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Old 2007-04-08, 22:28   Link #281
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehros View Post
Acording to the anime the Arc-en-ciel does not destroy, rather it consumes everything in its radius. Quoting Yuuno from Episode 12.

"Taking its initial firing point as the center its a magical canon that distorts the space surrounding it and consumes everything up to hundreds of kilometers away"-acording to the subbed epidode 12

That's why they didn't want it to be fired at the earth.

On a side note: Hello!! I'm new here though I've been lurking for a while. I finally decided to post something. Hope we get along great.

Welcome to the fold.

Also, most of us said 'vaporized', which is more or less the same as 'consumed' if you look at its effect.

Either way, 'destroy' is just a general term to describe it, we all pretty much got the hint that it's a big bang (not literally, of course)
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Old 2007-04-09, 00:16   Link #282
Kikaifan
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Large cities aren't just hundreds of kilometers in area radius.

No one doubts Arc's, or even any top mage's ability to cause heavy collateral damage...It's just not as great as everyone seems to think.
NYC would be ~16 km in radius if its area were evened into a circle. Using the full New York Metropolitan Area the area is equal to a 75 km radius circle. Even the whole of New York state only has the area of a 200km radius circle.

Depending on how many secondary/physical effects the weapon has it could easily destroy a much larger area. Of course, it could easily have none being magical...
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Old 2007-04-09, 04:31   Link #283
Aaron008R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehros View Post
Acording to the anime the Arc-en-ciel does not destroy, rather it consumes everything in its radius. Quoting Yuuno from Episode 12.

"Taking its initial firing point as the center its a magical canon that distorts the space surrounding it and consumes everything up to hundreds of kilometers away"-acording to the subbed epidode 12

That's why they didn't want it to be fired at the earth.

On a side note: Hello!! I'm new here though I've been lurking for a while. I finally decided to post something. Hope we get along great.
Welcome. So the Arc-en-Ciel is a giant magical Black Hole Cannon? More SRW references! Hope the big guns like Arc doesn't get shafted as well. It would be good to see any more action from these magical nukes. I'm not sure if it would be a good idea, but they could insert an extremely large mech with an AMF that requires nuking just to neutralize. But maybe that's too Gundam-ish for the Nanohaverse.
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Old 2007-04-09, 05:16   Link #284
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I always associated the thing with Washu's dimensional cannon.

Personally I don't think saying consume is any different from saying destroy in that context.
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Old 2007-04-09, 06:41   Link #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Starlight Breaker does magical damage which only damages those with magical properties, I think it does damage to a person's linker core if hit. Remember Fate and Nanoha's final clash? Fate was still reasonably whole after being bombarded with Starlight Breaker.
That actually does explain why Fate wasn't completely vaporized by the Starlight Breaker, but then I'm not sure why there was that huge plume of water when the Starlight Breaker impacted the sea. If magical energy doesn't affect physical objects, then there should have been no spray.
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Old 2007-04-09, 06:47   Link #286
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Oh no I feel the coming of an anime theory of relativity...
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Old 2007-04-09, 07:14   Link #287
Chaos2Frozen
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Maybe... Fate fell really really fast?

...And got back up in time to fall again?

...
...
...

...Nvm.
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Old 2007-04-09, 08:04   Link #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
That actually does explain why Fate wasn't completely vaporized by the Starlight Breaker, but then I'm not sure why there was that huge plume of water when the Starlight Breaker impacted the sea. If magical energy doesn't affect physical objects, then there should have been no spray.
Dramatic License.

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Old 2007-04-09, 08:06   Link #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
That actually does explain why Fate wasn't completely vaporized by the Starlight Breaker, but then I'm not sure why there was that huge plume of water when the Starlight Breaker impacted the sea. If magical energy doesn't affect physical objects, then there should have been no spray.
My own pet theory on the matter: Fate at the last minute put all her power into her barrier jacket, just enough to prevent her getting obliterated by SB. Either that, or Nanoha's SB at the time was so unfocused that despite it's overwhelming power, in reality Fate was only recieving a fraction of its power, but because she couldn't block out that power she still ended up beat.

