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Old 2007-04-05, 10:06   Link #41
Kotengu
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Itachi is blind without sharingan

Kakashi has 3rd teir sharingan and all of the benifits. His isn't 'better' than any other third teir. they all do the same thing. The reason he is 'better' than old school 'standard' sharingan useres is cuz he has other skillz besides sharingan, and he's pretty smart(also prolly alot of uchiha didn't make it to 3rd teir). The Weakness of Kakashi using sharingan is that it takes an extreme toll on his body. Most of the time we see kakashi use any form of sharingan for more than 30 seconds he's out for at least a week. Where as Itachi and Sasuke use it in their battles regularly without side effects. I also assume this would apply double to MS as even uchiha have side effects from it.

This makes me think of something interesting as well. Sharingan is awsome and lets you see moves ahead of time. This makes me think that there is no reason Itachi's eyesight would be bad WHEN USING REGULAR SHARINGAN, but if he was using his regular eyes, he might not even be able to see at all. This would explain why he keeps sharingan on all the time. If sasuke figures this out and renderes MS innefective, itachi's screwed cuz Sasuke can prolly just prolong the fight. This would also explain why Itachi doesn't want to drain below 20-30% chakra just from fighting. A jinkuri's regeneration ablility would be awsome for itachi's eyes. . . . Kakashi's words come back to haunt (greater jutsu, greater drawbacks)

As For Juugo, what Sasuke wants is MS (prolly), but I doubt he told Oro about the requirements, otherwise oro might have set it up for sasuke to kill naruto. Instead If he can somehow simulate the requirements chemically of killing the closeset thing to him (with juugo's crazy enzymes) then he might be able to get MS without killing anyone(specifically naruto).
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Old 2007-04-05, 10:11   Link #42
Deathwing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
No...actually Kakashi is a genius and probably controls his Sharingan better then most Uchiha's in history... it's just that because he isnt born with the Uchiha blood his Sharingan takes up more chakra then regular born Uchiha's.

Naruto: Yeah Kakashi's really strong..
Smarter then Shikamaru
Better nose then Kiba
Better Sharingan then Sasuke

Besides Kakashi's experience with the Sharingan is alot more then Itachi & Sasuke..
i think that is filler and even if it isn't itachi could destroy kakashi no contest
plus after the time skip we arent sure what sasuke can do but if naruto passed him then it is safe to assume sasuke did as well
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Old 2007-04-05, 10:16   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
i think that is filler and even if it isn't itachi could destroy kakashi no contest
Kakashi did say that He couldn't beat Itachi by himself, but He's not stupid either. He took out Itahci clone WAY easier than team Guy took down Kisame clone. I think Kakashi also knows that Itachi might not be able to use his regular eyes which would be the only reason Itachi would want to kill him for knowing MS' secret (as he would then be defeted when he went blind from not being able to keep sharingan on).

If it was Kakashi and Sasuke vs. Itachi, I don't think Itachi would last very long. (or even want to fight them)
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Old 2007-04-05, 12:03   Link #44
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
i think that is filler and even if it isn't itachi could destroy kakashi no contest
plus after the time skip we arent sure what sasuke can do but if naruto passed him then it is safe to assume sasuke did as well
I am sure it was in the manga aswell....i'll give a check....if i reply to this then it means i was wrong if not i was right...
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Old 2007-04-05, 12:18   Link #45
astayanax
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Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post
Kakashi did say that He couldn't beat Itachi by himself, but He's not stupid either. He took out Itahci clone WAY easier than team Guy took down Kisame clone. I think Kakashi also knows that Itachi might not be able to use his regular eyes which would be the only reason Itachi would want to kill him for knowing MS' secret (as he would then be defeted when he went blind from not being able to keep sharingan on).

If it was Kakashi and Sasuke vs. Itachi, I don't think Itachi would last very long. (or even want to fight them)
I am not too sure about this. Both Orochimaru (who we can agree was waaaay better than Kakashi) and Sasuke acknowledged that they were simply no match against Itachi even if they tag team him... yet this was the same Orochimaru who for most part was laughing at 4 tailed Naruto.

The reason why everyone had doubts about Itachi's supposingly inhuman strength/skill is Kishi always protrayed him as a cautious person who runs first, and question later. We have yet to see Itachi owning anyone to the extent of him gaining his reputation and if Kishi wants this character to keep this reputation, he has to create a scene soon that would prove Itachi's dominance.

