browning from the plans he received from God over the Mountain amd The Lord saw the Pistol and Blessed it for .45ACP and 1911 is a Holy Union from which ye shall not stray for Being Blessed of the Lord the .45ACP shall Never Shrinketh. So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended.
...

*facepalm*
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Old 2008-03-22, 03:23   Link #1060
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*Bursts in with an entry shotgun, backed by the USMC, tosses in a flashbang, and then rushes forward into the room and tranqs WildGoose.*

Secure him! Quickly! He's done lost it!
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