AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 01 Rating
Perfect 10 49 28.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 40 23.53%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 45 26.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 21 12.35%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 4.12%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 1.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.18%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.18%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.59%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-04-04, 08:45   Link #301
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nadare View Post
I thought a lot of people knew why they choose close combat mages or physical damage mages(Tiana's gun has a shotgun bullet) over pure magic power types. So only few people actually read the manga of nanoha?

because I think that they(Nanoha and co.) would choose more experienced mages(physical types are rare) over rank B and C mages.
Yes, but perhaps you didn't notice the flashy colourful lights flying around during the entire episode?

Even if they're considered 'close quarter', even if they're using bullets... They STILL REQUIRE MAGIC to power their weapons.


EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane
So long as the "final boss" doesn't become a whorefest of target-practice galore. I kid, I kid... sort of.
My guess (Again) ?

"Okay, you take the skinny one, and you guys get the fat one, the others go after the bald one and the rest of you follow me... Whoever's still standing afterward will meet up in the lobby to take down the big guy!"

Shounen-style!

Quote:
Actually, amongst the old guard, I am looking forward to Hayate's style the most. We already know more or less what Nanoha and Fate's fighting style is like, but Hayate is still relatively unknown. Tri-Beam Ragnarok Breaker aside.
Hayate looks long range, but she calls herself a knight... And in the 5-man team battle from post A's, Chrono suspected that their 'forward' team would consist of Hayate as well...


Quote:
Still entertaining the thought that Hayate's Unison-Transformation will be a parody of all those small robots merging to form a big robot shows.
...The hell?! Lol!
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 09:06   Link #302
nadare
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Send a message via MSN to nadare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yes, but perhaps you didn't notice the flashy colourful lights flying around during the entire episode?

Even if they're considered 'close quarter', even if they're using bullets... They STILL REQUIRE MAGIC to power their weapons.
Yes they do use magic to power up their weapons. But, still they did mix magic + physical on their attacks. Sorry, I cant explain further since It'll mean spoiling what their enemies are and Fate's proposal which were all explained in the manga. I don't want to get warned again because of spoilers xD.

EDIT:

Minor manga spoilers or what we just call hints.

Spoiler:
nadare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 09:08   Link #303
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Then again, Subaru in the same ep actually managed to take down most of the drones with just kicks and punches. Even if she used magic to boost her attacks, judging from her performance her martial arts skills are quite considerable.
__________________

On Perspective: "Depending on who you talk to, twintails are either ponytails multiplied by two, or divided by two.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 09:29   Link #304
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
@nadare
Yes, I know all about the AMF, and I believe 80% of the people here do as well. You say they did a 'mix magic + physical on their attacks', the magic boosted the physical attacks, right? So what would happen when they enter an AMF field?

Would they lose the magical boost?

What Nanoha did was to take a bunch of rocks and toss it at them. Different from what Subaru did.

@LoweGear
Remember, those were training drones, I doubt warmachines would be taken down just as easily...
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 09:41   Link #305
Aaron008R
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Then would Subaru's Revolver Stake (Punch actually.) work inside AMF area of effect? Perhaps firing off magical cartiridges inside AMFs would still produce even just a small boost of needed power.
If I remember correctly, Signum and Vita had little difficulty in beating the AMF drones in the manga.
Aaron008R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:08   Link #306
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Then would Subaru's Revolver Stake (Punch actually.) work inside AMF area of effect? Perhaps firing off magical cartiridges inside AMFs would still produce even just a small boost of needed power.
I've just thought about it.

Assuming devices that run on magic could still work in an AMF, then maybe it could still retain it's power boost from cartiridges.

But you'll still have the problem of getting really up close to do it point blank.

Quote:
If I remember correctly, Signum and Vita had little difficulty in beating the AMF drones in the manga.
Yeah, but we have not idea which techique they used. But if I'm right, and that AMF doesn't affect devices, then it'll be pretty easy for them to do what they've always been doing...

Come to think of it, what do you think are the abilities that each characters have to counter AMFs ?
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:12   Link #307
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Then would Subaru's Revolver Stake (Punch actually.) work inside AMF area of effect? Perhaps firing off magical cartiridges inside AMFs would still produce even just a small boost of needed power.
If I remember correctly, Signum and Vita had little difficulty in beating the AMF drones in the manga.
Spoiler for thoughts on AMF:

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:16   Link #308
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Spoiler for thoughts on AMF:

Cheers.
Call me slow, but until recently, I couldn't shake off the thought that AMF is like EMP, any magic base 'thingy' that enters stop functioning...
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:16   Link #309
Deathkillz
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk, England
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Deathkillz
i actually managed to catch the first ep (thankgod for youtube and net cafes XD)

missing out on whats been said so far Subaru and tea(?) kicked ass! great skills but little fate screen tme >.< (time to go noes~)
__________________

Siggy: hohohohoho~ | AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ | Summer2009 early review
Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS
Deathkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:28   Link #310
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Call me slow, but until recently, I couldn't shake off the thought that AMF is like EMP, any magic base 'thingy' that enters stop functioning...
Law of Inertia.
Spoiler for further elaboration:

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:30   Link #311
Loner
Lurking In the Darknes...
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The 97th Non-Administered World
From reading the manga, my take on the AMF is that it's a field that is a destructive interference effect designed to work against the specific type of energy a mage's Linker Core produces. That means that magical energy entering the field gets "broken down" when it interacts with the AMF. That's why Fate's Lightning Fall worked, because natural electricity is a different type of energy than LC energy.

edit: Think of it this way. A Mid-type mage's magical attack is, essentially, a ball of magical energy that the mage is shaping into a specific shape and pattern - for an analogy, think of a sine wave. By adding itself to that energy, an AMF makes it impossible to keep the "sine wave" constant in amplitude and frequency, thus making the energy of the ball disperse since it can't hold a shape anymore.

Now, Subaru's devices use magical energy, but except for her Divine Buster, they use it INTERNALLY. The energy from her Linker Core goes from her body straight into the devices through her skin, and the cartridge system is inside the device. That means her devices' exterior shells and her Barrier Jacket should be designed to provide shielding against external energy (note how Subaru deflected the fire from the drones with Revolver Knuckle in episode 1), and an AMF is just that - a field of energy. So when she hits something, even if it's a magically boosted attack, the energy she's producing will only be outside of her shielding in the few millimeters between her fist and the target. The interference won't have time to interact with her magical energy in that brief moment very much, thus the power of her attack will only be reduced by a few percent before it hits. So I can see how the Trio would pick her if they are trying to invent a team that can fight in an AMF.

Tia's device, on the other hand, obviously should have great problems working inside an AMF. But Tia is also strong in the areas that Subaru is weak - mid- and long-range combat - so she was probably chosen to support Subaru so Subaru can get into melee range. Remember, any opponent with half a brain won't just say, "I've got an AMF - there's no need for any other weapon! I am INVINCIBLE!!" (Well, in most other anime they ARE, but let's hope MLNS won't fall into that cliche.) In summary, I see Subaru doing most of the fighting inside an AMF, with Tia being her covering fire and support against anything the enemy has set up between Subaru and whatever has the AMF. (At least, until Subaru destroys everything that is generating AMFs, and then everyone can cut loose. The AMF generators should, of course, be at the top of the target priority list.)

Last edited by Loner; 2007-04-04 at 10:48.
Loner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:41   Link #312
Loner
Lurking In the Darknes...
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The 97th Non-Administered World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Call me slow, but until recently, I couldn't shake off the thought that AMF is like EMP, any magic base 'thingy' that enters stop functioning...
Nope. An Electromagnetic pulse is a single, instantaneous burst of energy that's supposed to burn out a device by dumping more electrical energy into it than it can handle. Once that instant is over, any electrical device (that's not broken) can work fine in the area. So it attacks the DEVICE itself, not the energy the device uses/produces.

By contrast, the way they've depicted AMF is more like what happens if you try to listen to an AM radio while standing next to an electric pole. The radio ITSELF is working, but the radio waves can't get to it in any coherent form because the electromagnetic field being constantly generated by the power line is combining with the radio wave (which is, itself, and e-m wave) and the resulting wave that gets to the radio is an indecipherable mess.
Loner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 10:58   Link #313
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
And in other news today, I officially suck at termiology for physics, and spelling too, for future reference.

(Moving on...)

So we more or less get how (we think) the AMF works, but what has our band of heroes done to counter it? To answer my own question, only a few of them have spells that'll work against AMF.

Nanoha - Basically she throws big rocks at them
Fate - ANY of her lightning-base attacks
Subaru - Probably just punch it really hard
Elio - Same as Fate, lightning-base attacks
Vita - Size-shifting Hammer
Signum - Fire-base attacks as well as strong melee
Ginga - Same as Subaru, punch really hard
Chrono - Frost-base attacks
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:03   Link #314
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ View Post
But in the pre-StrikerS manga, when Subaru me Teana she said she was 13, and Teana 14

....Is there somekind of mix up anywhere?
Reread Chap.04
Spoiler for Chap.04:

The anime timeline is April 75, 4 years after the events of the airport incident. Meaning, it took Subaru about 3 years to reach her B-Ranking exam.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:07   Link #315
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
You're forgetting Caro - she can just summon a few of her creatures to do her bidding (if she can summon powerful enough creatures that is ^^;; ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner
By contrast, the way they've depicted AMF is more like what happens if you try to listen to an AM radio while standing next to an electric pole. The radio ITSELF is working, but the radio waves can't get to it in any coherent form because the electromagnetic field being constantly generated by the power line is combining with the radio wave (which is, itself, and e-m wave) and the resulting wave that gets to the radio is an indecipherable mess.
Agree with this analysis of the AMF, since in the manga, they do say that "Magic is hard to focus", which would imply that their magic still works, but the AMF basically messes up the magic concentration inside the field, making it useless.

