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Old 2007-08-28, 02:47   Link #1381
Frankenstein's Clare
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Are you sure you didn't confuse Nanoha and Sailor Moon?
What? Reference is to Chrono's bit on the effects of Lost Logia/dimensional dislocation in the first season. I'd think the stakes on the Cradle are way higher since it's a complete artifact and looks to be a proper weapon instead of just a tool.
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Old 2007-08-28, 05:05   Link #1382
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein's Clare View Post
What? Reference is to Chrono's bit on the effects of Lost Logia/dimensional dislocation in the first season. I'd think the stakes on the Cradle are way higher since it's a complete artifact and looks to be a proper weapon instead of just a tool.
Causing dimensional dislocation/distortion on its own doesn't seem to be all that awesome. If we're talking in terms of trans-dimensional offensive capabilities, the Cradle has that ability too, once it reaches optimum point. There's a difference between causing dimensional distortions and destroying time-space to extents where worlds are destroyed because of it.

Besides, Jail has these Jewel Seeds, but it didn't seem to be of any worth to him other than to be reverse-engineered to make his...'lousy drones' better a little..
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Old 2007-08-28, 05:41   Link #1383
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein's Clare View Post
What? Reference is to Chrono's bit on the effects of Lost Logia/dimensional dislocation in the first season. I'd think the stakes on the Cradle are way higher since it's a complete artifact and looks to be a proper weapon instead of just a tool.
Do note that multiple Jewel Seeds were required for that, though.

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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Causing dimensional dislocation/distortion on its own doesn't seem to be all that awesome. If we're talking in terms of trans-dimensional offensive capabilities, the Cradle has that ability too, once it reaches optimum point. There's a difference between causing dimensional distortions and destroying time-space to extents where worlds are destroyed because of it.
Er.. dimensional distortions can and will destroy worlds, actually. Compare it to an earthquake on a dimensional scale, the tremors of the distortion can tear worlds apart.

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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Besides, Jail has these Jewel Seeds, but it didn't seem to be of any worth to him other than to be reverse-engineered to make his...'lousy drones' better a little..
These jewel seeds were microchip-sized, though. Logically they're be far less powerfull. Besides, Relics seem far more powerfull, as only one already has the abillity to destroy worlds, or so Fate said.
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Old 2007-08-28, 06:27   Link #1384
Frankenstein's Clare
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Ever since they started using the term 'Relic' I've been confused over whether they're using the term generally, as an alternative phrase for 'Lost Logia', to refer to a specific subclass of objects within Lost Logia, or something else. Is there an official word on what exactly it means? I don't recall the characters ever being particularly helpful but I might have just not been paying attention.
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Old 2007-08-28, 06:35   Link #1385
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein's Clare View Post
Ever since they started using the term 'Relic' I've been confused over whether they're using the term generally, as an alternative phrase for 'Lost Logia', to refer to a specific subclass of objects within Lost Logia, or something else. Is there an official word on what exactly it means? I don't recall the characters ever being particularly helpful but I might have just not been paying attention.
It's not an alternate phrase, it's their name. Relic's are the red crystals you see mostly in StrikerS. Just like how Jewel Seeds are called Jewel Seeds in the first season, but they are Lost Logia.

To make it simple: Lost Logia = Powerfull technollogy or artefacts comming from now destroyed worlds.

Relics, Jewel Seeds and Yami no Sho are all Lost Logia.
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Old 2007-08-28, 07:03   Link #1386
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
And besides, Cradle's right now at power-saving mode, and EVEN in that condition, Hayate cites it is not something that can be overcome by mere mages regardless of numbers from the outside. Those words came from a freaking SS-rank Nuke like her! And it's already spamming beams from ALL directions too. It's true power will be reached when it reaches optimum point, where drawing power from the moons, even Arc probably cannot scratch Cradle, while it'll have enough power to bombard Mid-childa to smithereens.[/SPOILER]
The first is already categorically false, because as you can see, they (perfectly ordinary Sky Mages) already punched at least one hole into the hull. Not a big one, sure, but it shows that the hull is hardly impenetrable. The difficulty with downing it seems to be more sheer size than anything. Its defensive beams don't seem overwhelmingly powerful or coordinate either (otherwise, those wimp mages will be swept out of the skies by now). I'm hoping it shapes up before it reaches orbit.
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Old 2007-08-28, 08:16   Link #1387
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Ah... For that we have somthing called "Original Generation" consisting of purely of the OCs we created, instead of fanon modifications. However, all the data isn't RP friendly; its meant to be used in fics, so it won't be as technical as an RP requires.
Ah I see...Original Generation, huh? Hmmm...my current planning for the one I'm starting is to have lots of elements from the three seasons put together while leaving it at a certain timeline. The profile is a bit tricky ^^;

Anyway...

-looks at the current discussion.-

I have to agree with arkhangelsk about some points, Even though a good number of them are Aerial/Sky Mages. The Cradle does have it's weaknesses, it's not able to handle from what I can see from the episodes of multiple small targets that are flying around separately thus the defensive beams do not hit all of them. Though as Yuuno had conviently explained. The Cradle's true power will be reached because of the moons, however the Arc~En~Ciel Cannon on any of the TSAB warships will be able to do quite a bit of damage. And Hayate-chan who is a SS-Rank Aerial/Sky Mage is handling both offensive and strategics at the same time, as well as part of the time trying to help the other Aerial/Sky Mages from being killed during the whole battle.

Just like the end of Episode 22, everyone is getting tired except a few characters. Signum's battle with Zest was proof that some members had it a bit easier than others.

