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Old 2007-11-25, 23:54   Link #1001
Hakuryu_Hikaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Well, I don't mind her design... I was mainly talking about her as a character.
Her character sucks and not only hers. I picked on the most innocent thing I've found and all hell broke loose. I just wondered, why go to such trouble to have a earth exactly look alike in the moon. That costs a lot of money! If they didn't tell me it was the moon, I wouldn't know. What's the plot/narrative meaning of that? None. Then again, people go to Japan to eat at McDonalds. Yeah, spend whatever hundreds of dollars and trouble to travel for that. I gather *many* levels of non-sense out of that.

The most obvious metaphor here is resonance for sex. It's so crass. I mean riding somebody!WTF!!!! The couples are totally outrageous. A dirty old man and a prepubescent girl. Her dog and the geezer have the same name, for f***'s sakes!To me, personally, it's just creepy. And the gay ones! They insult the gay community as a whole. And that thing of Jin carry the girl and dog carrying the girl. I am scarred for life with such images. Does that mean that I have to see it *all* to say it's crap? I won't subject my psyche to more of such visual traumas, I like myself!
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Old 2007-11-26, 00:47   Link #1002
Shouta
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Originally Posted by plzd0ntkeelme View Post
So you're saying that he was conscious then becomes an embryo then becomes conscious again like chicken will one day goes back to being an egg then become a chicken again? Well, whatever.
Err, you probably shouldn't apply actual science to the show. As a lot of folks have pointed out already, this show is purely science fiction and the dragons themselves are the best example of that. We don't know the rules of how they're born or what kind of maturation they go through. For all we know, a Resonance may endow the dragon eggs with all the basic information needed to be human and that would explain why there isn't an infant or juvenile stage to them. A good question to think about though. I wonder what the purpose of the Resonance is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakuryu_Hikaru View Post
The most obvious metaphor here is resonance for sex. It's so crass. I mean riding somebody!WTF!!!! The couples are totally outrageous. A dirty old man and a prepubescent girl. Her dog and the geezer have the same name, for f***'s sakes!To me, personally, it's just creepy. And the gay ones! They insult the gay community as a whole. And that thing of Jin carry the girl and dog carrying the girl. I am scarred for life with such images. Does that mean that I have to see it *all* to say it's crap? I won't subject my psyche to more of such visual traumas, I like myself!
Have you actually watched the show or did you just skim it so you could troll?

The most obvious metaphor for Resonance is soulmate. The partners look to be connected by an unspoken bond and the form and personality of the dragon looks to be influenced by the person it's bonded too. All the pairings work like that for the most part.
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Old 2007-11-26, 05:26   Link #1003
Anima
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The only good thing about Toa revealing about the shuttle accident is that it there getting it out of the way. And we can elimante that possibility of them splitting up when ep 20+ come. With that said I really hope Jin forgives her quickly and not waste 2-3 ep with that.
Actually, if it wont take 2-3 episodes for Jin to forgive Toa, it would be rushed IMO. Heck, I could tolerate Toa not being forgiven at all (not just for the shuttle accident but for the bracelet and her name) if a real plot started to show up. But of course, if Dragonaut continue progressing without showing real plot, 2-3 eps might be too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight
I'm tempted to say that Dragonaut has no plot at all, just a random allocation of clichéd elements and it doesn't even try maintaining a sort of consistent character structure enough to develop a believable story.
Ah, I wouldn't say it doesn't have a plot. It's just that it's not shown properly yet IMO. The potential of having a decent plot is good IMO. Now that we know Toa was sent on a mission along with 2 other dragons (which we know that one of them is captured by ISDA & the other is still unknown) and knowing already about Thantos could develop something good but I could be wrong of course. The slow pace of showing anything decent reminds me of Shuffle! Heck that thing didn't show anything decent until ep 12!

On a side note. Watching it for the lawlz, well, I am not sure about that. If I want to watch something for lawlz I'd go with comedy not something which was supposed to be serious but fails to the point of laughter. I am not saying Dragonaut is failure but if it continues like that it will but I was thinking in general.
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Old 2007-11-26, 07:31   Link #1004
Tiamat's Disciple
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Lets face it, Heroic Age started off even worse than this, it wasnt untill the 14-15th episode that that series picked it self up and started to become good. Anbd thaqt series was WAY worse than this one. So there's still a chance for it to recover
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Old 2007-11-26, 07:48   Link #1005
Sinestra
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though i think Heroic Age started off slow i dont think it was worse than this. I mean so far all we have watched is Jin chase Toa around only to be captured escape then be recaptured the chase her again. The only real information that we have gained is the fact that Toa was responsible was the shuttle accident but all of us guessed that a long time ago. I do find the show interesting but lets face it the plot is moving slower than an elderly person playing cricket. The one thing i am finding interesting at this point is that Toa called Thanatos mother and said she will bring everyone back that sparked my interest.

