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Old 2007-03-16, 01:00   Link #81
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus IX View Post
Maybe someday we'll start seeing KyoAni caliber animation from companies that aren't called KyoAni... and maybe some of those uber-l33t-looking shows will be stuff that gets your blood pumping.
As far as I know there is no company called KyoAni on paper to begin with, so by that logic there is no such thing as KyoAni Caliber Animation. Mind Taking! Apparently this company Kyoto Animation however may in fact be affiliated with Sunrise. Here's the business plan as it exists officialy for this Kyoto Animation Company http://www.kyotoanimation.co.jp/data...ny_gaiyou.html . I couldn't turn up anything on a KyoAni though.
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Old 2007-03-16, 01:09   Link #82
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As it stands though all I'm seeing is a company that takes already popular source material from dating sims and does its best to make it into a solid anime and that's just not enough to cut it for me right off the bat like it is for some other people. Maybe another Full Metal Panic would be enough to change my mind. I've yet to see the Second Raid, so I'll hold off a bit on the criticism until then. Except for this one. How Can You Fail To Succeed If You Don't Take Any Risks? Think about that one for a second.
If it's different genres you want KyoAni to take on, you'll have to know that there's no "easy" or "difficult" genre. Every genre piece can be trash or sheer masterpiece, and requires huge amounts of its own kind of work and effort. Even mindless harem comedies have their trash and their brilliant masterpieces.

The work KyoAni's doing is some difficult work indeed. Certainly they have good source material to fall back on, but translating words into animation involves a lot. Cinematography is daaaaaammn harder work than most people may think.

Now if we take on the underlining concerns that seem to be fueling your criticism there, you may be asking why KyoAni keeps doing adaptations instead of original work.

Well, making an entirely original work can actually be much easier than adapting an existing one because with an original piece, you're the boss. You get to make it all up. With adaptations, you have to worry about being faithful to the source. You have to translate someone else's vision onto the screen rather than your own.

Of course, if you're making some ginormous epic original piece, that's a whole different story. Of course, you could also try to adapt a ginormous epic source material as well.


And lastly, there are fans like us who want this or this erogame or manga on the screen. And who are the ones to undergo the painstaking work to fulfill our wishes?
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Old 2007-03-16, 01:41   Link #83
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Originally Posted by Sushi-Y View Post
The game vets are the biggest victims here. Knowing just how great the game was makes it all the more painful to wait for. ^^;
同感です! I already feel like losing sleep just thinking of how my favorite scenes will get animated. My jaw literally dropped seeing Tomoyo's 64hit combo. It wasn't exactly how I imagined it to be (overkill?) but wow... that was pure euphoria.

For now, all we can do is pinch our cheeks and wait for the next tidbit of news they throw at us... (;・∀・) (ワン! ワン!)

Quote:
Nojima Kenji, who was announced as Tomoya's voice actor for the upcoming CLANNAD drama CDs, would be an awesome choice, I think (think Nanaya Shiki from Melty Blood).
Ah, I remember reading that in a blog somewhere. I agree, his Nanaya style voice fits Tomoya's character pretty well, sort of sexy and badass. (This is coming from a guys pov too) (ノ∀`*)

I wonder are the drama CDs sidestories/postscripts or are they just going to reproduce certain scenes from the game?

Quote:
Either way, Tomoyo After was never meant to be Key's "next big game" in the first place anyway, but more of an experiment + bonus.
Fandisc or not, ero-content or not, it was good enough to make me cry a river 。・゜・(ノд`)・゜・。(ともちゃん!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinova
And lastly, there are fans like us who want this or this erogame or manga on the screen. And who are the ones to undergo the painstaking work to fulfill our wishes?
*raises hand* Even if it becomes the next cabbage, the fan will follow it to the end.
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Old 2007-03-16, 01:53   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Maceart View Post

Unlike AIR however, I have no idea what the storyline for CLANNAD is (save for a couple of scanlated manga chapters on Nagisa) so I hope it's quite top notch.
I just found the mangas myself. Guess I'll read the few available ones to start knowing a bit more about the characters.
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Old 2007-03-16, 02:02   Link #85
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Wow, the Kagirobe Animation (( my new name for Kyoto Animation )) drama's already started, and there's not so much of anything except a commercial. :P

Well, this news is good. Of course, an inner-hopeful in my heart kinda wished that that the eventual Clannad TV series by Kagirobe would've came a little later, so that the studio wouldn't exhaust Key's works like tissue papers and has a chance to exploit itself in more experimental works or adaptions, or heck, even an original animation. But one Kagi a year isn't too quick either, so it's not that bad.

