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Old 2008-04-18, 12:57   Link #481
SuperKnuckles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
As the Lord of One Word had suggested, the problems in Suiten are caused by there being "too many gods" in the area. In Shintoism, every object, living or inanimate, has a "spirit", so to speak. But these spirits are all "natural", in sharp contrast to the artificial "gods" being created at Dai Nippon Labs - living organs that had no soul, and could hardly be considered alive.

Small wonder then that the spirits in the area are running away from these creepy new "gods". The living would do the same.

From what I can tell so far, it seems that there are two factions after this research. One faction seems fascinated that the artificial life is evolving primitive intelligence and wants to explore this further by stimulating them with language. Then, we have the "Construction Workers", apparently members of some doomsday cult (which Japan seems to have a number of). I suppose the final three episodes will reveal why this faction is pursuing the research.

My guess? Perhaps they are after Miyako to "judge" these new gods, ie, to use her as their saniwa to "confirm" the existence of these new entities, and hence acquire newfound spiritual power in the process.
Very nicely put. Though I think it's very disturbing to even speculate that the government kidnaps children for research. Was that even called for as far as the logic of the situation goes? I have to wonder. But I guess it works as far as the logic of the plot goes. I still think that one part may be too connective and too convenient as far as Tarou and his sister goes. And again, the government kidnapping? That is just... ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dop View Post
I've been ruined by watching too much Minami-ke - it was obvious what was likely to happen to Tarou once the subject of 'girls and young women' came up...
Also, the guy was pretty girlish from... episode 1 at least.
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Old 2008-04-20, 12:57   Link #482
Guardian Enzo
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Hurry Shinsen, hurry!

No danger of spoiling the ending here, as I haven't seen it - just speculating. This has clearly been the best series of 2008 in my book (along with True Tears) - consistently surprising, scary, funny and blessed with incredible sound and animation design. I see landmines for the ending, though. I can rarely say I've had less idea how things are going to turn out - the plot has been so ambitious and meandering that it seems impossible any single episode could tie all the loose ends together. I also worry for Tarou, a bit. He's the center of the series, of course, but also a totally unambiguous character from a moral standpoint - he's untainted by most of the darkness and cynicism of adolescence and adulthood ("He's a kid.") and so desperate to make things right for everyone in his life that it's almost painful to watch. I'm not by any means a stickler for "happy" endings, but if things turn out badly for Tarou - as seems very likely - it would hard not to feel a bit cheated about the last 22 x 22 minutes. In a movie like "No Country For Old men" you expect a nihilistic ending - it's pretty much the central tenet of the film. For a series like this, though, there's something to be said for building up a noble-natured character like Tarou and giving him at least some reward in the finale. We shall see...

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2008-04-20 at 13:25.
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Old 2008-04-21, 01:13   Link #483
TinyRedLeaf
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^ Well...I couldn't wait, so I went ahead and watched the last episode raw.

Spoiler for Ep.22 (END):


In my opinion, Ghost Hound was easily the best show of the Winter of 2007. I'm glad I watched it. But, for a 20th Anniversary production, it's not the best of what I.G had to offer last year. For me, that would still be Seirei no Moribito.
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Old 2008-04-21, 08:16   Link #484
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dop View Post
I've been ruined by watching too much Minami-ke - it was obvious what was likely to happen to Tarou once the subject of 'girls and young women' came up...
I've not watched Minami-ke, but GH is now the third show to include a cross-dressing male that I've seen in the past few months. In only one case was that person actually homosexual. Is this the start of a new trend?

I agree with TRL that Ghost Hound is probably the best show of its season. It's certainly the best show that I've watched since Baccano! I'm also following Shion no Ou intently, but that's a more conventional story with fewer ambitions that GH.

It's truly remarkable to me how shows like this remain "beneath the radar" if you will. I rarely see it mentioned in the Suggestions thread, for instance. I'm also puzzled as to how shows by a studio as famous and well-respected as Production I.G can meet this fate. I don't pass up the opportunity to sample any show they release, yet Real Drive looks to be generating as much "buzz" here as did Ghost Hound. I've even thought about starting a "Why doesn't I.G get more love?" thread in the General Anime area.

