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Old 2007-04-06, 07:01   Link #21
Sheppie
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
As for Nod ... well, Venom are very weak against ground targets, to the point they are almost pointless unless you have at least 30 of them. They are fairly good for taking out Scrin aircraft carriers and those other flying, shielded ships though (can't remember the name right now).
Agree, but they are cheap and if you have lets say, 20 and place them WITH ground support, the overall destruction of the enemy base rises quick i can tell you, ecspesialy when fighting against the NOD with the central hub as defense
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Old 2007-04-07, 13:36   Link #22
nikorai
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To tell the truth I find it surprising to see a thread about such a game here. I thought it is all about japanese stuff but it looks like people dont forget about western games either.

ah reading about c&c brings so much of nostalgia. it is actually that i've played in all the games in the series, the first one dates back to 1995 but i could actually play it in 97 when i got my first pc. in fact things were easier back then, i went to school, I didnt learn japanese and i had plenty of time to play games.

closer to the topic, so far i have heard mostly positive replies about this game. I think I might get myself a copy when I have an opportunity to go shopping. my schedule in the last weeks was very tough. the only problem i have a very old pc, its my 3rd one but its been with me for years. apparently i ll have to get a new pc first.
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Old 2007-04-07, 16:44   Link #23
KNETTER2000
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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I like it!

I love the fact you can get 4 upgrades on your avatars (at the expense of other units) although it's quite the investment..
They just harvest technology like big metallic Borg..
The motorbike(detect stealth), beamtank(well, obviously the beamweapon), stealthtank( stealth generator.. goes on like a mask ) and the flametank(flames for those pesky infantry).. all on 1 Avatar..

The defensive power in turrets (except the hand of NOD) on NOD is dire.. I think the power of one GDI turret is divided between the three turrets you get with NOD.. the laser turrets are underpowered, you might as well put your grandmother with a rolling pin in front of the vehicles, she'll give em more hell..

IMHO NOD in this game is not a heavy frontdoor slugger. They're more of a sneaky backdoor passage faction now.. those hangglide troopers can almost go anywhere undetected and when you land them they're quite strong against infantry etc and they have explosives.
Take out the powerplants, no more defenses, bombard the heavier vehicles, then send in your other troops and voila, victory. I've landed many victories using them..

GDI is more the frontal assault type in the game with the heavier tanks like mammoth tank and the Juggernaut artillery mech.. what I also like about the juggernaut is that if a target is in sight of a sniper you can put down artillery on the spot you choose across the map with it.. the juggernaut can just stay in your base and lay waste to buildings on the other side of the map while just being at your base...

Mammoth tanks or Avatars( not if it;s got a flamethrower on it though) and even the big scrin tripods are actually very easy to destroy if you have a commando running around.. they just bomb it like they do with buildings and when you destroy them, you can harvest their husks for your own benefit.

I am loving the game+ gameplay once again..
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Old 2007-04-07, 19:48   Link #24
Red Herring
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Damn I'm a huge CnC fan but I dunno if I should get this or Paper Mario. Grrrrrr decisions tick me off!
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Old 2007-04-08, 11:08   Link #25
nikorai
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by the way if youre interested to know. i have a flag of NOD. i ordered it several years ago. it cost me quite some money so I still keep it in my room. of course now i think that way quite a stupid idea because the flag is totally useless

Last edited by nikorai; 2007-04-08 at 11:10. Reason: update
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Old 2007-04-08, 11:37   Link #26
felix
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@ Skyfall

> As for GDi...i have found their AA turrets a complete suckage. (must be to compensate for Nod Laser turrets who suck as well ). You better keep a good amount of Pitbulls ready for AA duty. The Nod AA turrets are fairly nice. (Though the computer is actually smart enough to target that central structure, causing all 3 of your turrets go boom).
Well the GDI anti-air are meant to be resilient as hell..
Just place one and you don't have to worry of it ever again, since those things are almost imposible to take down.