As for Kazuki well he gets worse every episode and has become nothing but an annoyance at this point unable to perceive and deal with events around him he only has is anger and jealousy now its sad. I hope he takes a good look at him self critizing Jin by saying you have changed after the shuttle accident. NO SHIT i just lost my entire family and the public thinks its my fathers fault sorry if im not all buddy buddy and want to slap hands.
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Old 2007-11-26, 08:36   Link #1006
plzd0ntkeelme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
You might want to rethink that question.

Dolly the sheep after all was grown from a removed cell Even if there are as yet problems, we know Dragonaut is over 20 years in the future.


That's different situation altogether, cause it was grown through a mother. Humans did not give it limbs, body and so on, its mother's womb did. Here the embryo is out in the open. It's not in anybody's womb. It is impossible for the scientists to grow body and limbs out of a single cell using artificial means. Even if this anime will suddenly declare that the scientists can do that, it's still impossible to me.
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Old 2007-11-26, 10:12   Link #1007
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Originally Posted by plzd0ntkeelme View Post
That's different situation altogether, cause it was grown through a mother. Humans did not give it limbs, body and so on, its mother's womb did. Here the embryo is out in the open. It's not in anybody's womb. It is impossible for the scientists to grow body and limbs out of a single cell using artificial means. Even if this anime will suddenly declare that the scientists can do that, it's still impossible to me.
We don't know that, it could be a coccoon, egg, or hell just a mass of matter that changes forms.

And i bet there's a lot of stuff thats impossible for you thats possible for others. Speaking japanese is impossible for me but others can. So is physics and chemistry, yet others are able to use and understand it.

Just because something is improbable dosent mean it's impossible. We're talking science fiction here, not science fact. 5th element, Blade Runner, Star Trek, Star Wars and Aliens are all improbable when we look at things from the current scientific stand point, but it dosent mean they're impossible.

I serieously don't understand the hang ups over this, it's an anime for crying out loud. If it was a documentary or something i could understand, but getting all bent out of shape of lack of realism in an anime is just plain nuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
though i think Heroic Age started off slow i dont think it was worse than this.
Your forgetting that at the begining of HA all we had was Age going balistic and descimating anything and everything he sneezed at, then going goo goo over Hime. Sure it's different in the respect the plot was more open, but it's scripting and portrayal were worse than this series. It wasn't until ep 10 that things started to pick up, and the 14/15th episode for things to become interesting.

I'm not saying Dragonaut is going to be better or worse, just saying it has the potential to do a HA, bad slow start, better middle and awesome end. I mean, we're still watching Dragonaut, a lot of people gave up with HA after the 5/6th episode and then picked it up again much later.
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Old 2007-11-26, 12:58   Link #1008
outlaw97
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To me the science fiction aspect just seems to be a stylistic choice more than anything else - the team wanted a futuristic/techy atmosphere to the series, perhaps in order to have a unique twist on the concept of dragons, and then they just try to accommodate that vision. So while yes, certain aspects do require a large suspension of disbelief, sometimes bordering on science = magic, it's just a backdrop to carry the theme.

Which would be, judging from the most recent episode, that of Fate/Destiny, and going against it. We already have three instances of this:

1. Toa and her mission (fate?) from Mother versus her feelings toward Jin

2. Gio and his instinctive need to protect Toa

3. The other dragons (notably Howling Star), and their purpose in the ISDA

It's hard to say at this point whether Toa really has any romantic feelings towards Jin, or if it's just guilt from having killed his family. That, combined with "Mother's" reminder of her mission, provides at least some explanation of her unstable push/pull behavior towards Jin. Can't say I'm exactly happy with it, but we can hope it gets portrayed a little better as it goes on.