I'm still worried about one particular red knight with an iron hammer right now.
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Old 2007-08-28, 09:37   Link #1388
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's not an alternate phrase, it's their name. Relic's are the red crystals you see mostly in StrikerS. Just like how Jewel Seeds are called Jewel Seeds in the first season, but they are Lost Logia.

To make it simple: Lost Logia = Powerfull technollogy or artefacts comming from now destroyed worlds.

Relics, Jewel Seeds and Yami no Sho are all Lost Logia.
Doesn't the Cradle fit in that category too?
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Old 2007-08-28, 09:43   Link #1389
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Doesn't the Cradle fit in that category too?
The Cradle is actually an Ancient Belka weapon from what I think is being said in the series. It's just a giant warship, much bigger than any of the TSAB warships.
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Old 2007-08-28, 11:01   Link #1390
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The Cradle is actually an Ancient Belka weapon from what I think is being said in the series. It's just a giant warship, much bigger than any of the TSAB warships.
It was classified as a Lost Logia even back in Ancient Belkan times, possibly linked to Alhazred. So, Ancient Belka most likely didn't create it, but they did use it.

So yeah, it's a Lost Logia over 300 years old at least.
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Old 2007-08-28, 14:00   Link #1391
Frankenstein's Clare
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Yeah, I'd heard the Cradle was Alhazred tech, not Belkan. Though I think that was just off some blog.
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Old 2007-08-28, 16:29   Link #1392
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein's Clare View Post
Yeah, I'd heard the Cradle was Alhazred tech, not Belkan. Though I think that was just off some blog.
It's Velkan alright, mentioned multiple times...
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Old 2007-08-28, 19:53   Link #1393
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Okay from what I can guess, this ancient Belkan weapon is able to use Relics when they are combined with a 'Holy Emperor' or some vessel to help power it, the fact this Cradle is able to use a human as a battery of sorts, makes me think that somewhere in the past some idiot guy was obsessed enough to try to use this because of the legendary myth of Al Hazard.
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Old 2007-08-28, 22:40   Link #1394
Frankenstein's Clare
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's Velkan alright, mentioned multiple times...
In the raws maybe. Some of us are stuck reading other people's explanations. At any rate this can only hurt my estimation of Ancient Belkan color-coordination strategies.

Seriously, I hope this thing was built before the Book, because as cliche as black armor with gold/silver trim is, it looks a hell of a lot cooler than yellow and purple hull plating. And I'd like to think they learned from their mistakes.

That WOULD explain why they buried the thing and forgot about it. Would you want your interdimensional flagship, symbol of your culture to foreign worlds, to look that hideous? Scaglietti's obviously the only one crazy enough to actually want the thing. That or he wanted a ship that'd match his eye/hair color.
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Old 2007-08-28, 23:04   Link #1395
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein's Clare View Post
In the raws maybe. Some of us are stuck reading other people's explanations. At any rate this can only hurt my estimation of Ancient Belkan color-coordination strategies.

Seriously, I hope this thing was built before the Book, because as cliche as black armor with gold/silver trim is, it looks a hell of a lot cooler than yellow and purple hull plating. And I'd like to think they learned from their mistakes.

That WOULD explain why they buried the thing and forgot about it. Would you want your interdimensional flagship, symbol of your culture to foreign worlds, to look that hideous? Scaglietti's obviously the only one crazy enough to actually want the thing. That or he wanted a ship that'd match his eye/hair color.

Belka did not create the Cradle. It was already a Lost Logia back in their times, which meant that unless there was a more Ancient Belka than Ancient Belka, Belka, or more precisely Saint King merely exploited it. The usage of Cradle is associated to Ancient Belka/Saint King, but its origin is not.

300 years ago was before the times of TSAB. It shouldn't be strange that people then used weapons of lost civilizations as weapons.
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Old 2007-08-28, 23:24   Link #1396
Frankenstein's Clare
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Well you and C2F can have an argument about it then and I'll agree with whoever seems like they understood the raws better. Frankly I hope it's Chaos because I thought that color coordination bit was pretty good.
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Old 2007-08-29, 00:01   Link #1397
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^

I don't wanna Especially when I myself have no real clue and was just quoting off other moon-speakers
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Old 2007-08-29, 00:20   Link #1398
Frankenstein's Clare
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Bah, so much for oppositional fact-finding. I guess we can try this UK-style, 'cooperate' and stuff. I guess I was figuring Alhazred because the relics remind me of jewel seeds and the cradle is built around the things (maybe?), but like I was saying I mostly just read stuff on blogs.

Hey Chaos did you become a Chrono/Carim shipper while I was away or is that icon just for coolnesses' sake?
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Old 2007-08-29, 00:24   Link #1399
Nightengale
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Bah, so much for oppositional fact-finding. I guess we can try this UK-style, 'cooperate' and stuff.

Hey Chaos did you become a Chrono/Carim shipper while I was away or is that icon just for coolnesses' sake?
I'm 90% confident that Yuuno himself cited that Cradle was already a Lost Logia even back in the days of Ancient Belka, alongside the fact that he added the possibility of Cradle being of Alhazred origin, everything points towards the Cradle not being created by Ancient Belka, but merely used by them.

As for Relics, we still don't know what they are, other than there being the existence of over 75 Relics minimum, the term Relic Weapon were cited so for Lutecia/Zest, and that apparently Relic #11 can restore 'that person.' Fate/Shari clearly stated that Relics are unorthodox as far as crystallized based energies go, so they're not exactly all the same with Jewel Seeds.
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Old 2007-08-29, 00:58   Link #1400
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Hey Chaos did you become a Chrono/Carim shipper while I was away or is that icon just for coolnesses' sake?

Call it... Advertising
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