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Old 2008-04-24, 10:33   Link #501
toshirodragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
When GH ended I was left feeling that there were at least two entire episodes lying on the cutting-room floor.

That's my feeling EXACTLY, my viewing buddy Teph thinks maybe it was originally slated for 26 episodes and got cut down to 22.

I think they tried to mash too much into the story. It needed to be either a supernatural story or a science-out-of-control story, but trying to mix both in there only muddied the waters and prevented any really satisfying ending.
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Old 2008-04-24, 10:44   Link #502
WanderingKnight
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Either way, it was announced as 22 episodes since the very beginning.

Lots of series also end with 24 episodes and are still nicely resolved. 24 is as much of a standard as 26.

I also think that Ergo Proxy should have had an extra episode though (23 total).
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:06   Link #503
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ori View Post
...Makoto's mother is so freaking creepy, and so psychologically twisted (ie. "If he had not met me, maybe he would have left the world even earlier." - by the way anyone has any thought on that?), that I am not sure if it's a good thing that she survived (and he has to take care of her). The final episode was okay but not great, it was a bit rushed. Wished they would stretch out the ending by an episode or two. I thought the Bio-lab conclusion was quite unsatisfying. Tarou and Miyako were quite wwwww though in the last episode. I have to admit. :3
Makoto's mother was just as interesting a character as Makoto himself. I suspect she's wrong about her friend dying earlier if he hadn't met her. Tragic romance. She is a fascinating but deeply dangerous character. I hope that she and her dangerous son will end up somehow rescuing each other by their mutual dependency. But I think it's more likely that she will do away with herself in the near future.

I'm afraid I thought that 22 episodes was enough, but that they dragged out some earlier episodes, so that this last bit seemed rushed. But anything to get us to Tarou/Miyako. Forgetting about minute calculations of age differential, they were wonderful with and for each other.

There was a lot of good voice-acting in this show. Tarou (young Ono Kenshou) was good. Miyako (Yajima Akiko) was great, and so was Makoto (Hoshi Souichirou). And I thought Masayuki was one of Fukuyama Jun's better creations. I also liked the odd voice used by the psychologist, who I think was played by Fujita Yoshinori (Kaoru in Ouran, Masumi in Nodame Cantabile).
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:41   Link #504
NoSanninWa
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This was not a great show. It had some wonderful exposition and I enjoyed many of the themes that were presented, but it completely failed as a coherent show. If you doubt this, then please tell try to tell me what it was about. I cannot tell anyone what this show about in a couple of sentences. Try it.

Ghost Hound was about a boy who discoveres the ability to travel out of his body? Heck, no. About the development of evolution in the spiritual world? Closer, but still way off and much too abstract. The blossoming relationship between a shamanistic girl and a OOB boy? Heck no, the relationship was only a minor element. An excuse for the writer to talk about abstract philosophical, physical and psychological principles? True enough, but that isn't really a plot at all.

The story just meanders all over the place without any single purpose to unify it. The result is that there isn't really a story, just a number of events in a chronology. It's as plotless as real life, without the elements that make for good slice-of-life anime. I learned a lot of interesting things while watching this show, but it fails as a story.
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:56   Link #505
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
This was not a great show. It had some wonderful exposition and I enjoyed many of the themes that were presented, but it completely failed as a coherent show....
Much as I enjoyed watching the show, I agree with this. Except that what I enjoyed were the characters, more than anything. But the story did feel incoherent.
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Old 2008-04-24, 20:03   Link #506
TinyRedLeaf
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Oh my goodness, look at the hate. And SeijiSensei wondered why nobody likes Production I.G shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
This was not a great show. It had some wonderful exposition and I enjoyed many of the themes that were presented, but it completely failed as a coherent show. If you doubt this, then please tell try to tell me what it was about.
I agree, the story wasn't actually that good in Ghost Hound, although when I put things in perspective, none of the shows I've watched during the winter season ended perfectly. True Tears was the only one that came close, but even then I could find stuff to nitpick. There must be something particularly challenging about storyboarding an anime (perhaps due to time pressures) that very few studios seem to do it well. Either that, or every studio lacks a director or editor with a good enough grasp of an entire story in order to tell it coherently.

In Production I.G's case, I believe Kaoru Chujo described it best - the studio often gets carried away with its philosophical/sci-fi concepts and often forgets about the requirements of a good story in the process. This is especially noticeable when it comes to Masamune Shirow collaborations. Coherency is often the first thing that flies out of the window in his manga, let alone anime associated with him.