Also, Hakuryu_Hikaru - you seriously must have some free time to not only view a thread to a series you don't follow, but then watch random episodes out of context to support your trolling. I'm not following Blue Drop; I'm sure it's a fine series, and I might catch it as a batch torrent later on. But if I were going to participate in the discussion, I'd have the decency to be caught up on it before opening my mouth (or at the least, prefixing my opinions with "As of Episode XX"). It just may be a testament to how much you like Blue Drop - a quick viewing of your posting history shows you only following these two threads. Based on this, the only rationale I can think of is that since Gonzo is involved in both shows, you feel BD is having some of its potential dragged down by Dragonaut. Which is also ridiculous, as Gonzo certainly has the manpower to handle more than one show at a time.

Honestly I almost prefer all the "OMG BOOBZ" posts to yours - with the former, I can just roll my eyes, while with the latter, I'm actually genuinely annoyed. Anyways, not much more to say on this matter, as I'd like to keep the thread on-topic.
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Old 2007-11-26, 13:48   Link #1009
mdauben
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One character related issue I had with the latest episode was the "deal" struck between Jin and Kazuki.

Spoiler for The Bargain:
I have to admit, this series really grabbed me with the first episode, but the sloppy plot and especially character development to date is really erroding my initial enthusiasm for the show.
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Old 2007-11-26, 19:08   Link #1010
Solace
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I could care less about the "science" of the show but the plot is just getting stupid now. The big bombshell secret had no impact because gee golly, we have nothing to care about between any of these characters (not to mention it was obvious from the first episode). Yeah it's only episode 8, but if this is how it's going to be for the rest of the show...bleh. Everything is so contrived at this point it's hard to feel anything but indifference. I couldn't even get excited about Gio once again being a badass. Sigh.

I hate to say it but I think the only character who's actually changed since the show started is Kazuki and he's gone from lame to very lame.
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Old 2007-11-26, 19:37   Link #1011
dahak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
One character related issue I had with the latest episode was the "deal" struck between Jin and Kazuki.

Spoiler for The Bargain:
Spoiler for The Bargain:
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Old 2007-11-26, 21:56   Link #1012
Kayin
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I'm more interested if Jin and Toa did some kind of natural resonance seeing that:

A - After Jin is taken in from the crash, the doctor notices a resonance (but exactly what kind is unknown)

B - Toa names herself after seeing distorted text on Ai's bracelet

C - Despite her guilt towards killing Jin's family, she seems genuinely connected to Jin, mostly in a lover's way since the series will definitely go that route

D - Jin is the only person that can hear Toa's "song" which proves they have a unique connection other then their tragic meeting at the crash.

Of course, further questions need answering. Why is the series subtitled with Resonance - it's obviously important and is probably something these dragons require in order to exist. Toa and Jin would be a natural or "true" resonance - which has nothing to do with riding Toa so far (keep your dirty thoughts to yourselves!). Toa some how has the power to give Earth-Born dragons free will, at least before they're actually "born". So far the general theory seems to be that these so called dragons are sent to other planets so they can resonance with the creatures on them and...come back home? That's obviously the big question, but so far we haven't seen any indication that the dragons were sent to earth to "conquer" it and that maybe the ISDA is jumping to conclusions about an actual threat being involved. Resonance however seems to be required if that dragons want to take on human form, whether it be Toa or the Earth-Borns.

More then likely, the first half of the season will be called Resonance with the second half having a new name. I'm only making this theory because of Vandread though, so don't quote me on it. But if this is true, you can probably guess that the resonance side of the series will deal with that issue over anything else.
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Old 2007-11-27, 01:30   Link #1013
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Spoiler for The Bargain:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-11-27, 02:53   Link #1014
UltimaWolf
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Don't know if this is the appropiate place to post this. But if anyone is bored could they make me a Toa Avie? I'd really appreciate it!

Dragonaut episode. 1
Time Frame: 21:38 - 21:40 or 21:55 - 21:58 (Basicly where Toa is smiling, you can do whichever you think is easier)
Size: 100X100
Extra: Loop and border please.

Thank you very much!
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Last edited by UltimaWolf; 2007-11-28 at 02:05.
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Old 2007-11-27, 06:43   Link #1015
KnekO
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Well I couldn't find any other place to post a request about a Dragonaut avy so here I am^_^
Spoiler for Time Frame:


thanks in advance
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Old 2007-11-27, 07:05   Link #1016
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Well, I don't mind her design... I was mainly talking about her as a character.
yea, it's funny when she's such a cute looking girl and the only one of this show who has a nice and natural body proportion, especially when compared to the randomly stitched ugly pile of metal alloys that is Frank of Argento Soma, but as a character she's just so random and unlikeable compared to the nice and kind Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouta View Post
Have you actually watched the show or did you just skim it so you could troll?

