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Old 2008-02-05, 21:38   Link #1261
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
I would like it if the creators of Clannad explored the "Hidden World" more. I would like, once all the character arcs are over, for the series to have a overarcing plot kick in. In Air, we had the whole overarching "Winged People" plot going on with the individual girls' stories being subplots. In Kanon, we had Ayu's "astro-projection" theme that seemed to be nothing more than narration at the beginning of each episode and the end of series with her waking up. There didn't seem to be any central theme or on-going plot in Kanon 2006. Clannad seems to have that whole Hidden World, Girl in the Hidden World and that Robot that she created buildup going on, that may potentially lead to some big adventure that Tomoya and the gang get sucked into the Hidden World and have to fight for their lives, unseen enemies, each other and themselves.

It's just that in Kanon 2006 and Air, the character arcs finish and the series comes to an end. Why not do with these fully-fleshed out characters? Send them on a big mysterious adventure or something!!! Why throw away all that time you spent developing these characters and instead do something with them?
Erm, I don't think I want to see CLANNAD take a Gurren Lagann turn...
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Old 2008-02-05, 22:08   Link #1262
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In before "Pierce the heavens with your dango!"

That said, aren't the Key games (and most games of this genre for that matter) structured pretty much like that? No real overreaching plot, just character arcs so that you can pick your girl at the end?
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Old 2008-02-05, 22:30   Link #1263
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
In before "Pierce the heavens with your dango!"

That said, aren't the Key games (and most games of this genre for that matter) structured pretty much like that? No real overreaching plot, just character arcs so that you can pick your girl at the end?


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The Visual Novels are that way. The difference being that Visual Novels are interactive entertainment while things like movies and anime are passive. The director, animators and writers have a bigger opportunity to engage the viewer, who wants to be titilated since he's not actively involved in the anime like he or she would be in a game. What works in a game doesn't always translate well into an anime. Yes Clannadis a great visual novel, but I believe that an anime adaption should be approached a little differently. There are no seperate paths in the anime instead their is an opportunityh to combine all of the girls' storylines and create one cohesive overarching plot. I believe that the aniem adaption of Clannad should go above and beyond just trying to tell the game's story.

It is an anime and not a game, and thus, I have different expectations for it. X TV and X The Movie gave the franchise two original closures, which the manga was unable to do in its original incarnation.

Clannad is an adaption of an already existing storyline, and thus, I believe can serve as a great opportuinty for the director and writers to improve on the original game and iron out flaws. Like X TV, Clannad has the ability to go above and beyond being a simple Visual Novel adaption.
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Old 2008-02-06, 01:37   Link #1264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
The Visual Novels are that way. The difference being that Visual Novels are interactive entertainment while things like movies and anime are passive. The director, animators and writers have a bigger opportunity to engage the viewer, who wants to be titillated since he's not actively involved in the anime like he or she would be in a game. What works in a game doesn't always translate well into an anime. Yes Clannad is a great visual novel, but I believe that an anime adaption should be approached a little differently. There are no seperate paths in the anime instead their is an opportunity to combine all of the girls' storylines and create one cohesive overarching plot. I believe that the anime adaption of Clannad should go above and beyond just trying to tell the game's story.

It is an anime and not a game, and thus, I have different expectations for it. X TV and X The Movie gave the franchise two original closures, which the manga was unable to do in its original incarnation.

Clannad is an adaption of an already existing storyline, and thus, I believe can serve as a great opportunity for the director and writers to improve on the original game and iron out flaws. Like X TV, Clannad has the ability to go above and beyond being a simple Visual Novel adaption.
I don't think X is a good example to be using as a standard of comparison. The TV and Movie were able to give the series two different endings because the source material was halted altogether, giving the adaptations the freedom to write their own endings.

You're right in that the anime (and movie for that matter) adaptation of Clannad gives the director and writers to improve upon the original material. However what you're asking for is new material to be created so that there can be an additional plotline where all the characters can participate. For what the story is trying to achieve (ie. BAWWWWWWWW), this isn't really necessary.

As the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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Old 2008-02-06, 03:20   Link #1265
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Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
It's just that in Kanon 2006 and Air, the character arcs finish and the series comes to an end. Why not do with these fully-fleshed out characters? Send them on a big mysterious adventure or something!!! Why throw away all that time you spent developing these characters and instead do something with them?
Because maybe those of us who have been through the visual novel don't want to commit suicide at the thought of these works of art turn into something like Mai-Otome?

What I'm trying to say is what DJ_RockmanX said above me: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
That said, aren't the Key games (and most games of this genre for that matter) structured pretty much like that? No real overreaching plot, just character arcs so that you can pick your girl at the end?
Having been through Little Busters!, I have to disagree. Sure you get to see different character's routes develop and conclude at the end if you choose the right options - I would hardly call it a "pick your girl adventure"... There are elements also which lead to an ultimate plot so it seems a bit far-fetched to claim that there isn't any "overreaching plot".
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:21   Link #1266
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Originally Posted by boggart View Post
Because maybe those of us who have been through the visual novel don't want to commit suicide at the thought of these works of art turn into something like Mai-Otome?