On the issue of the studio, although I don't think they're the greatest studio in existence, I'll give them credit for being mostly able to satisfy the fans of the original source material. I'm not a big believer in extreme faithfulness, but if it works to the advantage of the being better, then it's good too. If anything, the one thing I'll give them credit is their solid timing along with the execution of their storyboarding, which shows that they can match a solid feel of a series well.

Anyway, I'd suggest that no one goes overboard on this. Kaioshin's riffiness on the situation isn't whole unjustified of an opinion, since there are a myriad of fans that kind of goes...over-the-top with some of their KyoAnism that was born from their success with Haruhi. The whole Sugita joke too, despite knowing that they're hardly the same character from Haruhi to Kanon. With the way Kanon was executed, it does signify some promise that Clannad will at least deliver decently.
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Old 2007-03-16, 02:22   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
As far as I know there is no company called KyoAni on paper to begin with, so by that logic there is no such thing as KyoAni Caliber Animation. Mind Taking! Apparently this company Kyoto Animation however may in fact be affiliated with Sunrise. Here's the business plan as it exists officialy for this Kyoto Animation Company http://www.kyotoanimation.co.jp/data...ny_gaiyou.html . I couldn't turn up anything on a KyoAni though.

If we're going to nitpick, then to paraphrase you, there's no such company called "Sunrise" on paper to begin with either. That little incorporated makes all the difference, it appears. ~_^

That said, I can relate to where your apathy is coming from. The rather... excessive... amount of fanboyism for KyoAni (or, if you prefer, Kyoto Animation), that stemmed from the proliferation of fans for Haruhi can be a tad trying at times. Still, I approach this particular announcment, that of Clannad TV, as more of a fan of Key & KyoAni together than as a fan of KyoAni alone. I can't say I've ever watched anything of theirs which I haven't enjoyed, but their best works, in my opinion, have been those adaptations of Visual Arts/key's work into the animated medium.

Still. I'll watch Lucky Star & Haruhi/2 as well. Because, well, you know.... it's **KyoAni**


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Old 2007-03-16, 02:31   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinova View Post
If it's different genres you want KyoAni to take on, you'll have to know that there's no "easy" or "difficult" genre. Every genre piece can be trash or sheer masterpiece, and requires huge amounts of its own kind of work and effort. Even mindless harem comedies have their trash and their brilliant masterpieces.

The work KyoAni's doing is some difficult work indeed. Certainly they have good source material to fall back on, but translating words into animation involves a lot. Cinematography is daaaaaammn harder work than most people may think.

Now if we take on the underlining concerns that seem to be fueling your criticism there, you may be asking why KyoAni keeps doing adaptations instead of original work.

Well, making an entirely original work can actually be much easier than adapting an existing one because with an original piece, you're the boss. You get to make it all up. With adaptations, you have to worry about being faithful to the source. You have to translate someone else's vision onto the screen rather than your own.

Of course, if you're making some ginormous epic original piece, that's a whole different story. Of course, you could also try to adapt a ginormous epic source material as well.


And lastly, there are fans like us who want this or this erogame or manga on the screen. And who are the ones to undergo the painstaking work to fulfill our wishes?
You know I can't argue this and all of these things I respect.

What leaves me generally unimpressed with the company is that they seem to not even give two hoots and a holler about my side of the anime fandom, that being Mecha, Shounen and Intellectual thriller type shows. They seem soley focused on the Moe side of the market, which I don't really care for. So I don't think its unfair for me to have a grudge and some tough words to say about where I think they falter in the originality and risk taking department. I also don't think its unfair for me to throw my support away from them and towards companies like Sunrise who at least try to combine both sides of the market together such as with Idolmaster Xenoglossia or even Code Geass with its characters like Nunally and Nina in the midst of what will soon be a World War. What really annoys me is that its so damn easy for Kyoto Animation to win me over by giving their careful and attentive treatment to something I'd enjoy watching for more than a couple episodes, yet they constantly refuse to try anything other than Key stories and Moe Light Novels. I also consider Full Metal Panic to be more of a joint venture series with Kyoto Animation playing a partner role and being handed the reigns by Gonzo and them working with other companies to complete the project.

