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Old 2007-04-05, 16:41   Link #61
Sasuke_Bateman
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Originally Posted by Inferno Phoenyx View Post
we need more spoilers....it's thursday.....
Very true , we're so bored we're talking about weird topic that doesn't even matter anymore Damn we're bored, Even a fake spoiler would be nice.
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:46   Link #62
fatez
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What the hell does a dumbass naruto knows about anything? To use naruto words a bible or guide is like asking a blind person what's ahead of him. All evidences point towards that Shikamaru is the smartest, kiba with the best sense of smell, and Itachi owns everybody with the sharingan.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:12   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatez View Post
What the hell does a dumbass naruto knows about anything? To use naruto words a bible or guide is like asking a blind person what's ahead of him. All evidences point towards that Shikamaru is the smartest, kiba with the best sense of smell, and Itachi owns everybody with the sharingan.
Altough i agree that shikamaru is the smartest and of course itachi owns everybody with sharingran, and after timeskip sasuke would own everyone except itachi with sharingran also.

but i think the fact that kakashi's after is dubed white fang. and kakashi summons dogs suggest that he too has a refined sense of smell.

I think when naruto was making the comparison he was comparing kakashi to the genins before the time skip. naruto hasn't seen how much they have improved. in that case kakashi was probably better then all of the genins. now however naruto's words are debatable. espiacially seeing how new generations always surpass previous ones.


and yes it has been very boring lately.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:15   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Very true , we're so bored we're talking about weird topic that doesn't even matter anymore Damn we're bored, Even a fake spoiler would be nice.
lol. The Sharingan/Kakashi topic took like 2 pages........ yeah, that fake poiler would be nice about now.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:25   Link #65
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Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
@Sazelyt U didnt mention anything about Kiba so i will assume that i was right there ..
Kiba is not different than Shikamaru, so whatever is valid for Shikamaru, it is also valid for Kiba. By the way, I mentioned about Kiba, as being similar.

Quote:
1.Shikamaru have bigger IQ and that mean he is smarter! So Naruto failed in statement..
2.Kiba have better smell then Kakashi (becouse Kakashi cant track without dogs or cant smell in mist when he fought Zabuza.. And Kiba can fight without open eyes)! So Narutos statement failed again..
3.Kakashi cant have better sharingan then 2 sharingan eyes, he can use better then Sasuke but that was 2.5 years ago, and Naruto didnt see him 3 years from then! So Narutos statement failed again ..

So if u find that 1 of these tree are true, then Naruto conclusions r wrong about everything ..
You are trying to discuss about *how* Naruto perceived it, you are trying to talk about Naruto *perceiving* it, and you are trying to tell us that Naruto is incorrect. No. Naruto only told us what he observed, and as I mentioned earlier, what we perceive regarding the character makes us consider him better. It is as simple as that. Naruto made an observation and it doesn't mean it is incorrect.

There is no way that you can invalidate Naruto's comparison between Kakashi and Sasuke by just saying one is Uchiha the other is not. You cannot invalidate what he says about Shikamaru, as both are considered genius, and we do not have an IQ measure for Kakashi, yet. Also Kakashi, at that time, had MS and Sasuke did not have. How do you consider this as failure is beyond my comprehension.

Quote:
And Naruto said better then Sasukes sharingan and he didnt see him 2.5 years and now u question me why i meantion Itachi when that happened 2.5 years before .. I meantioned Itachi becouse Johny said that Kakashi have better sharingan then Itachi..
Naruto talked about the Sasuke he knew. You may not know but Sasuke at that fight reached the max of his *basic* Sharingan abilities (not mind-reading or anything else was known at that time). So, in that way, what he gave us as his opinion can be considered as logical even if it may not be correct. And, the level of correctness of that statement cannot be determined by you *just saying so*.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:44   Link #66
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Yes naruto said all that, it was accurate from what naruto knew of at that point. his sense of sasukes sharingan was based on his fight and observations of sasuke. His pereeception of shika's intellegience was based on 2.5 years ago as well.

How do these stand now? I do not know. but apparently kakashi figured out mangekyo sharingan, learned literally 1000s of jutsus can perform all elemental manipulations. And figured how to apply naruto's kage bunshin demon chakra and yamaoto's suppression ability to make a viable way for naruto to train years in days. SO to say he is as intelligeint or maybe moreso than shika, may in fact be accurate, remember there is many types of intelliegience.

