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Old 2007-03-22, 12:46   Link #21
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Oro was great for teaching Sasuke how to become an elite ninja yes, but as far as teaching him how to kill Itachi (how to fight another sharingan user, not to mention an MS sharingan user) I believe Oro did nothing for him in that category. The training Oro gave Sasuke allows him to overpower most ninjas yes, but Itachi is not like most ninjas, and that was the whole reason for Sasuke's training with Oro.
Facing Itachi wasn't supposed to occur until Oro had already transferred to Sasuke's body and gained the Sharingan's powers. Teaching Sasuke how to fight effectively against Itachi was impossible for Oro anyway since he himself doesn't know how defend against the Sharingan.

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Originally Posted by Henai Guy
And, although very strong, he didn't seem overpowered in the same way Sasuke is...when he uses his power, it actually weakens him.
Ah, but Itachi was using MS, which Sasuke hasn't used at all at yet.


It's odd though that unlike Naruto and Sakura who both use the respective jutsu of Jiraiya and Tsunade, Sasuke doesn't use any of Oro techniques aside from wielding a version of the Kusanagi. Rather, he it seems like he just expanded the skills he had pre-timeskip. It makes me wonder if he was taught any jutsu at all (Hidden Snake Hands, Rashoumon gates, snake summoning, etc) like Anko but doesn't use them as a matter of principle. Or was his training made just to develop his own techniques under the expert guidance of Oro? We see him demanding Oro to teach him a new jutsu so I assume that Oro did teach him something, but Sasuke just hasn't had the chance to use it yet.

Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2007-03-22 at 13:46.
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Old 2007-03-22, 13:31   Link #22
Sinaura
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[QUOTE=Sabaku Kyu;871932]Facing Itachi wasn't supposed to occur until Oro had already transferred to Sasuke's body and gained the Sharingan's powers. Teaching Sasuke how to fight effectively against Itachi was impossible for Oro anyway since he himself doesn't know how defend against the Sharingan./QUOTE]

Exactly, so there was no point for Sasuke to try to gain power from Oro, what power Sasuke has now after 2.5 years is false in front of Itachi. I doubt Sasuke ever planned to give his body up to Oro to kill Itachi, because then it wouldn't have been Sasuke killing Itachi, but Oro in his body.
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Old 2007-03-22, 13:41   Link #23
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Exactly, so there was no point for Sasuke to try to gain power from Oro, what power Sasuke has now after 2.5 years is false in front of Itachi. I doubt Sasuke ever planned to give his body up to Oro to kill Itachi, because then it wouldn't have been Sasuke killing Itachi, but Oro in his body.
Does that mean that Shikamarau couldnt beat Hidan becouse hidan was stronger then Asuma ..

Ofc Orochis training isnt wasting of time ..
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Old 2007-03-22, 15:49   Link #24
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Does that mean that Shikamarau couldnt beat Hidan becouse hidan was stronger then Asuma ..

Ofc Orochis training isnt wasting of time ..
We're not talking about who is "stronger", we're talking about Oro inability to teach Sasuke how to combat Itachi's superior Sharingan. Asuma didn't teach Shika how to beat Hidan, Shika used his own intellect to defeat him. Such is the case with Sasuke, Oro wouldn't be the one to teach Sasuke how to defeat Itachi, it will be Sasuke himself who learns how to beat Itachi. Sasuke's power he obtained from Oro is useless against Itachi, so was pointless.
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Old 2007-03-22, 15:55   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
We're not talking about who is "stronger", we're talking about Oro inability to teach Sasuke how to combat Itachi's superior Sharingan. Asuma didn't teach Shika how to beat Hidan, Shika used his own intellect to defeat him. Such is the case with Sasuke, Oro wouldn't be the one to teach Sasuke how to defeat Itachi, it will be Sasuke himself who learns how to beat Itachi. Sasuke's power he obtained from Oro is useless against Itachi, so was pointless.
why would he teach Sasuke to combat Itachi's superior Sharingan? he thought he was gonna take over Sasuke's body plus Sasuke know more about the Sharingan than Orochimaru! what would Orochimaru teach Sasuke about the Sharingan?
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Old 2007-03-22, 15:58   Link #26
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why would he teach Sasuke to combat Itachi's superior Sharingan? he thought he was gonna take over Sasuke's body plus Sasuke know more about the Sharingan than Orochimaru! what would Orochimaru teach Sasuke about the Sharingan?
Exactly so it was POINTLESS for Sasuke to find Oro for power, power that he thought he could use to fight and kill Itachi, if in fact Oro himself was powerless against Itachi. So why did he bother obtaining power that seems useless against Itachi and his eyes?
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:04   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Exactly so it was POINTLESS for Sasuke to find Oro for power, power that he thought he could use to fight and kill Itachi, if in fact Oro himself was powerless against Itachi. So why did he bother obtaining power that seems useless against Itachi and his eyes?

so you think Sasuke would have learn more staying in Konoha rather than doing non stop training with one of the strongest guys to come out of Konoha for two and half years
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:11   Link #28
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I wouldn't exactly a waist...but it is PROBABLE that it won't help him complete his goal. *shrug*
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:18   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post

so you think Sasuke would have learn more staying in Konoha rather than doing non stop training with one of the strongest guys to come out of Konoha for two and half years
Yes, because that guy Oro is powerless against the Sharingan, according to Itachi and Sasuke. I'm not saying Sasuke hasn't gotten stronger, I'm saying this "strength" he obtained from Oro doesn't seem to get him any closer to Itachi's power.
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:20   Link #30
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Sinaura, agreed, i guess.