What I'm trying to say is what DJ_RockmanX said above me: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
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So, you're in favor of direct adaptations? I personally am against that inclination. Why do the same thing that happened in the original movie, book, game, anime, manga? Put your own twist on it. It's the director's and writiers' adaption of the original work and thus they have the right to put their own spin on it.

It's called "artistic license." I valve "artistic license" over "If it anin't broke, don't fix it."

Look at Ah! My Goddess. The OVA and Moive play out differently from the original manga, and they are much more interesting then if they were meer renditions of the manga. They are my favorite partsof the series along with Chibi Goddesses!!! which has a lot of material not present in the manga as well. The TV adaption of AMG! TV is bland in my opinion. Both seasons are. In trying to being faithful to the manga, the series also inherits much of the manga's flaws. Characters get more and more flat and generic as the series goes along, the series is not suspenseful, since I've already read 32 volumes of the manga, and it just feels like it's trying to follow in the shadow of the manga instead of being it's own thing.

Whether you're trying to be faithful in regards to an adapation or not, you have to be flexibl. KyoAni is very good in general in that regard.

I just hate purists that always cry and moan about changes, no matter how major or minor, to their beloved "original" work.
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:45   Link #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
So, you're in favor of direct adaptations? I personally am against that inclination. Why do the same thing that happened in the original movie, book, game, anime, manga? Put your own twist on it. It's the director's and writiers' adaption of the original work and thus they have the right to put their own spin on it. [...] I just hate purists that always cry and moan about changes, no matter how major or minor, to their beloved "original" work.
That may be, however, the big advertised point about the Kyoto Animation adaptations of Key works is that they were to be, to the extent possible, faithful to the original works. This is exactly why they remade Kanon, even though it already had an anime adaptation -- the game fans didn't like how the original anime adaptation diverged from the original game. Even the deviations they did make in the new adaptation were heavily criticized (but, for the most part, accepted). (That was also, by the way, one of the big advertised features of the new Oh! My Goddess anime series -- that they were going to try to "animate the manga".)

Basically... don't expect them to go off in a bold new direction anytime soon. Kyoto Animation is being paid to do a faithful adaptation because that's what the people buying the DVDs want. And given how financially successful it's been so far, there's no way they're going to mess with what works, "artistic license" and preferences notwithstanding. Even though I certainly consider anime art, and animators artists, it all exists, first and foremost, to make money.
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:48   Link #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
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So, you're in favor of direct adaptations? I personally am against that inclination. Why do the same thing that happened in the original movie, book, game, anime, manga? Put your own twist on it. It's the director's and writiers' adaption of the original work and thus they have the right to put their own spin on it.

It's called "artistic license." I valve "artistic license" over "If it anin't broke, don't fix it."

Look at Ah! My Goddess. The OVA and Moive play out differently from the original manga, and they are much more interesting then if they were meer renditions of the manga. They are my favorite partsof the series along with Chibi Goddesses!!! which has a lot of material not present in the manga as well. The TV adaption of AMG! TV is bland in my opinion. Both seasons are. In trying to being faithful to the manga, the series also inherits much of the manga's flaws. Characters get more and more flat and generic as the series goes along, the series is not suspenseful, since I've already read 32 volumes of the manga, and it just feels like it's trying to follow in the shadow of the manga instead of being it's own thing.

Whether you're trying to be faithful in regards to an adapation or not, you have to be flexibl. KyoAni is very good in general in that regard.

I just hate purists that always cry and moan about changes, no matter how major or minor, to their beloved "original" work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That may be, however, the big advertised point about the Kyoto Animation adaptations of Key works is that they were to be, to the extent possible, faithful to the original works. This is exactly why they remade Kanon, even though it already had an anime adaptation -- the game fans didn't like how the original anime adaptation diverged from the original game. Even the deviations they did make in the new adaptation were heavily criticized (but, for the most part, accepted). (That was also, by the way, one of the big advertised features of the new Oh! My Goddess anime series -- that they were going to try to "animate the manga".)

Basically... don't expect them to go off in a bold new direction anytime soon. Kyoto Animation is being paid to do a faithful adaptation because that's what the people buying the DVDs want. And given how financially successful it's been so far, there's no way they're going to mess with what works, "artistic license" and preferences notwithstanding. Even though I certainly consider anime art, and animators artists, it all exists, first and foremost, to make money.
And besides, if one does need a unique "twist" on a KEY adaptations, there's always the Toei ones. In effect, the Toei and KyoAni adaptations of KEY works not only differ in their animation style (I hugely prefer the latter, but that's just me fanboying. ), they also differ in that they cater to different segments.