Finally, though Tarou is the center of the show from an expository point-of-view, the most compelling male character for me has to be Makoto. He's come the farthest emotionally in this show. In some ways Makoto is a serious, dramatic version of Harima Kenji, the "bad boy" with true emotional depth that he keeps hidden from the world around him. I hope he finds a good woman to help him bring those feelings out into the light. She might be in for a rough ride at times, though, since Makoto's upbringing probably lodged some serious misogynistic feelings in his psyche.
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Old 2008-04-21, 09:52   Link #485
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
I've even thought about starting a "Why doesn't I.G get more love?" thread in the General Anime area.
I.G productions tend to be dry, so it's not surprising that its shows don't get more love. That's why I'm surprised to see the directions the studio has taken with Real Drive and Toshokan Sensou. Real Drive features an unusual amount of fan service for an I.G production, while Toshokan Sensou is decidedly more mainstream than the usual I.G sci-fi show. I have great hopes for Toshokan Sensou. I'm getting a great kick out of it, and that's just from watching it raw. Hopefully, it'll get more popular once it gets subbed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
In some ways Makoto is a serious, dramatic version of Harima Kenji, the "bad boy" with true emotional depth that he keeps hidden from the world around him. I hope he finds a good woman to help him bring those feelings out into the light. She might be in for a rough ride at times, though, since Makoto's upbringing probably lodged some serious misogynistic feelings in his psyche.
Hahaha. I suspect that Makoto is a lot sweeter than you give him credit for. At heart, I think Makoto longed for parental attention. A lot of his anger stemmed from his feelings of being abandoned, especially by his mother. It's very charming how protective he becomes once he got past that mental block.

Of course, I don't think he'd relinquish his "bad boy" image so easily, especially since that's part of what makes him so cool. But he'll let his guard down if you know which buttons to press. Masayuki is especially good at doing that.
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:37   Link #486
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Quote:
I don't pass up the opportunity to sample any show they release, yet Real Drive looks to be generating as much "buzz" here as did Ghost Hound.
Masamune Shirow, unfortunately, seems to be an acquired taste. Many people don't like his sort of sci-fi. GITS is still quite popular but within a very specific niche audience, and I expect Real Drive to stay the same. It's a shame, really, but there's not much to be done about it.

By the way, Seiji, if you like Production I.G., take a look at GITS Stand Alone Complex (especially the second season), the best series I've seen from them
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Old 2008-04-23, 01:42   Link #487
cicero
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Ep 22 subs out! No spoiler summary from me, as it's late and others do it so much better.
To me, the episode seemed a little rushed, and they let some plot threads dangle:
Spoiler for Comments:


Overall, though, this show was awesome. Yeah, it was relatively slow and didn't have much fan service, but I don't see why that makes people not watch it...(that's a rhetorical line).
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Old 2008-04-23, 01:45   Link #488
metronome
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finally it is subbed, let's talk about it.
it has a lot of unanswered questions......
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Old 2008-04-23, 03:53   Link #489
SuperKnuckles
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Pretty decent episode even if nothing really seemed to make much sense.

Also, for all the gloom, doom and dourness of the whole show, the final ep felt.. happy? That didn't feel consistent. Still one of the better shows from the carryover of last winter.
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Old 2008-04-23, 06:38   Link #490
Shiroth
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Last episode of Ghost Hound was satisfiying, though i easily could have have gone for a few more episodes. It is a shame that we didn't get more crazy madness towards the end, though i'm happy with the 'end' story they brought into the series a few episodes back.

Everyone's happy, the end.

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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Pretty decent episode even if nothing really seemed to make much sense.
There were those little parts that didn't make sense, though in the end i'm kinda glad.
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Old 2008-04-23, 14:56   Link #491
turbore
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Well, i'm picky, show eventually disappointed me. First 3 episodes grabbed me by my neck and didn't let go. Then they introduced flying monkeys and ripped off that mystifying atmosphere (reminded me of twin peaks somehow). Putting tons of scientific theories saturated the show with unimportant information. In the end people could explain what happened easily without this knowledge.
Happy end? we're not our parents, so we will stay friends forever? I had a similar feeling watching Last Exile - saying that old phrase "...and they ALL lived happy ever after".
tsk, oh well. Some prefer character development with smartly explained superficial mysticism, and some prefer just watching and enjoying it raw, unexplained. Lain's way better, IMHO.
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Old 2008-04-23, 15:23   Link #492
toshirodragon
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Thumbs down Dont Get Sucked Into This One! You Will Be Disappointed!

Am I watching the same anime as you all?

The one with WHOLE episodes missing? I mean WTF? one ep ends with a character being attacked by spirit bodies and the next starts with his buddy flying in pyjamas and NO answer to how Masayuki got away from the spirits. Now I see 21 ends with plans to save Miyako and 22 starts with boys in the dam saving biooids.

I feel fricking cheated with this piece of garbage. it WAS a great anime up til about ep 15 when they started cutting things out.

Last edited by toshirodragon; 2008-04-23 at 15:28. Reason: fixing spelling
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Old 2008-04-23, 15:27   Link #493
CJL13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshirodragon View Post
Am I watching the same anime as you all?

The one with WHOLE episodes missing? I mean WTF? one ep ends with a character being attacked by spirit bodies and the next starts with his buddy flying in pyjamas and NO answer to how Masayuki got away from the spirits. Now I see 21 ends with plans to save Miyako and 22 starts with boys in the dam saving bioids.

I feel fricking cheated with this piece of garbage. it WAS a great anime up til about ep 15 when they started cutting things out.
They did explain the plan and carried out, just not right away.

As for the ending, it seemed too convient, pretty much everything is resolved in 5 minutes. By the way...