Kibas sense of smell maybe 1000 times normal people , but who knows what kakashi 's was, or is, his father and himself were asociated with wolves 9whitefang) and he showed teh ability to smell blood when he was a kid. It isnt impossible that his sense of smell is on par with kiba, they may even be related for all we know.

Kakshi's sharingan is better than sasuke to every ones current knowledge, and in that battle he proved he couldkeep sharingan on for long periods, that battle in the manga was supposed to be a long one. and they gave the impression he had sharingan the whole time. he apparently has increased his regular sharingan stamina, although mangekyo wipes him, and takes a long time to do. But yeah his sharingan is definately better or used better than sasukes was, and the fact he has third level implies its better than sasuke's now, unless he has developed it.


Anyhow it doesnt matter it was in the past.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:48   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno Phoenyx View Post
lol. The Sharingan/Kakashi topic took like 2 pages........ yeah, that fake poiler would be nice about now.
yah, definately a real or fake pic would provide some proper discussion.
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:49   Link #68
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so umm why doesnt it come out on thursdays anymore?
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Old 2007-04-05, 17:54   Link #69
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Yeah, my question too...... >

ugh... I think we're up to about 3 1/2 pages about Kakashi/Sharingan and comparison between Kiba, Shika., and ummmm.... Lee?


Edit: Oh, I forgot Sasuke.....
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Old 2007-04-05, 18:04   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
That is your opinion....i stated mine...the manga we read is the same....how we understand things of it or assume things after reading it will always be different.
I have to say that he, most likely, is right... though it's very hard to read his posts due to the gram. mistakes but that's a different thing^^
I mean Kakashi never showed anything of the complex structure of Shikamaru's moves, though being very smart, never proved that he has a good nose by himself, e.g. Zabuza-Battle (or even the dogs. But I'm not a veterinarian so who knows ). the only thing I admit is the sharingan thing. BACK THEN...
Because now we don't know. Last time they faced Sasuke Kakashi was not around.
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Old 2007-04-05, 18:10   Link #71
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Originally Posted by yinstro View Post
Kibas sense of smell maybe 1000 times normal people , but who knows what kakashi 's was, or is, his father and himself were asociated with wolves 9whitefang) and he showed teh ability to smell blood when he was a kid. It isnt impossible that his sense of smell is on par with kiba, they may even be related for all we know.
U cant be serious ..

I agree that Kakashi is smart and i said that, and i agree that Kakashi knew better to use sharingan ..

But he is not smarter then Shikamaru and Sasuke now know better to use sharingan then Kakashi, except that Kakashi have Mangekyou sharingan. And he is not near Kibas scent.

Now can u Sazelyt and Yinstro answear me on this questions .. With Yes or No .. just that !
Do u really think that ..
Kakashi is smarter then Shikamaru ?
Kakashi have better smell then Kiba ?

Last edited by SpiRo; 2007-04-05 at 18:50.
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Old 2007-04-05, 18:38   Link #72
Sasuke_Bateman
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This is pathetic.

Not one pic?

Not one confirm summary?

I bet Naruto isn't in this Chapter

Naruto fans must be pissed, they Hijacked it >_<
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Old 2007-04-05, 19:14   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Very true , we're so bored we're talking about weird topic that doesn't even matter anymore Damn we're bored, Even a fake spoiler would be nice.
When the real spoiler comes in, the fakes always stop. So we are out of luck.

Weird topic to come up. I never took what Naruto said about Kakashi seriously. Naruto was engaging in what we call hero worship. Kind of like when you are young and think your dad is better at everything than anyone else.

Shippuden seems to be about the younger generation passing the older one. So Kakashi can't hold off the kids anyway. The last arc likely confirmed Shikamaru as the smartest. Not only was Kakashi letting him run the show, but his shadow jutsus have gotten strong enough to help him carry out his plans. We haven't see Kiba yet, but he has likely enhanced his ablity to smell with more chakra. Lee probably trains 15 hours a day in just taijutsu. And I think we have seen enough of Sasuke now to know what the sharingan can do in the hands of a true Uchiha.
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Old 2007-04-05, 20:38   Link #74
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
You are trying to discuss about *how* Naruto perceived it, you are trying to talk about Naruto *perceiving* it, and you are trying to tell us that Naruto is incorrect. No. Naruto only told us what he observed, and as I mentioned earlier, what we perceive regarding the character makes us consider him better. It is as simple as that. Naruto made an observation and it doesn't mean it is incorrect.