and to the guy (girl?) above, there is a company called Sunrise. Sunrise Inc. is a the amalgamation under Bandai and Sunrise is the name of the studio as it was before the buy out. The company has gone by three names including Sunrise, Nippon Sunrise and Sunrise Inc. KyoAni is just a nickname that people insist on using to drive people who don't like acronyms (like me) up the wall and isn't actually its official name anywhere in legal documents.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-03-16 at 02:42.
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Old 2007-03-16, 03:09   Link #88
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I could have sworn the Full Metal Panic franchise fell under "Mecha"...

Meh, I can't stand mecha shows anyway, which explains my dislike of Sunrise INC. and their seemingly unexaustive and repetitive spew of such shows. To each their own, eh?
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Old 2007-03-16, 03:11   Link #89
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Tell me something, are you going to appear in every single thread to remind us how much you strongly dislike Kyoto Animation?

Cause seriously, it's that simple that if you don't like it, don't get close to it. If you do still insist on approaching the material, please be considerate and not place your hate up on display? Cause we really get the point from 'haruhi' and 'kanon'.

If the company doesn't want to do it, then you'll just have to look somewhere else.

Or is it that all you want is just a 'Mecha, Shounen and Intellectual thriller type shows' that is produce by the same quality of what Kyoto Animation has been producing, but because no other company can do it like them, you are left with no chioce then to constantly flame Kyoto Animation into submission?

Also, fighting over names is really silly.

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Old 2007-03-16, 03:44   Link #90
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Cause seriously, it's that simple that if you don't like it, don't get close to it.
Have you considered that that may not in fact be possible in this day and age of every project they do being very prominent throughout anime boards, blogs and gatherings on the internet. This first became apparent with Haruhi last year and it was such a rude awakening I came here to see what was up. The rest as they say is history and now I just want to learn and talk as much as possible about anything, regardless of whether I like it or not. If you can't avoid it, go to the source and find out what is going down first hand. That way you understand at least a little bit, you feel more in control of things even if it is an artificial sense of empowerment and it becomes less jarring to see something pop up everywhere you look. When you now know for a fact what is going on, since you where there from the start on day one, there is a certain comfort to and security to be had later on. Guess who of all people had the first post on ANN's announcement for Clannad? I know somebody knows and he's lurking just above your post.
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Old 2007-03-16, 03:46   Link #91
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I think Clannad TV is a great opportunity for Kyoto Animation to make some advances when it comes to character design and development. One criticism I have is that some of their female characters push the boundaries of moe, to the point that they either become superficial, one-dimensional, or both. This may be a desirable quality to have in certain side characters, but certainly not in the leads.

In comparison, other studios such as J.C. Staff has shown that they can create moe females that have rich personalities. Characters such as Nodame from Nodame Cantabile, or Shouko/Karada from Asatte no Houkou have that moe factor as well, but that is just one of many factors that make these characters endearing. Their eagerness, willingness to use their talents, and their ability to interact with others really set them apart.

Nagisa in Clannad is much more involved in resolving problems than, say, Misuzu or Ayu, so I think Kyoto Animation has something to work with. I'd like to see them invest a bit more effort into her character development - as she changes from a person who is too timid to speak to others, to a person who develops a circle of friends and quietly supports them.
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Old 2007-03-16, 03:52   Link #92
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I don't see what's wrong with Kyo-Ani padding their pockets by going for the moe market. They are a business after all. The moe market in Japan was estimated to be worth $807 million in 2003.

They get enough money in the bank by doing the moe titles maybe then they can finance some more independent works again.