Ohh and about those laser laser turrets..
They're not that weak..
The trick is to count the hubs and not the turrets, if you judge based on the hubs they're actually more resistent and damaging then the equivalent of other 2 factions.
Also if you really want to make them effective, add a stealth generator (or watheva~ it's called).. place it's just in range of the turrets and hubs.. and voiala, effective laser turrets.
> I have to say i have developed a huge liking to the Sonic Turrets - they are irreplaceable when repelling a huge attack. Nothing like seeing half the attacking force disappear at once
Yup the sonic cannon are the best defence in the game. They're only weakness is that they won't fire at targets that are up close and personal. (no idea why) And apparently they're attack radius exides the designeted one. (they won't attack beyond tho' unless you tell them to)
As for Nod ... well, Venom are very weak against ground targets, to the point they are almost pointless unless you have at least 30 of them. They are fairly good for taking out Scrin aircraft carriers and those other flying, shielded ships though (can't remember the name right now).
They are cheap..
With Nod you can't really compare one on one, I mean those buggyes are cost almost as much as infantry.. lol
Though the Vertigo Bombers don't impress me much - i think Firehawk has a stronger attack, and stealth won't get you far when the map is crawling with enemies, and it certainly won't get you past base defenses ... i use the mostly for defense to blow up some big attacking targets (Mamoths etc).
Their attack is stronger..
But it will, I'm seing less unit loss with them.. especially against nod or more precisly, rockets.. what happens is that misiles are just a lil' fater then them so the vertigos can out-run them at least until they exit the base.. once they're out stealth will kick in, and when it does misile tracking fails and your bommers are home free.. the only danger is when they first enter the base.. but that's not so much of a problem.. they're very resilient and its likely only one unit will take the front blunt of the defenses.
One thing i haven't been able to grasp it the overall strength of Avatar... it looks fairly good, but to make them is expensive as hell ... not to mention the additional cost if you want to "mount" something on his left arm as well. You will end up paying 4000$ for one battle-ready Avatar, while 2 Mamoths cost 4500$. And i am fairly certain that 2 Mamoths will rip that Avatar apart. (Not to mention they have AA capabilities.)
When you play with nod.. just tank spam.. they have no effective blunt force.

Stealth Tanks i like however. My favorite Nod unit i believe. And i do love the stealthed harvesters - nothing makes me laugh like seeing my harvester munching down tiberium near a computers base, provided it doesn't run in to defenses


I predict your love with stealth tanks will be short lived..
They won't provide you with any blunt offensive powee if that's what you're looking for to do with them.
Stealth Tank Specifications

-- Defense: Fast Light Armored, Weak Vs. All but infantry.
-- Ability: Stealth, visible only when fiering, fires barage of misiles (weak vs ground, strong vs air).
-- Strong @ Destroying enemy Juggernauts, Harversters (sneak attack) [Used by AI ], Killing(squishing) Infantry (sneak attack), Taking Down All Kinds Air Units.
... Nod have little problem on the defense - the problems start when you need to move to attack. And watching a bunch of Scorpions go up against Mamoths is not pretty (though the suicidal maniacs are insanely good they cause destruction like mo tomorrow 0_o ... i swear, i never expected them to be this strong...i learned my lesson when i got half my base leveled with them when i was lacking in anti-infantry defense ...ever since then i started to use them)
They are expensive and for a one shot attack they're not desireble.
What's really getting on my nerve lately is all this tank spam that's flying around.. Sure I like tanks but you should be able to pwn them with recket infantry, but you can't even if you place them in foxholes they're still damn weak, and all this 'tanks can stump them' is getting on my nerve.. can't they just jump out of the way

-------------------------------
Does anyone know of a effective way to mount a defence against tank swarms. Well besides tank swarming yourself. I think with nod you might be able to beat one with just EMP-buggys and rocketeers squads.. GDI seem to have almost every unit and structure designed for this but I can't seem to make any of them work just right >_<''

Post Scriptum
Mines are seriosly underpowered.. I was thinking I could use GDI MPCs to lay mind fields for tanks.. the only thing you can hope to accomplish with them is to somehow make the enemy detect them, so he can waste time blowing them up.
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Old 2007-04-08, 13:38   Link #27
blitz1/2
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This is so good, I can't wait for an expansion pack!
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Old 2007-04-09, 01:16   Link #28
Alexandrite
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Well, I'm glad to hear that so many people are enjoying it. I was horribly afraid that it would turn out like C&C Generals and bore me to tears. At some point I'll have to pick it up. Woo. ^_^
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Old 2007-04-10, 21:43   Link #29
Honey_and_Cleaver
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I heard that theres three factions now. Nod,GDI and aliens. Im looking foward in seeing the aliens.
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Old 2007-04-11, 04:23   Link #30
felix
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Yup.. I don't like the aliens. Din't play much with them other then the campaing.
I think they're ugly and a stupid adition.. boo~
GDI & Nod will always be the only C&C factions for me.
----------------------------
On another note, related to the question about how to beat a tank spam.. After tring a hell lot of stratagies from mass mines, mass infantry, mass orcas, tech rush.. etc. I found you can beat the initial rush, but it's helllish intensive.. so in other words you'll survive a lil' but your destin to defeat.