I mean it makes total sense. Learning from someone to beat someone in which the person your learning from can't even beat doesn't go anywhere. And we know, and probably sasuke knows that people like Kakashi could atleast stand some chance against Itachi. So I can agree with you that he would have learned more staying in Konoha.
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:24   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Yes, because that guy Oro is powerless against the Sharingan, according to Itachi and Sasuke. I'm not saying Sasuke hasn't gotten stronger, I'm saying this "strength" he obtained from Oro doesn't seem to get him any closer to Itachi's power.
Do we know Itachi's power? and do we know the extent of Sasuke's new power? And Sasuke needed to improve other parts of his fighting technique other than using the Sharingan.
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:27   Link #32
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In a technical sense we don't know Itachi's power...and we don't know the extent of Sasuke's new power. But under these circumstances it's just about the same way it was before the 2.5 year timeskip....since we know Oro can't beat Itachi.
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:42   Link #33
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ffs .. Sasuke went to train under Oro, to get stronger. No one said that Oro will just teach him how to beat Itachi ..

No metter under who someone train, that dont mean he learne just exectly same jutsu as his teacher .. Sasuke learned to put chidori on whole body which Oro dont know to do ..

Orochimaru made him very strong and Sasuke will alone get how to kill Itachi ..
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Old 2007-03-22, 16:43   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Oro was great for teaching Sasuke how to become an elite ninja yes, but as far as teaching him how to kill Itachi (how to fight another sharingan user, not to mention an MS sharingan user) I believe Oro did nothing for him in that category. The training Oro gave Sasuke allows him to overpower most ninjas yes, but Itachi is not like most ninjas, and that was the whole reason for Sasuke's training with Oro.
The best placed to know what a high level Sharingan user can do in combat is Sasuke himself right now and Orochimaru probably knew more about Itachi than Kakashi anyway. You would have a slight point if Sasuke didn't show unbelievable improvement in his use of the Sharingan.
Since he did you have none.

Quote:
We're not talking about who is "stronger", we're talking about Oro inability to teach Sasuke how to combat Itachi's superior Sharingan. Asuma didn't teach Shika how to beat Hidan, Shika used his own intellect to defeat him. Such is the case with Sasuke, Oro wouldn't be the one to teach Sasuke how to defeat Itachi, it will be Sasuke himself who learns how to beat Itachi. Sasuke's power he obtained from Oro is useless against Itachi, so was pointless.
Asuma didn't teach Shika how to beat Hidan but his teaching made him able to do so. Again this has nothing to do with similar fighting style, this is about polishing the abilities and strength of your student.
Did you see Sasuke summoning snakes and licking his nose? No, so realize that you don't make any sense.
Sasuke didn't "obtain power" from Orochimaru. He trained his own abilities and power that will allow him -or not- to deal with Itachi.
The very fact that he possesses the Sharingan to such a degree made him in a better position than Orochimaru to fight against Itachi. If both opponents can predict moves, can read through jutsu and cast/repell Genjutsu and at sight then the outcome of the fight will be decided by their other abilities and jutsu.
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Old 2007-03-22, 17:46   Link #35
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I think the whole reason sasuke stayed there is to make the CS power more effective

it is true that sasuke knows more about sharingran that orochimaru, i don't think orochimaru know about the secret meeting place of uchiha

the other possible reason that sasuke went to orochimaru because kishimoto wanted to make parallels between team 7 conflict and Sannin conflict. (if that is true then it should be Sakura to defeat sasuke Snail > Snake Snake >Frog Frog>Snail)
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Old 2007-03-22, 19:57   Link #36
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The best placed to know what a high level Sharingan user can do in combat is Sasuke himself right now and Orochimaru probably knew more about Itachi than Kakashi anyway. You would have a slight point if Sasuke didn't show unbelievable improvement in his use of the Sharingan.
Since he did you have none.
You actually prove my point then that it was POINTLESS for Saske to have been with Oro for those 2.5 years because Sasuke would've POLISHed his skills on his own regardless, that skill being the use of the Sharingan that is required for him to defeat Itachi.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Asuma didn't teach Shika how to beat Hidan but his teaching made him able to do so. Again this has nothing to do with similar fighting style, this is about polishing the abilities and strength of your student.

Sasuke didn't "obtain power" from Orochimaru. He trained his own abilities and power that will allow him -or not- to deal with Itachi.
Are you saying that Oro polished the abilities and skills of Sasuke like Asuma did with Shika? If so then you contradict yourself by saying it was Sasuke that was the one who trained himself in regards to the Sharingan, not Oro; please clarify.