I am not a fan of this spoiler if it is true. It is yet another crippling blow to Orochimaru as all of us thought all along that the CS was something he invented... but yet it is another 'blood trait' (if you want to call it that) that he stole for his own usage.
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Last edited by Hunter; 2007-04-06 at 04:12. Reason: don't double post
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Old 2007-04-05, 12:23   Link #46
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
I am not too sure about this. Both Orochimaru (who we can agree was waaaay better than Kakashi) and Sasuke acknowledged that they were simply no match against Itachi even if they tag team him... yet this was the same Orochimaru who for most part was laughing at 4 tailed Naruto.

The reason why everyone had doubts about Itachi's supposingly inhuman strength/skill is Kishi always protrayed him as a cautious person who runs first, and question later. We have yet to see Itachi owning anyone to the extent of him gaining his reputation and if Kishi wants this character to keep this reputation, he has to create a scene soon that would prove Itachi's dominance.
I agree...that's why (if i am being really honest) i dont like him. He hits and runs..to me it's like cowardly behaviour and ofcourse his calm arrogant attitude.

But at the same time....i get the same feeling from Jiraiya or...the other Sannin....but especially from Jiraiya. I got a feeling that he is extremly important in Naruto and may be the strongest regardless of what has been said or happend.

But that's just me..
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Old 2007-04-05, 12:33   Link #47
Deathwing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post
Kakashi did say that He couldn't beat Itachi by himself, but He's not stupid either. He took out Itahci clone WAY easier than team Guy took down Kisame clone. I think Kakashi also knows that Itachi might not be able to use his regular eyes which would be the only reason Itachi would want to kill him for knowing MS' secret (as he would then be defeted when he went blind from not being able to keep sharingan on).

If it was Kakashi and Sasuke vs. Itachi, I don't think Itachi would last very long. (or even want to fight them)
i wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption itachi is probably the most powerful character we have been introduced to and he can use the MS numeous times in a short period while if kakashi uses it once he is drained and if he misses he is screwed also when it comes down to pure technique itachi knows more
also itachi is a sick bastard (untill futher notice) so he dosn't need a reason to kill them
i cant say anyting on sasukes behalf cause i have no idea what he can do post time skip (hope we will see him do something soon )

Quote:
Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
I am not too sure about this. Both Orochimaru (who we can agree was waaaay better than Kakashi) and Sasuke acknowledged that they were simply no match against Itachi even if they tag team him... yet this was the same Orochimaru who for most part was laughing at 4 tailed Naruto.

The reason why everyone had doubts about Itachi's supposingly inhuman strength/skill is Kishi always protrayed him as a cautious person who runs first, and question later. We have yet to see Itachi owning anyone to the extent of him gaining his reputation and if Kishi wants this character to keep this reputation, he has to create a scene soon that would prove Itachi's dominance.
well he dominated while he was fighting sasuke and kakashi in the village but we really haven't seen him go all out (i am looking forward to that)
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Old 2007-04-05, 12:59   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
No...actually Kakashi is a genius and probably controls his Sharingan better then most Uchiha's in history... it's just that because he isnt born with the Uchiha blood his Sharingan takes up more chakra then regular born Uchiha's.

Naruto: Yeah Kakashi's really strong..
Smarter then Shikamaru
Better nose then Kiba
Better Sharingan then Sasuke

Besides Kakashi's experience with the Sharingan is alot more then Itachi & Sasuke..
That is ridiculous .. Itachi contorol Sharingan better then Kakshi and now Sasuke control Sharingan better ..

He is not smarter then Shikamaru and he dont have better nose then Kiba and ofc he wont have better sharingan then any Uchiha .. he just said it becouse Kakashis expirience is battles.

But i dont understand how Kakashi have Mangekyou
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Old 2007-04-05, 13:12   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
But i dont understand how Kakashi have Mangekyou
I didn't understand that either. I a guessing it shows just as smart kakashi is. he unlocked something he shouldn't be able to. the same reason why the sharingran takes a great toll on him might be the reason why he didn't have to kill his best friend.
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Old 2007-04-05, 14:29   Link #50
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
That is ridiculous .. Itachi contorol Sharingan better then Kakshi and now Sasuke control Sharingan better ..