Apparently which way you look, making tanks for defence is ideal.
The ballence seems to focus on tanks as the main attack/defensive force.
So basicly you can't go tech 3 or air armada or SneakAttack succesfully withought early game building a few tanks for defence. (ok sneak attack with shadows early game might work.. sometimes~)

Ironacly, the Scorpion tank (which is pretty damn weak) is one of the best tanks in the game, since you can just have so damn many of them. So yeah Nod pack one of the meanest tank punches in the game.. you can try to go for mamoths but by the time you have 4 your oponent will have something like 37498723894843967394579823145 scorpion tanks.

--------------------------------
Compared to other balances in other good stratagy games I'm liking this kind of linear evolution. (GDI predators are my fav unit in the game anyway~ :3)
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Old 2007-04-14, 10:53   Link #31
Sheppie
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Well, i've played online a few times but the ranking is(was) fricking bugged if you ask me, i think they've fixed it now but is was quite annoying.

And about the avatar being underpowerd: Normaly I tent not to listen to rumors very often but this 1 caught my intrest, that patch 1.05 will also be a balance patch for the avatar and mammoth tanks. I mean seriously, those mammoths are a bit overpowerd compared to the super unit of the nod (avatar). even with al the upgrades 1 avatar vs 1 mammoth = avatar blown to pieces. So i hope that it will be more than a rumor.

But online is quite hard if you ask me (I suck in most of the maps), rush is still the best option for online but in network against (or with) my friends we tent to rush quite a lot less. Dn0 why though
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Old 2007-04-14, 17:44   Link #32
felix
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I hope they power up the avatar and just leave the mamoth alone, or at least balence it out thru' things like increased firing speed. I like the current balence where you need to make Tier 1 units early game Tier 2 for sneak attacks or 'stratigic strikes' sorta speak and Tier 3 to end the game.

Sure a game will almost never last more then 15 minutes, 20 max (mostly cuz resource depletion is high) but I feel I'm playing more in 7 minutes in this game then say 30-40 in a starcraft game, which in my opinion is somewhat the polar oposite of this. For say here it's a firestorm war where you just have to keep up logistics and control the battle field (and at least in the games I've played, exept for the first 2-3 minutes, there are always tanks missle soldiers avatars.. <you name it> fighting somewhere.) ..where as in something like starcraft you have short battles and your always in a state of 'depression' sorta speak~ (unless you go for those unlimited resource maps lol)

-------------------------------------------
> Well, i've played online a few times but the ranking is(was) fricking bugged if you ask me, i think they've fixed it now but is was quite annoying.
Yup.. nuked in the last patches.. they also seem to make covert balence changes. I know something like all turrets could see invisible units.. (hell it's writen' in the damn intel DB too..) now things like GDI anti-infantry can't (just to name one), it's most likely meant to make sneak attacks more feasable.

------------------------------------------------
> But online is quite hard if you ask me (I suck in most of the maps), rush is still the best option for online but in network against (or with) my friends we tent to rush quite a lot less. Dn0 why though
Build up like you would with a tank rush. (max 2 war factories)
Build something 3 to 5 anti-infantry turrets at the major attack points,
Build a lot of rocket squads.
This will work well against a tank spammer if you can keep the balence trick. Just macro the tanks as a meat shield against the tank spammer, rocket infantry are almost imposible to get at. Also try to kill any MPC or buggyes he may have.

To win mass 3 squads of bommers or you can go orcas with GDI as well.. then go and kill his base construction ability then his war factories. Air defence for a tank spammer is almost non-existent lol, and pitbulls, I think, were downgraded a lil' as anti air.

Well this is a good turtle stratagy, it won't work on all maps but on some of the popular ones it will. (you'll need some practice lol a lil' more then you need to get tank spams reasonably right)
BTW if air fails.. nuke him'

--------------------------------------------
I know tank spam is well everywhere.. and I can't say they're cheating.. if you play against brutal GDI steamrollers you'll notice they do it too.. so I think the game was meant to be played this way..