Personally I'm in the "faithful adaptation" camp myself, and even now I still vastly prefer KyoAni's faithful adaptation over Toei's creative licenses, but nowadays I recognise that both are there for a reason (which is more than I can say about myself when I first joined AS ). So if creative license is what you're looking for, Toei's Kanon (2002), AIR the Movie, and CLANNAD the Movie should be more to your taste.
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Old 2008-02-07, 01:33   Link #1269
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
And besides, if one does need a unique "twist" on a KEY adaptations, there's always the Toei ones. In effect, the Toei and KyoAni adaptations of KEY works not only differ in their animation style (I hugely prefer the latter, but that's just me fanboying. ), they also differ in that they cater to different segments.

...

So if creative license is what you're looking for, Toei's Kanon (2002), AIR the Movie, and CLANNAD the Movie should be more to your taste.
And if that's not enough for you, there's a whole world of doujinshi and fanfics for you to explore the more "artistically inclined" adaptations.
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Old 2008-02-07, 14:43   Link #1270
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With the postpones of the non-wide screen station, I wonder if both stations will wind up playing the finale on the same week...
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Old 2008-02-07, 14:47   Link #1271
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With the postpones of the non-wide screen station, I wonder if both stations will wind up playing the finale on the same week...
Oh, that would be hard. Clannad as of right now is posed to end April 3rd Non Widescreen and April 10th Widescreen. The 3rd is already going into the Spring Cour, and I doubt they'd want to go 2 weeks in.

That also means they would have to show Clannad on the 14th, break the 21st, then go 3 weeks, break, 3 weeks, finish.
That would not make me happy.
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Old 2008-02-08, 02:31   Link #1272
todkapuz
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Oh, that would be hard. Clannad as of right now is posed to end April 3rd Non Widescreen and April 10th Widescreen. The 3rd is already going into the Spring Cour, and I doubt they'd want to go 2 weeks in.

That also means they would have to show Clannad on the 14th, break the 21st, then go 3 weeks, break, 3 weeks, finish.
That would not make me happy.
Hmm.. but just 1 more break by TBS and it will be a reality. I dunno... doesnt matter really ... but considering they will only be 1 episode apart after the 28th... instead of 3 ... who knows... I haven't bothered to look at the schedules.. if there are any
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Old 2008-02-09, 04:38   Link #1273
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Am I the only one who thinks, that Tomoya has a great similarity to Nagisa's father?
So in the future, Tomoya and Nagisa will be like Nagisa's parents...
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Old 2008-02-09, 09:21   Link #1274
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So Nagisa has an electra complex now? XD
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Old 2008-02-10, 12:24   Link #1275
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hey i just started watching clannad.. i just want to say
this shows really something else isnt it?
not sure what it is, but its awesome! though im only through 10 episodes..
now please continue with the thread

just hope it doesnt have a depressing ending.. too good for that

Last edited by oompa loompa; 2008-02-10 at 14:11.
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Old 2008-02-11, 17:10   Link #1276
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So, I was thinking about spring as I was walking to class today (It's like 20 degrees Farenheit here. ), and my mind naturally wandered to Clannad, and comparing it to the other seasonal Key games.
So, here's what I'm thinking. In Kanon and Air, I know at least in the anime adaptations, the season plays a really large role. Like Kanon is a lot about snow, and there are some scenes where that plays a really large importance. And Air is a lot about the heat and the ocean, and makes a ton of references to how it is summer.
But with Clannad, I really have not seen too many references to the season. The sakura petals, the change in uniforms, and maybe the green garden in Kotomi's route seem to be the only mentions of spring that I've seen (Well, other than some of the clothing that they are wearing that would never be worn in the winter... LOL) Am I missing something, or does Clannad really have the least seasonal oriented story of the three seasonal VNs?
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Old 2008-02-12, 08:56   Link #1277
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... Am I missing something, or does Clannad really have the least seasonal oriented story of the three seasonal VNs?
From this page, Clannad carries the theme of being in a family. Tomoya has referred to Nagisa's family on a few occasions, particularly in the first episode. Most probably, the seasons don't play a part in this story.
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Old 2008-02-18, 02:39   Link #1278
todkapuz
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Not exactly sure which of the sub-threads this really would fit into... so here goes... was re-watching the OP and the order of introductions...

Spoiler for Contains information up to Episode 18, so please don't read until your at 18:


Anyhow.. maybe I'm just looking for significance where none is meant to be.. it is possible.
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Old 2008-02-28, 16:22   Link #1279
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http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/20080228#p4

Whoa... what's this about Clannad being only 22 episodes long? It also mentions that Episode 23 will be a compilation episode of sorts - probably recapping the series. The last sentence queries why the DVD collection will contain 24 episodes and wonders if the extra episode will be a DVD-only release.
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Old 2008-02-28, 16:36   Link #1280
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http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/20080228#p4

Whoa... what's this about Clannad being only 22 episodes long? It also mentions that Episode 23 will be a compilation episode of sorts - probably recapping the series. The last sentence queries why the DVD collection will contain 24 episodes and wonders if the extra episode will be a DVD-only release.
Well, that's... interesting.

And still no information on Haruhi 2...

*despairs*
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