He is not smarter then Shikamaru and he dont have better nose then Kiba and ofc he wont have better sharingan then any Uchiha .. he just said it becouse Kakashis expirience is battles.

But i dont understand how Kakashi have Mangekyou
Because most of the things that have been said proves to be a lie or nonsense.

And about Kakashi being better at .... i think Naruto ment it in a way of experience indeed.

He said literaly: Heh Kakashi-sensei is really very strong.
Smarter then Shikamaru...better nose then Kiba...a better Sharingan then Sasuke...Taijutsu even faster then thick-brows.

Page 13, chapter 256...it's NOT a filler
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Old 2007-04-05, 15:07   Link #51
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If the cursed seal helped Sasuke in some way to overcome Orochimaru and control him, then the new guy can play a big part to rescue Orochimaru if something goes wrong with the cursed seal. It would be really fun to see Sasuke's cursed seal failing to activate suddenly (due to the new guy) against a strong opponent and meeting his doom day unexpectedly early, but, unfortunately, it will not happen anytime soon.

And, still there is no news on Kabuto. At the least, Jiraiya should have heard about Orochimaru by now, and hopefully reached Konoha to give the news to Tsunade. I hope, there would be at least one panel to let us know about either Kabuto or Jiraiya, or someone important (in other words, anyone other than the Bleach characters).
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Old 2007-04-05, 15:10   Link #52
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I know that is not filler but that is only Narutos words which dont mean that he really is all that .. becouse he dont have more then 200 IQ like Shikamaru .. And he dont have better nose and smell then Kiba .. and about Sharingan naruto said 2,5 years before, becouse he dont have clue what can Sasuke now with Sharingan.

Like u said now my papa is stronger then Taison that dont mean he is really stronger becouse he is stronger then me.

We saw that Itachi is better Sharingan user when they confront in Konoha.
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Old 2007-04-05, 15:23   Link #53
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Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
I know that is not filler but that is only Narutos words which dont mean that he really is all that .. becouse he dont have more then 200 IQ like Shikamaru .. And he dont have better nose and smell then Kiba .. and about Sharingan naruto said 2,5 years before, becouse he dont have clue what can Sasuke now with Sharingan.
You don't have to be as good as Shikamaru to be able to compare him to another character. And, you may not even tell the difference between characters, except for some extraordinary situations. In other words, if there is not a highly noticeable difference between characters, you may not be able to notice that difference. It is the same for other type of features for the other characters.

And, Kakashi's sharingan can be considered as being better than Sasuke's. You cannot argue against, if someone tells you that Sasuke still does not have MS, whereas Kakashi has already attained it. Also, anything Sasuke can do, it is also possible for Kakashi to do.

Lastly, even if you forget about MS, what Naruto said can almost ensure us one thing, that Kakashi's basic sharingan abilities without MS is better than Sasuke's sharingan from 2.5 years ago. Notice the word basic. That also means you can neither validate nor invalidate the claims regarding who has the better sharingan abilities right now. As we all know what sharingan can do is a matter of how puff the magic dragon impacts the brain, anything is possible at this point regarding both Kakashi and Sasuke, and regarding what both can do.
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Old 2007-04-05, 15:33   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Because most of the things that have been said proves to be a lie or nonsense.

And about Kakashi being better at .... i think Naruto ment it in a way of experience indeed.

He said literaly: Heh Kakashi-sensei is really very strong.
Smarter then Shikamaru...better nose then Kiba...a better Sharingan then Sasuke...Taijutsu even faster then thick-brows.

Page 13, chapter 256...it's NOT a filler

I don't post here very often but I read through the thread on a regular basis. I remember reading that as well, and i would have to agree with most of it. I think the Sasuke Sharingan reference would have to be about how well Sasuke used it 3 yrs prior as at that chapter of the manga they had not run into him sinse hel left to the sound village.
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Old 2007-04-05, 15:38   Link #55
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OK i will put this simple .. becouse u explain something without any reason ..

-Shikamaru is smarter then Kakashi becouse he have more IQ then Kakashi ..
-Kiba have better sense for smell then Kakashi becouse he can do 1000 times more smell sense..
-And at last Sasuke have better sharingan becouse he have 2 eyes and he is from Uchiha ..