Hey, the more Key titles they animate, the happier I get.
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Old 2007-03-16, 03:53   Link #93
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Originally Posted by DanielSong39 View Post
I think Clannad TV is a great opportunity for Kyoto Animation to make some advances when it comes to character design and development. One criticism I have is that some of their female characters push the boundaries of moe, to the point that they either become superficial, one-dimensional, or both. This may be a desirable quality to have in certain side characters, but certainly not in the leads.
One more before I go to bed. I consider the Moe thing to be more of a side effect of H-Game character personalities. It's not exactly Kyoto Animation's fault per se, but the cahracters they were given to work with are just to cutesy for their own good. Now if what you say about Clannad is true it's starting to sound more appealing, because one of the things that keeps me from normally enjoying these shows for more than a few episodes is that I get overloaded with moe so quickly that I can't continue without short circuiting. It's already been an experience of a lifetime at that point. I call it the 1/4 Law, wherein for me to be able to enjoy an episode, no more than 1/4 of the episode can rely soley on moe antics to fill time. I think that's a reasonable expectation of any series if it plans on making any sort of impact other than "That's so cute". Take Yggdra Loli, the characters are ungodly cute looking and it makes the art style quirky and fun to look at, but the story is actually fairly serious and militaristic and the characters keep developing as well throughout the stage. An example would be Yggdra evolving from an innocent naive princess into a warmongerer and then into a strong and compassionate leader. This satisfies the 1/4 law quite well, containing just the right amount of moe.

And holy crap there's an economics article on Moe. I think the article speaks for everything I've talked about to this point, the exploitation, the realization of how easy it is to milk a certain sect of people, and the trend's direction as whole. Simply unbelievable though. I knew it was a huge market, but to think its worth 2 Trillion Yen.... I think I need to research this a bit as this is damn interesting. Seeing as this article is from 2005, I wonder if we have already passed the peak of Moe' overwhelming popularity and are on the way back down the other side of the slope, settling into somewhere comfortable, but not out of control (small doses within episodes instead of entire series). This almost singlehandly explains all of 2005-mid 2006 and why it was such a weak season.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-03-16 at 04:17.
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Old 2007-03-16, 04:06   Link #94
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Arrow