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-23, 16:15   Link #494
Dop
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Originally Posted by CJL13 View Post
Spoiler:
Oh yes. That's exactly what I was thinking of.

So. a final view. Well, I liked this series. It was flawed, the earliest flaw being the 'casper the friendly ghost'-like spirit forms seen early in the series which completely destroyed the atmosphere of the episode in which they first appeared.
I also think that it could really have done with a few more episodes, as towards the end it all seemed a tad rushed, like they were struggling to fit the material into the remaining time allotted.

Yes. it left a few things hanging, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it does leave you something to think about.

I did like the ending though.

So, while I think it did have a few problems, I still found it to be an excellent series, and one I'd definitely buy if it gets licensed.

Thanks to the subbers for bringing this out and sticking with it.
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Old 2008-04-23, 16:26   Link #495
Vanehei
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its weird, i enjoy this anime very much! Taoru its adorable but......
I just didnt understand anything!!!!!!!! hahaha i get a WTF face in the end.
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Old 2008-04-23, 16:54   Link #496
toshirodragon
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Well I must admit the end was MUCH better than I expected going into episode 22. I don't mind loose ends but I really hate sloppy editing and the end of this anime was pretty badly edited.
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Old 2008-04-24, 01:45   Link #497
WanderingKnight
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The show had two awesome things.

The first one was general direction and production values.
The second one was the extremely well handled sound direction.

And it has a huge flaw. The story, in my mind, gave a lot of way to dig more psychologically and philosophically into the different themes the series covered, as Shirow's got us accustomed to, but somehow they ignored those things big time. The various references to psychiatric medicine, the concept of twisting reality with one's thoughts, the implications of mankind playing God... all those things were presented merely on the surface, and weren't really explored when you think about it. Plus, it's got all those horrible plotholes (What the hell was Miyako, and what was up with her sudden changes in mood? Why did they conveniently wrap Tarou's issue with her missing sister in a single line when they devoted entire episodes to explore his conflict? What the hell was up with Masayuki senior and junior in the resolution of their family issues? Why the hell was everyone suddenly able to see the Shinrei?). I feel the only character they thoroughly explored and effectively gave resolution to was Makoto, which is something not very nice to say about a series with 5+ important characters.

In the end, I would recommend people to view this, if only for the sensory experience it represents, but I would warn them against taking the series itself too seriously.
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Old 2008-04-24, 01:50   Link #498
SuperKnuckles
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Maybe the plot didn't have too much going for it because Shirow Masaume sometimes tends to drift more into philosophy than hardcore exposition. You see that in all of his stories no matter how popular or better coordinated like the Ghost in the Shell stories.

But really, it felt like the writers were just lost. Either take it to a spiritual tale (didn't happen), take it to the supernatural (only teased. Never happened. What happened to those insanely creepy ghosts? Those had SO much potential. They were genuinely creepy. That's extremely rare in anime), or take it political (never quite happened either. So the typhoon laid a big mudslide to the Ogami household. That was the most convenient thing of all).

And the whole dragon god thing could've turned the whole town upside down, but those damn Turkey/Chicken/Human thinggies just wrapped it up and went away. Lame.
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Old 2008-04-24, 09:31   Link #499
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I had a wtf moment when I saw the Omori-Masayuki too. I wonder if something will happen after the show with that.

Makoto's mother is so freaking creepy, and so psychologically twisted (ie. "If he had not met me, maybe he would have left the world even earlier." - by the way anyone has any thought on that?), that I am not sure if it's a good thing that she survived (and he has to take care of her).

The final episode was okay but not great, it was a bit rushed. Wished they would stretch out the ending by an episode or two. I thought the Bio-lab conclusion was quite unsatisfying.

Tarou and Miyako were quite wwwww though in the last episode. I have to admit. :3
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Old 2008-04-24, 09:54   Link #500
SeijiSensei
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I'm starting to think that any series with an unusual number of episodes like this one have had some episodes dropped along the way. I found the discontinuities that toshirodragon mentions pretty annoying as well. When GH ended I was left feeling that there were at least two entire episodes lying on the cutting-room floor. Considering that I thought this was one of the better series I've watched in the past six months or so, I was quite disappointed by how rushed things became in the final stretch.

I'd also have to say I expected a better explanation about the mesh between brain science and mysticism than we got. As far as I can tell, the answer was that people playing God make weird things happen in the neighborhood.

There were a lot of things I liked about this show -- characters like Makoto and Miyako, the artwork, the sound track, all of that was of a higher-than-average quality. It's just too bad that the plot didn't hang together better. Ghost Hound showed a lot of promise, but like SuperKnuckles says, sometimes it just felt like the writers were lost.

I'd contrast this show with Dennou Coil which also had a lot of science-fiction linked to mysticism aspects. I felt its story was better resolved than Ghost Hound's, but Dennou Coil had the full 26 weeks to work things out. If they had compressed that show to 22 episodes, it might have suffered the same fate as Ghost Hound.
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