He didnt mean literaly "better" he meant that Kakashi use better all that in battle which is only point of expirience in battle ..
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:05   Link #56
Mr. Johnny 5
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OK i will put this simple .. becouse u explain something without any reason ..

-Shikamaru is smarter then Kakashi becouse he have more IQ then Kakashi ..
-Kiba have better sense for smell then Kakashi becouse he can do 1000 times more smell sense..
-And at last Sasuke have better sharingan becouse he have 2 eyes and he is from Uchiha ..

He didnt mean literaly "better" he meant that Kakashi use better all that in battle which is only point of expirience in battle ..
That is your opinion....i stated mine...the manga we read is the same....how we understand things of it or assume things after reading it will always be different.

He could've ment things more then just battle experience...but...you stated your opinion and i did mine...it is pointless to continue this pointless discussion of the past. Especially if this isnt the proper thread for it.

Regardless of the april things...there are less spoilers then usually...well atleast the last few weeks...and it's thursday already...there will be a raw this week right?
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:13   Link #57
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I understand when opinions r diferent .. but this is funny ..

IF Kakashi is smarter then Shikamaru then he have more then 300 IQ and he wouldnt admire Shikamarus tactics when they went on mission against Hidan and Kakuzu !

IF Kakashi have better smell then Kiba then he wouldnt use dogs to track, and he would beat Zabuza in mist and he would find Naruto without dog at waterfall!

IF he have better Sharingan he wouldnt be pwned by Itachi Sharingan !
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:16   Link #58
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Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
-Shikamaru is smarter then Kakashi becouse he have more IQ then Kakashi ..

-Kiba have better sense for smell then Kakashi becouse he can do 1000 times more smell sense..
He might be, but most probably the way Kakashi used his intelligence was better than Shikamaru's. Shikamaru can have the greatest IQ of all the people in the world, but he doesn't have the strength to back it up. On the other hand, Kakashi has sufficient level of strength to be able to make best use of his IQ. In other words, the application of IQ in real battle situations can favor Kakashi. It is logical. Similar words can be said for Kiba.
Quote:
-And at last Sasuke have better sharingan becouse he have 2 eyes and he is from Uchiha ..
Doesn't matter how many eyes he has. Kakashi's sharingan has evolved to the final stage of Sharingan, and that can be considered as having the better Sharingan compared to Sasuke's. When Sasuke gains that MS, you can sstart including other factors, such as the efficiency of Sharingan usage.
Quote:
He didnt mean literaly "better" he meant that Kakashi use better all that in battle which is only point of expirience in battle ..
Does it matter*? What you have only has importance in the way you use it. If someone can use it better, then he can be considered better. (* That is only true if the character can give that impression even under normal conditions, in other words not having a difference like Hidan-Kakashi)

Even if Shikamaru gains the same level of experience as Kakashi, in a typical fight, he may not be able to overcome the level Kakashi incorporates his intelligence to his other talents and abilities, making him the better. That might also be true for Kiba or others, if they also do not have strength to make use of their abilities at/above the level of Kakashi's.

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Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
IF he have better Sharingan he wouldnt be pwned by Itachi Sharingan !
When did that happen? 2.5 years before the time that dialogue took place. And, whom did Naruto compare Kakashi to? Sasuke, the same guy who was also pwned by Itachi sharingan, and not once.
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:34   Link #59
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@Sazelyt

U again explain something that i said and then again u said something stupid ..

U didnt mention anything about Kiba so i will assume that i was right there ..

And Naruto said better then Sasukes sharingan and he didnt see him 2.5 years and now u question me why i meantion Itachi when that happened 2.5 years before .. I meantioned Itachi becouse Johny said that Kakashi have better sharingan then Itachi..

1.Shikamaru have bigger IQ and that mean he is smarter! So Naruto failed in statement..
2.Kiba have better smell then Kakashi (becouse Kakashi cant track without dogs or cant smell in mist when he fought Zabuza.. And Kiba can fight without open eyes)! So Narutos statement failed again..
3.Kakashi cant have better sharingan then 2 sharingan eyes, he can use better then Sasuke but that was 2.5 years ago, and Naruto didnt see him 3 years from then! So Narutos statement failed again ..

So if u find that 1 of these tree are true, then Naruto conclusions r wrong about everything ..
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:37   Link #60
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we need more spoilers....it's thursday.....
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