I know there are a lot of self proclaimed experts everywhere moning on how they can't snale and turtle.. lol. Like instead of having cool units like tanks and instead having just boring building and playing endless games is more fun.
Sure I like to macro my way to victory but I the though of macroing in this game like in starcraft with drops etc. just sounds utterly ridiculas.

The only thing I agree with them is the moans on walls.. I've always loved to doll-house myself in old C&C games. (yeah really old ones..) Damn EA for taking them away~ <moans>
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Old 2007-04-14, 18:52   Link #33
Skyfall
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^ Aye, i agree that playing a 7 minutes of this = 20 minutes of Starcraft Each time i finish a game and see that the time is 23minutes (or close to that) i go : Wtf ?

As for the rushing... well - like it or not, it is the easiest way to achieve victory. And it is the only possible way to win against Scrin.

I have been playing a lot of matches against my friend on LAN, (he uses only Scrin), and i can say one thing - unless i manage to snatch the victory in the first 10 or so minutes, i am toast. You will simply run out of $$$, while Scrin just keep going with their tiberium regrowth accelerators.

Not that taking him out early is an easy task either - since he knows how i am going to attack (face it - there is not much variety), it is easy to prepare for that. Once he starts popping up those storm generating turrets it is a lost cause - those things are insane. Either i manage to keep pressure on him and break him, or i am toast because i run out of money. Then it is just a matter of time before he comes with 20 aircraft carriers+other crap. (after opening a black hole near my Ion canon control and dropping in enough units to destroy it).

And yea - i miss the walls as well (and i want my firestorm defense )
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Old 2007-04-15, 06:59   Link #34
urSeph
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Scrin pawns..... in air though
with ion storms that make those carriers like swarm of bees...
its like land units for support and air as primary attackers
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Old 2007-04-17, 01:42   Link #35
LoweGear
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I need help on a strange matter:

Everytime I battle GDI AI, it seems that they have a beam like weapon, like the ion cannon, that results in an EMP effect. And yet when I play GDI, the only weapon I have with a similar effect is the Shockwave Artillery, and even then the AI can use both that "beam EMP" ability AND Shockwave Artillery (which has resulted in a lot of cursing, swearing, and general cries of vengeance).

Anyone knows whether this is a special AI only ability, or am I missing something here?
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Old 2007-04-17, 02:36   Link #36
problemedchild
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It's a neutral building ability. Go capture or destroy it.
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Old 2007-04-17, 02:48   Link #37
KNETTER2000
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[edit]read wrongly..

it's indeed a neutral building like problemedchild said
you can't build those.
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Last edited by KNETTER2000; 2007-04-17 at 03:02.
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Old 2007-04-17, 03:05   Link #38
Sylphic
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I'd have gotten this game, but I've had nasty experiences with Westwood RTS in the past so I chose to avoid this title.

There's something wrong with game balance when you see numbers like:

RANKED GAMES PLAYED BY TOP 10 PLAYERS WITH EACH CIV AS OF TODAY 16TH APRIL

NOD = 1362

GDI = 267

SCRIN = 19


Still nothing to beat the efficiency of tank spam vs. tank spam. The whole multiplayer strategy revolves around building 1 or 2 units on each side. Sorry if I'm pooping on your party, but just my 2 cents.
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Old 2007-04-17, 07:14   Link #39
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
It's a neutral building ability. Go capture or destroy it.
Thanks for the info. Seems I'm not as keen on Tech Buildings here as I was with Generals or RA2 (in fact, I don't capture tech buildings in C&C3 at all).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylphic
Still nothing to beat the efficiency of tank spam vs. tank spam. The whole multiplayer strategy revolves around building 1 or 2 units on each side. Sorry if I'm pooping on your party, but just my 2 cents.
You can go that route here yeah, with the power of the Mammoth MkIII, Avatar Warmech and Tripod, although all the Uber defenses each side can make here makes that option rather expensive. And I'm actually surprised NOD is the top faction played - NOD in C&C3 isn't exactly the best faction for massive tank spam as you would claim.
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Old 2007-04-17, 07:49   Link #40
KNETTER2000
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I'm genuinly not digging the brutal cheat the cpu uses in Skirmish

Spoiler for airspam frenzy by scrin:
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