If that is the case, then all they need to do is create some sort of device shielding to protect their devices (and themselves). Unfortunately, with Fate's solution being to form a magic-independent anti AMF force, it would seem that, as is the case with EMP, such kinds of shielding would be either incredibly bulky, or incredibly cost-prohibitive to be of any practical use.
__________________

On Perspective: "Depending on who you talk to, twintails are either ponytails multiplied by two, or divided by two.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:13   Link #316
Loner
Lurking In the Darknes...
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The 97th Non-Administered World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And in other news today, I officially suck at termiology for physics, and spelling too, for future reference.
Sorry - I went into lecture mode a bit there. (It's been a while since I had a chance to use that Masters Degree in Physics. )

Quote:
So we more or less get how (we think) the AMF works, but what has our band of heroes done to counter it? To answer my own question, only a few of them have spells that'll work against AMF.

Nanoha - Basically she throws big rocks at them
Fate - ANY of her lightning-base attacks
Subaru - Probably just punch it really hard
Elio - Same as Fate, lightning-base attacks
Vita - Size-shifting Hammer
Signum - Fire-base attacks as well as strong melee
Ginga - Same as Subaru, punch really hard
Chrono - Frost-base attacks
The front-liners of the Volkenritter (Signum, Vita and Zafira) would fall into the same category as Subaru, using their magic within their shielded weapons and going all melee. Vita's distance attack, Swallow Flier, would still work because it's taking non-magical metal balls and using her magic to accelerate them. When they hit the AMF, the magic would be lost but the metal balls still have momentum - Bullet, meet target. Target, bullet. Play nice, now...

Fate won't have it that easy. Fate's attacks from the first two seasons aren't really lightning; they're her magic shaped into an lightning-like form, but it's still magical energy from her Linker Core. That's why, against those drones, she came up with Lightning Fall, which uses her magic indirectly to cause a real lightning storm in the natural weather around her.
Loner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:14   Link #317
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
I am still holding on to the thought that Caro is going to be the most powerful out of the four new kids. Logic be damned.

Natch.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:16   Link #318
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
You're forgetting Caro - she can just summon a few of her creatures to do her bidding (if she can summon powerful enough creatures that is ^^;; ).
Funny you should mention her , doesn't she have a frost dragon (I would call it more of a whelp) ? What are the odds of her and Chrono having the same elemental base attacks ? (edit: hint - VA)

Quote:
If that is the case, then all they need to do is create some sort of device shielding to protect their devices (and themselves). Unfortunately, with Fate's solution being to form a magic-independent anti AMF force, it would seem that, as is the case with EMP, such kinds of shielding would be either incredibly bulky, or incredibly cost-prohibitive to be of any practical use.
Or perhaps it wasn't a field that was commonly researched, so the enforcers would just have to tough it out for the moment...

...Until they create a AMF canceller! (That sounds familiar...)

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner
Sorry - I went into lecture mode a bit there. (It's been a while since I had a chance to use that Masters Degree in Physics. )
Don't worry, I would've done the same

@Skane
But if you apply anime logic, it IS possible that the sweet, innocent girl would always be the most powerful...

... Look at Hayate!! (Okay, maybe not the innocent part...)
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:40   Link #319
LoweGear
Device Meister
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
There's one other possibility for Subaru I've yet to see considered:

After seeing her Broken Mag... Revolver Shoot a few times, it seems that it's not really a magic shot at all. It appears as though the magical ball she shoots is only a leader for the actual attack, which is the tornado that hits (a vaccum attack so to speak). In her second use, we never see the blue ball leader, only the tornado.

In which case, she could fire Revolver Shoot at a AMF equipped enemy... and while the ball itself is dispersed, the tornado that follows would at least inflict damage to a drone. Although we've yet to see whether this would be Subaru's line of attack against AMF equipped drones, and even if it is, whether Revolver Shoot is powerful enough to actually be effective ^^;
__________________

On Perspective: "Depending on who you talk to, twintails are either ponytails multiplied by two, or divided by two.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-04-04, 11:41   Link #320
Loner
Lurking In the Darknes...
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The 97th Non-Administered World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Funny you should mention her , doesn't she have a frost dragon (I would call it more of a whelp) ? What are the odds of her and Chrono having the same elemental base attacks ? (edit: hint - VA)
Oh, great. Just what Chrono didn't need - another overly cute girl to call him, "Oni-chan". I'm beginning to wonder if he'll survive 26 episodes of this...

Quote:
Or perhaps it wasn't a field that was commonly researched, so the enforcers would just have to tough it out for the moment...
Well, it makes perfect sense that the TSAB wouldn't use an AMF under normal circumstances. After all, the organization was built around their mages and if you put up an AMF, YOU can't use any magic in it either!

Quote:
...Until they create a AMF canceller! (That sounds familiar...)
An AAMF? Great, now we're into the ECM / ECCM back and forth routines...

Quote:
@Skane
But if you apply anime logic, it IS possible that the sweet, innocent girl would always be the most powerful...

... Look at Hayate!! (Okay, maybe not the innocent part...)
Thus, Chrono living in fear of the now quadrouple-barreled "Waiiii! Oni-chan!" attack.

edit: Wait. That would only be the penultimate form of the attack. There's a much more frightening version:

Spoiler:

Last edited by Loner; 2007-04-04 at 12:33.
Loner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.