That said, I enjoyed Ghost Hound tremendously, the same way I do for many I.G productions. I like how I.G regularly tries to push the boundaries of anime sci-fi, as intelligently as it can. There is a consistent logic behind the various themes introduced in Ghost Hound. In terms of presentation and organisation, its story is not as "messy" as some novels I've read, but that said, I'll agree that summarising its main ideas would be a tough challenge.

My major disappointments come from the way they've resolved the loose ends in the story. Masayuki's parents reconciled far too easily, and I do wonder what's the point of having his mother around since she contributed nothing to the overall story. The happily-ever-after, "we'll stay as friends" ending was a bit too pat. It was the inevitable ending, but it seems clear that they ran out of time to develop it more satisfactorily.

In the end though, the production values such as animation, art and especially the music, more than make up for these weaknesses. Unlike others, I don't feel that the "bubble boys" ruined the mood of the show, at least not in the same way that Elfen Lied ruined itself by mixing cuteness with gore, for example. Taken as a whole, in spite of its obvious flaws, Ghost Hound remains the best show I've watched last winter.

Looking ahead, I harbour suspicions that Real Drive is heading in the same direction as Ghost Hound. It looks great (buxom chicks!), sounds intelligent, but story-wise, I suspect it's going to be a mess. I call it the Shirow Factor, lol. Meanwhile, I'll take the opportunity to pimp Toshokan Sensou once again. Lots of giggly, fluffy fun with a serious moral behind it. Go watch it! Please? (Because that would hopefully persuade more fansub groups to work on it. )

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-04-25 at 10:47. Reason: typos
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Old 2008-04-24, 23:02   Link #507
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Oh my goodness, look at the hate. And SeijiSensei wondered why nobody likes Production I.G shows.
Hey, I like a lot of I.G. shows, it's one of my favorite studios, but it's just that this series had a lot of weak points, and it was somewhat missing a general direction. It never became anything of what it attempted to be. That's why it left a taste of emptiness in my mouth. I would have loved it to run for two seasons, since I'm sure they would have been able to cover all the stuff they attempted to do easily with that time frame.
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Old 2008-04-25, 04:59   Link #508
turbore
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Well, as they say, there is just one step from love to hate
I believe, the one to blame for Ghosthound's diminishing power is this fella, who jinxed it
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Old 2008-04-25, 08:05   Link #509
SuperKnuckles
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With all its fault, I do think the show came VERY close to being a great show. At the least, it's a very good show IMO. It has the suspense and GREAT writing, even if the endgame didn't live up to the hype. At least the suspense part alone is concerned, no other anime made my pulse racing with a mix of mystery and terror at the same time. Again, SO much potential if the show took a conventional 'boys gets into creepy ghost stories' path. Even if conventional, at least it'd make good use of the creepiness.

As for Denno Coil, even that show felt a bit hurried in the end, and this show, even more so. That says a lot.
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Old 2008-04-26, 22:08   Link #510
Guardian Enzo
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"Great" is so subjective, of course - not only in that everyone's tastes are different, but their thresholds too. Are we grading on a curve? Is it an absolute measure?

Maybe we each have our own valid definition. For me, Ghost Hound was a great show. Flawed, yes, but there is no - and I repeat no - series in the history of anime I wouldn't say that about. FLCL probably came the closest to breaking the string - it was short, and came pretty damn close to achieving everything it set out to - but even there, a few things didn't work. GH was great enough for me, in spite of the occasionally too obtuse and layered plot points and somewhat rushed finale. Sound design was the equal of any series I've seen, character design and background animation were spectacular, even by IG's own Valhallan standards. Most importantly, it wove a compelling story around memorable and believable characters - Makoto, who grew so much during the course of the series. Masayuki, who turned out to be more than the caricature he appeared to at the beginning. The supporting characters were superbly drawn, from the parents to the Machiavellian psychiatrists. Even Michio showed depth after appearing to be an afterthought at first. And most of all, Miyako and especially Tarou - wonderful on their own and especially together. Tarou was a compelling and original voice at the center of the maelstrom - a mix of innocence and deeply-ingrained pain, a swirl of conflicted emotions that were complex beyond his comprehension at a time he craved simplicity more than anything.