There is no way that you can invalidate Naruto's comparison between Kakashi and Sasuke by just saying one is Uchiha the other is not. You cannot invalidate what he says about Shikamaru, as both are considered genius, and we do not have an IQ measure for Kakashi, yet. Also Kakashi, at that time, had MS and Sasuke did not have. How do you consider this as failure is beyond my comprehension.
One question, do you consider Naruto's remarks sufficient to determine he was correct?
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Old 2007-04-05, 20:43   Link #75
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ugh I'm dying from the lack of spoilers. lol. Someone just make up a story.
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Old 2007-04-05, 21:04   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
One question, do you consider Naruto's remarks sufficient to determine he was correct?
I am in-between. It can be correct or incorrect for everyone or for only one. It is an observation made by Naruto based on what he has observed regarding other characters. He didn't keep that information to himself, and he wasn't corrected by someone there who is supposed to be much more intelligent and much more knowledged on some characters there (such as Shikamaru and Kiba). So, I am saying, why not? It is possible. Note that I am talking about the perceived talent (hence, it is not an objective scale).

If you can bring a specific example that will change the perception regarding one character - leading to a single direction -, you are welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
Now can u Sazelyt and Yinstro answear me on this questions .. With Yes or No .. just that !
Do u really think that ..
Kakashi is smarter then Shikamaru ?
Kakashi have better smell then Kiba ?
Let me answer by asking you a question. Do you have any information from the manga that says otherwise?
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Old 2007-04-05, 21:07   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I am in-between. It can be correct or incorrect for everyone or for only one. It is an observation made by Naruto based on what he has observed regarding other characters. He didn't keep that information to himself, and he wasn't corrected by someone there who is supposed to be much more intelligent and much more knowledged on some characters there (such as Shikamaru and Kiba). So, I am saying, why not? It is possible. Note that I am talking about the perceived talent (hence, it is not an objective scale).

If you can bring a specific example that will change the perception regarding one character - leading to a single direction -, you are welcome.

I was just asking to see what you tough about it, as I myself am in-between.
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Old 2007-04-05, 21:13   Link #78
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there arent many posts now....
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Old 2007-04-05, 21:15   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Let me answer by asking you a question. Do you have any information from the manga that says otherwise?
So u cant answear simple question with YES or NO, becouse u know the truth ..

And did u ever saw how Kakashi plan 200 more tactics in head so he can use them if first fail, like Shikamaru can ? No

Or that he can find ppl without using eyes and dogs like Kiba ? No

Well for me whole manga say otherwise.. if u wanna believe in santa claus becouse your mama told u he exist then ok. I wouldnt argue with u if u just answeared with YES or NO i just wanted to see your opinion without any reference information.
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Old 2007-04-05, 21:20   Link #80
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Meh, Naruto was obviously making a very biased observation. He has not seen Shikamaru, Lee, Sasuke or even Kiba (We still haven't) in the 2.5 years gap.

It is obvious that Kakashi, as jounin, should still be considered the "sensei" and in a position of authority compared to the level of the Genins and the IQ of pre-timeskip Shikamaru.

Now for having seen, or at least heard of how Shikamaru defeated the immortal Hidan, he might've reviewed the statement Kakashi was more intelligent than our genius chuunin. He might also have reviewed his Sharingan skill observations in comparing Sasuke and Kakashi.

I mean, that Sharingan comparison is a very hard one:

He sees Kakashi unleash MS and open a sort of blackhole that almosts one shot an Akatsuki, and he sees Sasuke in his mind, supressing the Kyuub's chakra.

Both showed pretty impressive Sharingan skills.

Quote:
DeDe: I never took what Naruto said about Kakashi seriously. Naruto was engaging in what we call hero worship. Kind of like when you are young and think your dad is better at everything than anyone else.
100% agree.

-Lee didn't do anything during the rescue Gaara arc (Well, he fought against some sort of double)
-Kiba we haven't even heard of his ninja missions.

-----------------------------

If you are looking from our point of view, after seeing all the fights and comparing them:

1. It does seem Shikamaru surpasses Kakashi in IQ.
2. There is no clear skill gap between Kakashi and Sasuke's sharingans.
3. Kiba we know nothing of his growth.
4. It seems rather far-fetched that Kakashi can rival a 4th gate activation taijutsu.

That's about it, imo.
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