Or, it could be that Starlight Breaker works like Cyflash, and is selective on which targets it destroys ^^;;;
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Old 2007-04-09, 11:16   Link #290
Julius Firefocht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
That actually does explain why Fate wasn't completely vaporized by the Starlight Breaker, but then I'm not sure why there was that huge plume of water when the Starlight Breaker impacted the sea. If magical energy doesn't affect physical objects, then there should have been no spray.
The Nanoha novel does state that magical attacks have 2 settings. The first setting damages only targets with magical energy in them, causing them pain but leaving them physically unharmed. For example, Nanoha was not too thrilled to be on the receiving end of a full powered Photon Lancer from Fate, even though Fate expressedly stated that the attack would not cause physical harm. Nanoha knew that there would be a great deal of pain involved even if her body would not be physically harmed.

The 2nd setting deals physical damage, plain and simple. The most recent example of that would be Nanoha using Divine Buster to blow away the statue and the roof in the 1st episode of StrikerS. No decent minded mage would use this setting aggressively, unless he/she really wants the target dead. Starlight Breaker on this setting would probably be powerful enough to leave city-sized craters in the ground.

So why was there this huge plume of water when Starlight Breaker impacted the sea when Nanoha was obviously using the 1st setting? My guess would be that the water somehow reacted to the magical energies. Or perhaps there was residue heat or kinetic energy within the attack that needed to be expended somewhere, and so Nanoha chose to blast it on the water so as to spare Fate. You guess is as good as mine.
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Old 2007-04-09, 15:26   Link #291
kari-no-sugata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Firefocht View Post
The Nanoha novel does state that magical attacks have 2 settings. The first setting damages only targets with magical energy in them, causing them pain but leaving them physically unharmed. For example, Nanoha was not too thrilled to be on the receiving end of a full powered Photon Lancer from Fate, even though Fate expressedly stated that the attack would not cause physical harm. Nanoha knew that there would be a great deal of pain involved even if her body would not be physically harmed.

The 2nd setting deals physical damage, plain and simple. The most recent example of that would be Nanoha using Divine Buster to blow away the statue and the roof in the 1st episode of StrikerS. No decent minded mage would use this setting aggressively, unless he/she really wants the target dead. Starlight Breaker on this setting would probably be powerful enough to leave city-sized craters in the ground.

So why was there this huge plume of water when Starlight Breaker impacted the sea when Nanoha was obviously using the 1st setting? My guess would be that the water somehow reacted to the magical energies. Or perhaps there was residue heat or kinetic energy within the attack that needed to be expended somewhere, and so Nanoha chose to blast it on the water so as to spare Fate. You guess is as good as mine.
Maybe it's not possible to have 100% on "magic damage". Let's say even if you try really hard, you still get 0.1% physical damage - if Starlight Breaker does 1,000,000 points damage say, then that's still 1,000 points of physical damage.
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Old 2007-04-09, 16:53   Link #292
Kikaifan
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So we've now got 'magic->magic->magic' ('no-damage'), 'magic->magic->physical' (damaging the physical world directly with magical energy, 'real damage'), 'magic->physical->physical' (damaging the physical world indirectly with physical effects created by magic, 'indirect damage') and 'physical->physical->physical' ('hitting things').

Another hypothesis on the SB secondary effects issue: maybe 'real damage' breaks through barriers better (it sure seems like weapons can smash barriers better than anything short of a collection spell) so mages always have an incentive to be dealing at least some real damage in a serious fight. Nanoha did claim she was going all out- maybe she really did use full power and Fate's armor was just strong enough to keep her alive?

I'm with the above on the point that their attacks have to be a least a tiny bit physical though. If you can see it, it emits light (or excites particles it passes through to the point where they emit visible light), and therefore has physical effects. Obviously even the 'magic->magic->magic' damage setting interacts with the physical universe somehow, or it'd be invisible.