And what of the ending itself? It did appear rushed, I admit, but remarkably it did manage to tie up most of the loose ends in a coherent and plausible way (by the rules of the series' internal mythology, anyway). By God, it was that rarest of rarities - an unabashed and unapologetic happy ending! The shock of such a thing was jarring, at first, but in the end it felt right for the characters and their journeys - especially kawaii Tarou. Nobody ever deserved a happy ending more than he and Miyako, and if the age difference still makes a relationship seem unlikely, he's so childlike and she so precocious that they seem fated to be together. And her father could hardly disapprove, given that little Tarou saved his daughter from the cult he more or less handed her over to. In light of the thoroughly upbeat tone of the finale, I choose to be optimistic.
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Old 2008-05-05, 10:08   Link #511
vspirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I'm not sure if it has been posted before, but I have found a photo of the main cast and staff (click to enlarge):



The two at the back left are the writer, Chiaki J. Konaka, and the director, Nakamura Ryuutarou. The two at the right are unidentified. The front row, left to right, is Houshi Souichirou, Ono Kenshou, Yajima Akiko, and Fukuyama Jun.
o.O; Fukuyama-han has weird tastes in footwear...but he does seem as quirky as the character he voices. xD
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Old 2008-05-11, 10:05   Link #512
sorrowsiren
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Someone early in this thread said they hadn't seen ghost in the shell.... I'm going to hope that was a stupid joke... Otherwise I think my head may explode...
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Old 2008-05-13, 13:33   Link #513
KeroKai
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I love this show!
It's weird. I wouldn't call this a brilliant show, but at the same time it's awesome as it caters to a specific audience.

I agree that it's not cohrent. Why would it be? Half the concepts behind this series are purely unknown. I got a headache trying to find meaning and connection behind each episode and how the themes were interconnected.

Then I realise that I should just take the series for what it offers, a cauldron of metaphysical ideas. A mixture of paranormal, psychology and neurology idea explained via a storyline of multiple families.

Basically one that is interested in the supernatural will love this show.
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Old 2008-05-14, 05:05   Link #514
SuperKnuckles
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In a way, they did sort of tie it saying that genetic sciences and everything we know and perceive is based around an innate order of the universe in which the spirits are also a part of. But they didn't exactly get around to exactly how that happens.

Also, the disappointment with its complexity is mostly because it felt rather incomplete. The show could use another 20+ episodes and it'd still only scratch the surface of the mystery. It was the same with Shigofumi, which also had an incomplete ending and too many mysteries.

In the end though, I loved both shows for their complexity and mystery. It's just that it feels like unfulfilled promises. Same with X-files actually.
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Old 2008-05-14, 10:10   Link #515
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
In a way, they did sort of tie it saying that genetic sciences and everything we know and perceive is based around an innate order of the universe in which the spirits are also a part of.
Actually, quite the opposite. Throughout the show, Ghost Hound consistently suggested that reality is what we choose to make of it. You see it in the form of the Lord of One Word, in the form of Snark's "alternate" reality, in the form of the bio-oids created in Dai Nippon Labs, in the boys' astral forms, and so on. In each case, reality conforms to the will of the observer.

The "innate order" is, in this sense, an illusion of the mind. Hence the heavy exploration of various psychiatric/psychological phenomena. The entire series is an oblique exploration of whether spirits exist because they do, or because we human beings willed them into existence. For example, Prof Komagusu explained in one episode how human activity stimulated the development of spirits around Tokyo. Rather than being two separate worlds, he implied that Kakuriyo ("Hidden World") and Utsushiyo ("Living World") share a symbiotic relationship, where one affects the other.

That may partly explain why Dr Hirata's brain was literally changed by the events in Suiten. The spirits were gathering around the town, drawn by the bio-oids in Dai Nippon Labs and by Miyako's summoning. Inevitably, these events caused psychic ripples that reverberated into the living world.

Either that, or there is something wrong with the town's water. Yup, that's right - the water. I suspect the writers were trying to develop an idea there, but it did not turn out quite right. In conclusion, Ghost Hound's biggest apparent flaw is its abrubt ending. Like everyone has observed, there was probably a lot more material to explore, but unfortunately, the producers ran out of time and probably made do with a sloppy ending.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-05-14 at 12:47. Reason: typo errors
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Old 2008-05-14, 18:33   Link #516
KeroKai
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I'm always amazed by the ability of people here to analyse the show so indepth. What do you personally feel should have been explained and explored more since I'm sure Ghost Hound could have gone on for an extremly long time with it's materials.