Sasuke "obtained power" in regards to the knowledge he obtained from Oro, most notable his new arsenal of jutsu. What I am saying is that this is useless against Itachi, and the fact that you point out it was Sasuke himself who polished his skills justifies that it was pointless for Sasuke to have been "training" under Oro.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The very fact that he possesses the Sharingan to such a degree made him in a better position than Orochimaru to fight against Itachi. If both opponents can predict moves, can read through jutsu and cast/repell Genjutsu and at sight then the outcome of the fight will be decided by their other abilities and jutsu.
Take into account what both Itachi AND Sasuke said, "Oro, all your jutsus are useless against these eyes". What point then, would Sasuke have in learning all those "useless" jutsus. If anything the battle between Sasuke and Itachi would be decided in who has superiority with genjutsu.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Did you see Sasuke summoning snakes and licking his nose? No, so realize that you don't make any sense.
I don't understand where this statement came from, just because I said Sasuke obtained power from Oro doesn't mean I meant he has Oro characteristics as well; this is irrelevant.
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Old 2007-03-22, 21:53   Link #37
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@Sinaura

U didnt get what i said and hunter explained to u ..

When Itachi said to Orochimaru " all your jutsus are useless against these eyes", that happened to be Oro ..

"All your jutsu" (even tho u have so many justu, that u learned due forbiden experiments and all)

Itachi didnt mean especially and only Orochimarus jutsu, like he is weakling .. he ment all justu at all r useless against his Sharingan and genjutsu ..
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Old 2007-03-23, 01:06   Link #38
Sinaura
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@Sinaura

U didnt get what i said and hunter explained to u ..

When Itachi said to Orochimaru " all your jutsus are useless against these eyes", that happened to be Oro ..

"All your jutsu" (even tho u have so many justu, that u learned due forbiden experiments and all)

Itachi didnt mean especially and only Orochimarus jutsu, like he is weakling .. he ment all justu at all r useless against his Sharingan and genjutsu ..
Obviously I DID understand what you said, which is why I said it was POINTLESS for Sasuke to learn the SAME jutsus from Oro that Itachi said were useless against his Sharingan and genjutsu, I don't think you understand what I am saying.
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Old 2007-03-23, 01:31   Link #39
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Well i dont think its a waste, he did train his body better with oro than kakashi. Itachi had insane speed, thats y sasuke has one too now coz of oro.

Its not sasuke wasted time with oro, but its Oro wasted time with sasuke

Sasuke did get that insanely strong sword from oro didnt he?
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Old 2007-03-23, 04:49   Link #40
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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
You actually prove my point then that it was POINTLESS for Saske to have been with Oro for those 2.5 years because Sasuke would've POLISHed his skills on his own regardless, that skill being the use of the Sharingan that is required for him to defeat Itachi.

Are you saying that Oro polished the abilities and skills of Sasuke like Asuma did with Shika? If so then you contradict yourself by saying it was Sasuke that was the one who trained himself in regards to the Sharingan, not Oro; please clarify.
No I'm not, you do realize that training isn't a one way thing right? Since Sasuke was trained by Oro Sasuke trained his own abilities.
That's why I corrected the "obtain" because you make it sound like it was somehow given to him just like that. Under Oro's tutelage Sasuke's skills became what they are today just like Asuma trained Shika whereas their fighting style are entirely different.

And I certainely don't prove your point, you are the one saying that Sasuke would have improved like that regardless, not me. If anything you contradict yourself since Kakashi would be equally useless if Sasuke would've polished his skills on his own regardless of who he trained with.
But he wouldn't. It's like saying that Naruto being trained to use the Kyubi's chakra by Jiraiya or Konohamaru during the Chuunin exam would be the same thing because none of them can use the Kyubi's chakra.

Quote:
Sasuke "obtained power" in regards to the knowledge he obtained from Oro, most notable his new arsenal of jutsu. What I am saying is that this is useless against Itachi, and the fact that you point out it was Sasuke himself who polished his skills justifies that it was pointless for Sasuke to have been "training" under Oro.
I said exactly the opposite, I said "this is about polishing the abilities and strength of your student."

Quote:
Take into account what both Itachi AND Sasuke said, "Oro, all your jutsus are useless against these eyes". What point then, would Sasuke have in learning all those "useless" jutsus. If anything the battle between Sasuke and Itachi would be decided in who has superiority with genjutsu.

I don't understand where this statement came from, just because I said Sasuke obtained power from Oro doesn't mean I meant he has Oro characteristics as well; this is irrelevant.
Read your own post if you don't understand where this statement comes from. Your sole point is that since Oro's jutsu were useless against Itachi's Sharingan then what Sasuke has learned is useless as well... Whereas he doesn't even use the same jutsu and also has the Sharingan to counter its effect as well.
But even if he used the exct same jutsu you wouldn't make more sense, Sasuke's Chidori was useless against Itachi. Does that mean if Sasuke becomes 1000x faster it would still be useless? Of course not but it would still be the same jutsu.
In Sasuke's case it's not about 1000x faster, though he very well might have greater physical skills than Orochimaru, but the fact that he's himself a Sharingan user which allows him to negate many advantages of Itachi's own Sharingan which was the reason why Oro's jutsu were useless in the first place.
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