Unless one just goes with the 'filmed in mage-o-vision' excuse.
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Old 2007-04-09, 21:35   Link #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
I'm with the above on the point that their attacks have to be a least a tiny bit physical though. If you can see it, it emits light (or excites particles it passes through to the point where they emit visible light), and therefore has physical effects. Obviously even the 'magic->magic->magic' damage setting interacts with the physical universe somehow, or it'd be invisible.
Hmm, this reminded me of something, remember YnS's chant on Starlight Breaker the word light does appear alot durning the spell. If Starlight Breaker is a Magic/Light based spell or as the above said somehow effected light particles or even magic may behave like light, Then with the dual nature of light, there are at least some physical damgage due Photons that are particals
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Old 2007-04-10, 16:42   Link #294
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It's funny how YnS's SB causes quite a bit of blast effect, without the shockwave, and without blasting the district to rubble. There's unfortunately always going to be a lot of plot drive in these kinds of stories, or else the author's would have too many consequences of these battle's to account for in the story. Like, although at the ending of S1, when Testarossa'S Fortress of Solitude was collapsing (and the seeds were activated) Uminari City (and theoretically the whole world) was experiencing an
earthquake, because of the dimensional disruption. No mention, or signs of, devastation caused by eruptions and earthquakes one might expect to be triggered by a planet-wide tremblor (even if it's pretty low on the richter scale)
Or, after firing of the rainbow gun :P, which had pretty amazing looking effects, noone seems to have noticed any effects from a magical super nuke. What, no blinding light in orbit lighting up the night sky, or possible "leaking" physical effects
like EMP , gravity waves, EM radiation, no satellites knocked out, or even in the way? Few author's or producer's of series are really concerned with logical consistency, or "retconning" wouldn't be needed. That sort of detail simply goes to deep for the purposes of hammering out a weekly television series. I do like to try to piece together "the way things work" for these kinds of stories, alas, the fudge factor will always remain quite large.
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Old 2007-04-10, 16:55   Link #295
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Last edited by Woden; 2007-04-10 at 17:28.
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Old 2007-04-10, 17:55   Link #296
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
Power levels yes. But there's a difference between raw power and how well that can be applied to the situation. As Chrono has shown Fate very clearly in the comics. The ranking exams we've seen so far test applied skills, not raw power.

For the higher rankings, I wonder if there are even exams, or what. They're probably optional at least. I suspect Hayate has been pushing to advance her ranking (both as a mage and within the organisation) as fast as possible, while I doubt Nanoha is interested in such things, and probably mostly gets field promotions. Probably why she has her "ace of aces" tag.
After a certain level rank is reached in a military organization, the amount of "getting one's hands dirty " one get's to do goes down inversely proportional (exponential curve )to the paper work (read: desk job) you get saddled with. So yeah, seeing as how Nanoha mentions how much she loves flying, and the rest of her duties, she'd be
real leery of getting saddled with higher command. Not too mention, it would make it
more difficult for Hayate to get her assigned to the new Unit. Can't, for instance, have a Lt Col. reporting to another Lt. Col. Not in a normal Table of Organization, anway.
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Old 2007-04-10, 18:14   Link #297
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Except that this is Nanoha, the TSAB is a bit more like a police force in terms of action, and their admirals command ships from the field. Even the enforcers do paperwork. Based on what we've seen, it does not seem like you just get a desk job. If the case of Admiral Lindy is at all indicative of the process, you have to be willing to stop doing field work.
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Old 2007-04-10, 19:05   Link #298
Kikaifan
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Since the TSAB seems to promote at least partly on the basis of individual power they certainly have an incentive to keep their officers on the front lines.

I'm surprised they don't seem to encourage Graham's solution more for the high-power high-rank individuals, though- make familiars to keep your magical power in play while your brain and admiral's stars stay back at headquarters.
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Old 2007-04-10, 19:45   Link #299
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Hence my fear that Commodore Harlaown would be taking his mother's place in firing the Arc-en-Ciel (You know they're just itching to use it again...) for this season instead of being out there slicing, binding or freezing stuff.
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Old 2007-04-10, 20:32   Link #300
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Hence my fear that Commodore Harlaown would be taking his mother's place in firing the Arc-en-Ciel (You know they're just itching to use it again...) for this season instead of being out there slicing, binding or freezing stuff.
Why not do both then? I'm not worrying much. Chrono is someone who (fortunately) the producers are willing to flesh out. Just a guess, but I'm pretty sure that he would be able to show off a good performance in the field like the past two seasons. The only worry I have is him not getting a decent solo battle with a boss class enemy. He definitely could handle that much, considering that he should be around or maybe above the Aces' levels.
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