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Old 2007-04-06, 04:39   Link #1
valtruist
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Could Itachi's supposed "massacre of his clan" be a lie?

What if Itachi wasn't the one that massacred his clan members and it was Uchiha Madara who did it. Assuming Madara also possesses the Mangekyou Sharingan, that was probably why Itachi knew and told Sasuke that there would be 3 MS users if Sasuke manages to learn it.

Knowing that he was no match for Madara, he decides to come up with the story about him being the one that did it in hope that Sasuke would eventually surpass him and take revenge on Madara.

Only loophole to this is that it'll probably be difficult for Sasuke to believe Itachi.

Your thoughts on this?

Please excuse my bad grammar (or malapropism :P), English isn't my first language
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Old 2007-04-06, 05:13   Link #2
monster
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Uh, the Uchiha clan was nearly wiped out leaving only two known survivors. I don't think most people, including Sasuke, would need such a lie to give him the motivation to get stronger. In fact, since Sasuke admired his brother, their bond, as two the last of the Uchiha brothers, would probably be enough to get them to train together to be stronger.

And besides, if there is such a powerful person who killed his clan, I'm pretty sure Itachi would tell the Hokage and the others as a member of ANBU and a ninja of their village.
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Old 2007-04-06, 06:30   Link #3
sx3
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that would be interesting but i doubt it, i wish we had more on madara, kishi makes kyubbi mention madara once and we never hear of him again
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Old 2007-04-06, 08:18   Link #4
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I still like the idea that Madara IS the Kitsune...

I don't see any reason to doubt that it was Itachi who did the killing, but his motives are definately in question (setting aside his whole "wanting to test himself" part).
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Old 2007-04-06, 09:14   Link #5
MobiuS
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I love how they mention other random characters and noone cares ... but as soon as anyone says Uchiha ... everyone spends the next 2 years of their life speculating on someone we would never see.
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Old 2007-04-06, 10:32   Link #6
othafa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
I love how they mention other random characters and noone cares ... but as soon as anyone says Uchiha ... everyone spends the next 2 years of their life speculating on someone we would never see.
Do you have an example of "random characters" that they haven't expanded upon but have been mentioned? It seems to me that when they mention a character, they tend to mean something by it.
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Old 2007-04-06, 11:11   Link #7
MobiuS
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White Fang.
1st and 2nd Hokage. (and we even got to see them fight too ..)
Kazekage (also got to see him figh puppet-mode)
Danzou
Akatsuki Leader (even after we saw him too)

None of those characters combined brought up as much hype as there was when Kyuubi mentioned Uchiha Madara. I mean .. we havent seen the guy ... we dont know what he can or can't do ... whether he even had MS or not ... what happened to him ... nothing.

We just heard his name and theres 1000 threads on who he is. As far as we know, he could just be the first guy to ever develop sharingan. But of course not ... because hes Uchiha there must be insane hype-up.

The afformentioned characters did more for Konoha and changed / created more than we even know about Madara, yet Madara gets more hype-up that Kobe Bryant. -_-

EDIT: I would have listed Yondaime but ... I know all the Yondie fans would jump down my throat so Im avoiding listing him.
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Old 2007-04-06, 11:24   Link #8
othafa
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The first three of those characters were definately expanded upon. As far as the other two, we can rest assured that they will be expanded upon. The point I was trying to make is that they wouldn't have mentioned Madara unless they intended to expand upon him in some regard. Also, the amount of interest in speculating about a given character is, by nature, inversely proportional to the amount of information given about that character. We know far more even about AL and Danzou than we do about Uchiha Madara, which leads people to be more interested in the mystery.
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Old 2007-04-06, 11:47   Link #9
Gattzu
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Originally Posted by sx3 View Post
that would be interesting but i doubt it, i wish we had more on madara, kishi makes kyubbi mention madara once and we never hear of him again
Kishi is prolly gonna expand the naruto series with adding Madara to the story after Akatuski has been destroyed.
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Old 2007-04-06, 11:49   Link #10
SpiRo
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Well Kyuubi didnt mention, 1st and 2nd Hokage, Kazekage, Danzou, Akatsuki Leader.

So i would say Uchiha Madara is something becouse demon know about him and remmembers him ..

And as Othafa said we know something about everyone, yet about Uchiha Madara we dont know enything except his name.

It would be little stupid if happen that Itachi didnt kill his Clan.
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Old 2007-04-06, 13:14   Link #11
MobiuS
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So if Shukaku mentions the dude who sealed him in a lamp or something ... we must automatically assume he might the the AL, and that he killed the Uchiha clan, and he prolly created the first puppet and first grain of sand in the whole Naruto-realm?

Ok then.
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Old 2007-04-06, 13:43   Link #12
SpiRo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
So if Shukaku mentions the dude who sealed him in a lamp or something ... we must automatically assume he might the the AL, and that he killed the Uchiha clan, and he prolly created the first puppet and first grain of sand in the whole Naruto-realm?

Ok then.
NO! I just said it your problem .. when u see Uchiha u flip off. And i dont care why is that ..

We know about Kazekage all we should .. and we dont know anything about Madara even why is he mentioned ..