KyoAni is just an abbreviation. Yeesh. Just like how GSD stands for Gundam SEED Destiny, or how SAM stands for Surface to Air Missile. I think it is pretty petty to nitpick on something not worth nitpicking over. What the heck does an abbreviation has to do with a company's worth? If you want to moan about "nicknames", at least do it to something that genuinely deserves it. Otherwise, it will just be interpreted as ravings on your account( of the negative kind).
~~~~ ~~~~

Stirring back to the topic of CLANNAD, I will just restate what I wrote in the deleted thread. Despite knowing some of the plot of CLANNAD due to repeated exposure to spoilers, I am more or less a newcomer to the storyline. I am looking forward to be entertained by the TV series.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-03-16, 04:20   Link #95
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Have I considered those? No to be honest, they didn't come to mind, I apologize for that.

Thank you for pointing out the one flaw from my post.
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Old 2007-03-16, 04:23   Link #96
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1. For me, Kyoto Animation craze started with Air. I watched it like back in late 2k4 or early 2k5 (?), and thought : "Wow, this is how Kanon should have been." (I got into the Keyverse mostly because of the game Eternal Fighter Zero and some Korean American guy I've known for a while).


2. And mo is awesome! Without it, I'd not have things like Aria and the Touhou franchise.

3. My anime experience is waaay more different from Kaioshin. I've seen lot of shonen, mecha shows and action in the past, to the point I've come to think "Enough is enough!". My point? People enjoy different things because of the sum of their life experience, age, and a lot more factor you can even think of. You can NOT expect them to enjoy the same genre as you do.

4. I am happy with what I've seen from Kyoto Animation. They only do mo and no mecha/shonen/action show? So fucking what? I've liked John Carpenter because he did horror movies ("The Thing", "In the Mouth of Madness") good! And have proven he can do good comedy too ("Big Trouble in Little China"). But are we going to scorn him because he have not done a romantic movie yet? Hell no.
I mean as long as Kyoto Animation delivers, I don't see myself whining and bitching at the point of being a pest.

Protip: from now on, avoid anything mo or Kyoto Animation. We got it!
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Old 2007-03-16, 04:55   Link #97
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Spoiler for Kaioshin_Sama:


Ahh, long rant. o_o; To start some more discussion... how many here are total Clannad virgins? I am, and I'll resist the urge to spoil myself silly this time around. Must not read Wiki article...
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Old 2007-03-16, 05:07   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
I consider the Moe thing to be more of a side effect of H-Game character personalities. It's not exactly Kyoto Animation's fault per se, but the cahracters they were given to work with are just to cutesy for their own good.
I don't like the sound of your post. You make it sound like Kyoto Animation gets a pile of crap everytime they start a series and they turn it into something awesome. Wrong! The material they get has been awesome from the start, and what Kyoto Animation does best is faithful adaptations. Kyoto Animation certainly didn't want to reduce the mo; that would be just plain old stupid because their series target a specific audience. Whether another kind of audience accepts their work is a completely different story, and certainly if it appealed to them it doesn't mean it was made for them.
Quote:
I think the article speaks for everything I've talked about to this point, the exploitation, the realization of how easy it is to milk a certain sect of people, and the trend's direction as whole. Simply unbelievable though. I knew it was a huge market, but to think its worth 2 Trillion Yen...
I think you're speaking to the wrong crowd here. We know that sometimes we're getting milked way too much, but that's a part of any nich market. If the companies and ourselves want to keep that alive, it's in everyone's best interest that companies produce quality merchandise and consequently the consumers, ourselves buy that quality. As it was said numerous times, we're a pretty unforgiving bunch, so screw-ups aren't allowed.
I figure the only people that frown upon this business model are the people who don't care much about mo and wish to see it disappear, or the people that don't pay a dime for anything and are rude enough to whine about it.
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Old 2007-03-16, 05:57   Link #99
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@ Sai

I suppose I count as a Clannad 'virgin', having never played the game or much encountered any of the story at all, apart from a few tantalising hints around various online venues - a l this forum, at times. This wasn't the case with either Air or Kanon, so I'm highly looking forward to my first 'uncontaminated', or perhaps 'unknowing' exposure to a key game cum anime. I've listened to the OST for Clannad a few times, and to that of Tomoyo After - but that's largely because of my love for Lia and the Key Music Trinity (Maeda, Orito, Togoshi).

@ kaoshin

Firstly, Studio Sunrise (Sunrise Studios, perhaps), Nippon Sunrise, Sunrise Inc. Yes, I'm aware that it's referred to as 'Sunrise' in common parlance, but, names as names. That said, the subject is rather silly. Oh, and just a quickie... nicknames/abbrev.'s are common usage, aren't they? My own name is abbreviated in common usage, names of countries (for instance, the United States of America as US, or America), slang terms, nicknames... all part of common language, I feel.

As to the mo factor, well... it's a market. Products aimed at that market sell, and they will continue to sell for rather obvious reasons - the consumers are still there. And from the numbers, it looks as if it's still growing, so it isn't as if companies that specialise in material aimed at that market - in which grouping we could place, albeit loosely, Kyoto Animation (hereafter KyoAni) - are going to stop producing content, until the market shifts again, or metamorphoses into something else.

Your point, realistically, seems to be that you dislike KyoAni and the like because they don't produce content aimed at your particular set of the market. All well and good; you are entitled to like or dislike whatever material you wish. Myself, I'm not a fan of mecha products or of (almost all) shounen products. Much as you dislike the mo genre, I find mecha/shounen to be personally boring and not worth my time, nor my effort. And again, that's quite fair, my opinion is as it is, and I am entitled to hold it.

However, I would not, for instance, open up a discussion thread on the latest Gundam show, and then proceed to post about how much I disliked the studio (Sunrise, I believe?) because they weren't out their producing romantic comedies, or mo shows, or other shows in which I might have some interest. That's where my comprehension of what you're doing breaks down - surely there are plenty of other animation studios out there, and plenty of other shows, that do suit your interests and are worthy of your attention - so why the (if you'll pardon me) rampantly unnecessary antagonism here?

You have mentioned that KyoAni seem to 'win you over' with what you refer to as their 'careful and attentive treatment' to the source material, yet, the source material is never what you would prefer to watch. You wrote:

I also don't think its unfair for me to throw my support away from them and towards companies like Sunrise...

which is again, quite fair and quite justified. KyoAni aren't producing content for your market interests. You clearly stated yourself, Sunrise is. Yet, because KyoAni are producing mo shows, you feel somehow offended? There are plenty of studios out there that are catering to your tastes, and plenty of shows/content for you to consume that meets said tastes. Why then, this discussion?

Best wishes,


-Andiyar
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Old 2007-03-16, 07:55   Link #100
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...

Could I make a suggestion, fellas? Drop the anime company discussion? It's way too off-topic in this thread.

Instead, talk about CLANNAD, like you should be. Or the CLANNAD project. Up to you.
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