For me... the things I didn't understand in this show.

- The view of the brain synapse connected to the ghost world, and the explanation that it was Taro's mind. What's going on?

It's weird because that seem to suggest to me that the world was completely created by Taro's mind. Yet they play with the idea that Taro is a seperate entity with his own guardian self.
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Old 2008-05-14, 20:44   Link #517
TinyRedLeaf
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Personally, I feel most of the themes were already very well explored. In that sense, Ghost Hound is about the right length. On the other hand, it's very clear that some characters needed more development time. Masayuki's family problems would be the first thing that needs more attention, in my opinion. I don't like how it turned out happily in the end based on a duex ex machina. We could also use more insight on Masayuki's apparent attraction to Dr Otori. It's probably a form of Oedipus Complex, but the writers failed to develop the idea properly.

Taro's resolution was also too abrubt. We never quite understand how he realised he wasn't "talking" to his sister inside his head. We also don't know why he felt it was no longer important to "hear" her last words. And what happened to his mother? Did she really lose her mind, or did she see her daughter? We can only guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKai
The view of the brain synapse connected to the ghost world, and the explanation that it was Taro's mind. What's going on?

It's weird because that seem to suggest to me that the world was completely created by Taro's mind. Yet they play with the idea that Taro is a seperate entity with his own guardian self.
Taro is very, very far from being another Haruhi.

I think it's a combination of both. The world exists both inside and outside Taro's mind. Hence the discussion on implicate order. The underlying idea is that every individual is part of a larger whole. At the same time, every person is also a universe within himself. Taro discovered new worlds within his own mind, and he could sometimes affect those worlds as though he were having a lucid dream.

To put it another way, Ghost Hound suggests that there are several layers of consciousness. We are only aware of a few. Do things exist because we are aware of them? Or do they exist regardless whether we can experience them?

With regard to brain synapses, it's interesting to wonder whether we truly "see" what we think we see. It is possible, for example, to have hallucinations that seem frighteningly real. This is a pet topic for many natural philosophers, by the way. It's a variant of Chuang Tzu's famous butterfly dream. Does reality exist? Or are we butterflies that merely dream we exist?
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Old 2008-07-25, 18:29   Link #518
qtipbrit
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I'm going to revive this because I've been mulling over a lot since I watched the series.
First off, I agree with NoSanninWa. The idea was great, but the presentation was off. They threw a lot of psychological terminology at you, but only a fraction of it was relevant to the main story's plot and progression, and only a fraction of the rest was thought-provoking enough.
Existence and perception have been tackled before, (Lain handled this much better then Ghost Hound did with less distraction and more actual content). I guess I was expecting more from the series based on what I'd heard and what I know about the persons involved. The majority of the ideas brought up were elementary and had been covered several times before, and there was really nothing revolutionary.
However, the fact that it wasn't able handle its ideas as well as it wanted would mean that it focused more on plot, right?
True to some extent. The mystery wasn't the most compelling, and its conclusion wasn't the most fulfilling or original, but it was there.
Were this thread to have the ratings poll, it would probably scrape by with a low 7/10 with its production values being the deciding factor.
Definitely worth the watch if you're into sci-fi, and still worth it if you're not, but I wouldn't be too expectant of something groundbreaking.
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Old 2008-07-26, 05:19   Link #519
SuperKnuckles
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I thought Lain was good, but that anime was more steeped in technobabble and just slow storytelling. The shame in Ghost Hound was that it had all the interesting characters, backstory and possibly one of the creepiest directions I've ever seen in anime, and yet the central plot remained TOTALLY mysterious. And for some reason, everybody comes around and gets a nonsensical happy ending. Not that I dislike happy endings, but not when it comes about like a pure deus ex.
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Old 2008-11-16, 07:46   Link #520
Bathory Area
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This series is very underrated.Ghost Hound is a really bizarre mix of Higurashi and Dennou Coil.I was afraid I wouldn't like this this series too much , but it looks way more interesting since the begining. The 3 principal characters look great (the typical trio: the hiperactive and funny, the careless and calmed one and the main character, the most ignorant and curious one). Those out-of-body-experience dreams the main character have are really great (and really good animated), and there are already enigmas from the first episode. A mixing of animation, peaceful and relaxing sequences and atmosphere, with a bit of horror and slice of life .
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