I rly dont know why r u so upset if someone make thread about Uchiha Madara .. but it is like, u make thread about Kazekage and i jump in and flame u becouse u didnt post about Madara right ?
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Old 2007-04-06, 17:17   Link #13
MobiuS
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No ... I dont mind a thread on Madara but PLEASE ... this is not a Madara thread. This is an Uchiha Massacre thread and the writer is supposing Madara did it and Itachi took credit for it. >_>
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Old 2007-04-06, 19:03   Link #14
SpiRo
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There there everything will be ok .. let the boy write what he want ^^ maybe he is right O_o
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Old 2007-04-06, 19:56   Link #15
bluemage77
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ok, maybe we can forget about this discussion and get some more ideas on the massacre?
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Old 2007-04-07, 00:13   Link #16
xPresagio
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I'm pretty sure that the massacre wasn't done just for Itachi to test his power/container, but rather for a larger purpose.

When a writer wants to state a fact/event, he just show the act, leaving no doubts about what happened. Here however, Kishi has been quite careful to avoid showing how it occurred, preferring to just side-step around it:

PERCEPTION:
-All the events presented to us, were done through Sasuke -someone that was not actually present when they ocurred.

-All the information we get, are shown through a mental jutsu. One where the owner has total control of what we see, hear, feel and experience. In other words, one that can easily modify/manipulate the concept according to Itachi's will.

BACKGROUND - Family

-We know for a fact, that Itachi was not in good terms with his father, and some other members (like the ones that were investigating the dead of his friend).
-Itachi said, that he didn't kill his friend. While it could be a lie, it would unnecessary, specially if he was already planning to wipe out the whole clan.
-We also know for a fact, that Itachi suffered the pressure of being an elite (genius) Uchiha, as well as being the first son of one of the clan's leaders.

BACKGROUND - Clan

-We know for a fact, that the supposedly "police and protectors" of Konoha, were not in good terms with the leader of the village - the Hokage. And we know it, because Sasuke's father said it: Itachi being accepted in ANBU was a extremely important event, that would help them to regain contact with the Third.

-We also know that Itachi started to act "strange" just after entering ANBU.

-We also know that some members of the clan were secretly reuniting under that tatami, and that only very few Uchihas knew about it. And that a paper there contained shocking information about the "true" purpose of the cursed bloodlike, the Sharingan.


BACKGROUND - Sasuke

-We get at least 3 scenes where Itachi truly cares about Sasuke. The most relevant one is, when he stops and surrender against the Uchiha's police, after hearing his little brother scream. This completely contradicts Itachi's explanation that he was just "acting" as a good brother.

-Itachi's hints that he -just like Sasuke- always has problems for being a genus. Yet, he insisted in continue such path and accept his fate for several years, until that time.

-And the most important one: When Sasuke gets near the back of the house, where his parents were dying, he suddenly hear a scream from Itachi's, imploring him not to get near. Why, if he truly was just a psycho that wanted to kill everyone? (I believe it was cut in the Anime)


-------------------------------------------
So, what can deduce from all those elements?

1. First and foremost, that Itachi is full of ****.
2. That something has recently happened, that put the clan in a bad light on Konoha.
(What great event had recently happened that affected the whole village?)
4. Itachi was not a psycho. Yet, he suffered a lot to meet expectations (just like Sasuke, and oddly enough, as Hinata).
5. Itachi, being in ANBU clearly got access to restricted information regarding his clan. (the Sharingan, older events, etc)

A theory is, that the 3rd asked Itachi, or he met someone else that make him search the hidden secrets of the Uchiha. He found the scroll and other elements -perhaps figure out that the clan has plans for him and his brother- and decided to stops their plans. His friend was probably part of the revelation. Once the clan found the betrayal, they attacked him, and the massacre occurred, perhaps unwillingly from his side.

He then for a moment doubted on whether to reveal or not what their lovely parents were planning to his little brother, and instead prepared a show to for Sasuke, taking the whole blame, as a way to harden and prepare him for a future endevour. One that Itachi -whom doesn't have such potential- won't be able to handle.


What is the true objective? Clearly Madara and Akatsuki are part of that.
And what was the event that put the clan in shame?

Do you remember how the story starts?
IF something truly dangerous was kept in the village, whom would be the best group of people to be in charge of his custody?

Also, if Itachi was just a random serial-killer, what would Sasuke gain (story wise) when he confronts him? He already consider Itachi one. So what else? Just kill him and he would return to Konoha and be happy forever? -Just some thoughts.
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Old 2007-04-07, 00:24   Link #17
MobiuS
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This is what I love reading. Not "omg itachi pwnage lololol haev mai babiz".

This is a well thoughtout theory. Im impressed.
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Old 2007-04-07, 00:28   Link #18
kheldorin
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Well, you can't expect Itachi to be babysitting Sasuke while he goes out for revenge. He probably cut ties with his brother for the same reason Sasuke cut ties with Naruto, he is a burden and a liability. If Sasuke went to Oro for power, perhaps Itachi went to Akatsuki for the same thing. They are brothers after all, and I think the steps they took in life would closely mirror each other.
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Old 2007-04-07, 01:42   Link #19
Deathwing
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well there is also the tengu theory ( i dont have the link to it but it is a really well thought out one)

or we can just take it at face value and itachi is just a nutjob
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Old 2007-04-07, 09:49   Link #20
xPresagio
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I know the Tengu theory and it's actually considered here. It's just that the topic centers on the massacre, not on the whole story behind the Uchiha/Sasuke so didn't elaborate on that.

As for that night, there are still other points, but will only mention one:

-Apparently, both elders and kids were also killed. Not something that a "fighter trying to tests his abilities" would be particularly interested into.

Did the manga actually show any children?

Was that self censorship or.. there weren't any to begin with (aside of Sasuke)?
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