The most obvious metaphor for Resonance is soulmate. The partners look to be connected by an unspoken bond and the form and personality of the dragon looks to be influenced by the person it's bonded too. All the pairings work like that for the most part.
Err... have you actually watched the show? it's quite obvious from the first episode that Resonance is not a metaphor, it is a tentacle-rape
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Old 2007-11-27, 07:34   Link #1017
Tiamat's Disciple
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Originally Posted by dreamless View Post
Err... have you actually watched the show? it's quite obvious from the first episode that Resonance is not a metaphor, it is a tentacle-rape
Toa and Machina can resonate with me any time, preferably both together >.< *cough* did i just say that out loud

Yes, the resonance is a physical bond, but i also think it's a sort of spiritual one aswell. Hence Jin being able to hear Toa's song from the moon. But it's definatly not a metaphore, not sure it'd be tentacle rape either, from the looks of episode one it's tentacle sex, he was completely willing and eager for it. Just a thought though, Kazuki is gay!!! he had tentacle sex with Gio >.<

That would explain his emo factor going through the roof over him and Jin, it's not so much 'you stole my dragon' as in 'you stole me lover' ROFLMAO
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Old 2007-11-27, 11:18   Link #1018
Matrim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakuryu_Hikaru View Post
Her character sucks and not only hers. I picked on the most innocent thing I've found and all hell broke loose. I just wondered, why go to such trouble to have a earth exactly look alike in the moon. That costs a lot of money! If they didn't tell me it was the moon, I wouldn't know. What's the plot/narrative meaning of that? None. Then again, people go to Japan to eat at McDonalds. Yeah, spend whatever hundreds of dollars and trouble to travel for that. I gather *many* levels of non-sense out of that.

The most obvious metaphor here is resonance for sex. It's so crass. I mean riding somebody!WTF!!!! The couples are totally outrageous. A dirty old man and a prepubescent girl. Her dog and the geezer have the same name, for f***'s sakes!To me, personally, it's just creepy. And the gay ones! They insult the gay community as a whole. And that thing of Jin carry the girl and dog carrying the girl. I am scarred for life with such images. Does that mean that I have to see it *all* to say it's crap? I won't subject my psyche to more of such visual traumas, I like myself!
Welcome to my ignore list.

Quote:
First, there is the questionable issue of what Jin thought gave him the right to barter one life for another, without even asking Gio if he was willing. Obviously, he values Toa's life more that he does Gio's, but the last couple episodes had indicated that he at least cared enough for Gio to offer him a place in their nacient "family". Now he is ready to just betray him with hardly a second thought?

Even setting that aside, what lead Jin to believe that he had the ability to commit Gio to such a bargain? Certainly Gio had done nothing to indicate that he considered himself in any way under Jin's authority up to this point. Why should Jin seemingly believe that Gio will automatically do as he tells him now?
I really would like to believe that Jin was deceiving Kazuki with this deal as obviously nothing orced Gio to actually do what Jin had promised but it seems more likely that Jin had forgotten what rational thinking was...not that he has shown much rationality overall anyway.

Quote:
With that said I really hope Jin forgives her quickly and not waste 2-3 ep with that.
Er, why? I thought the problem was the characters behaving illogically and here you are asking Jin to forgive her, as if she has stolen some toy from him and not caused the death of his whole family? That sure won't be in character for him at all, he was pissed at her for simply abandoning him after all.
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Old 2007-11-27, 12:04   Link #1019
Shouta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless View Post
Err... have you actually watched the show? it's quite obvious from the first episode that Resonance is not a metaphor, it is a tentacle-rape
Mmmmm tentacles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin
Yes, the resonance is a physical bond, but i also think it's a sort of spiritual one aswell. Hence Jin being able to hear Toa's song from the moon. But it's definatly not a metaphore, not sure it'd be tentacle rape either, from the looks of episode one it's tentacle sex, he was completely willing and eager for it. Just a thought though, Kazuki is gay!!! he had tentacle sex with Gio >.<
I think he was joking.

But really, it is a metaphor or, at the very least, an allusion to a spirital connection. We know the pairs are physically bonded but we also know that they seem to share a deep emotional bond as well. That has to count for something.
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Old 2007-11-27, 13:42   Link #1020
Tiamat's Disciple
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Didnt i say they had a spiritual bond?? *looks* yup i did

And i was joking aswell :P

Though it would be an answer for why kazuki's emo factor has tripled

off topic i know, but....we have ignore lists....since when??
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