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Old 2007-04-09, 21:08   Link #61
shikamaru_kun
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My opinion is that the manga is good.

That's probably more on topic then some of the other posts on this thread.

But more so, I've always been one of the theorists that think that it will end with the Naruto vs. Kyuubi fight, in which Naruto realises the only way to win is to use the Death God technique - thus starting the cycle once again

Leaving room for a sequel...

I think that Kishimoto is trying to build a better character out of Sasuke (eg. gaining a team etc.), so in the long run he would be able to have a good battle with Naruto - with more preparation than the Valley of the End fight.

,
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Old 2007-04-09, 21:19   Link #62
CeDeR
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i think it s becoming boring at least for me....time for new animes...IMHO
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Old 2007-04-10, 06:12   Link #63
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru_kun View Post
My opinion is that the manga is good.

That's probably more on topic then some of the other posts on this thread.

But more so, I've always been one of the theorists that think that it will end with the Naruto vs. Kyuubi fight, in which Naruto realises the only way to win is to use the Death God technique - thus starting the cycle once again

Leaving room for a sequel...

I think that Kishimoto is trying to build a better character out of Sasuke (eg. gaining a team etc.), so in the long run he would be able to have a good battle with Naruto - with more preparation than the Valley of the End fight.

,
Well i think that Kishimoto is trying to create a group of good guys (Naruto/Gaara) Sand & Konoha, a group that is neutral Sasuke with his team and a group of bad guys...Akatsuki.

I once posted this as a joke
Spoiler:

but i am starting to doubt whether that will be a joke or reality if things would keep up much longer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
Lemme ask this simple question.

Why does everyone who has a name that joined ANBU leave?

Oro, Kakashi, Itachi, etc.

As soon as they get good, they leave ANBU. Point? ANBU is like Ninja College.

Useful, but still doesnt prepare you for the real world literally.
To me it seems that people who lack socially, mentally or dont have any friends join ANBU. Kakashi joined ANBU after all he cared for died.

Jiraiya was also part of ANBU but i think that was after most of his own squad were split up (Yondaime already as Jounin and the others probably dead or Jounin/Chuunins)

And i think that soon after Tsunade & Orochimaru left the village he left aswell.
Itachi also became mentally insane after getting into ANBU so....ANBU must have a rough training or missions that makes people change like that.

Anyway doesnt it bother anyone that: Shurikens, Kawarimi, Stealth, Sneaky stuff have been replaced by DBZ one-on-one battles?
The more powerfull the shinobi the less tactics are used: Hokages, Sannin, Akatsuki, Kazekages. I would've expected the opposite..
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Old 2007-04-10, 09:41   Link #64
Rurouni Zeke
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Anyway doesnt it bother anyone that: Shurikens, Kawarimi, Stealth, Sneaky stuff have been replaced by DBZ one-on-one battles?
The more powerfull the shinobi the less tactics are used: Hokages, Sannin, Akatsuki, Kazekages. I would've expected the opposite..
I don't like it so much, but at the same time, I kinda understand why it is happening. The less powerful shinobi need to use a lot of tactics because they are weak and can't win otherwise. The powerful shinobi need to be shown as powerful, and therefore, they are often shown fighting with more power than tactics. I imagine it is very hard to find a balance between power display and sneaky stuff because the more powerful the ninja, the less they would NEED to sneak around because they can own their opponent anyway. I think it's more a matter of letting the characters' power levels start getting out of control than anything else.
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Old 2007-04-10, 12:08   Link #65
raikage
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
I think that the Kyuubi is the final villan and the strongest. He has been there since the beginning and probably at Naruto's end.



Not at all....in fact the story should be alot more about Naruto & the Kyuubi.
That is what Naruto is about....his origin and why he is in such a terrible position.

The fact that Akatsuki already have soo many beasts in such a short of time (about 7 or 8 out of 9) means that their time Akatsuki is running out.
They wont last much longer.

There are guys stronger out there....that is for sure (3rd MS user, other Mist Swordsmen) perhaps the killers of the 1st & 2nd Hokages?
And there is Orochimaru ofcourse somewhere within Sasuke.

Also ANBU are definetly bad ass. They are the REAL ninja's. Kiba, Tenten or Shino should join ANBU . And restore the reputation of ANBU.
To me, the Naruto/Kyuubi story is dormant (and honestly it wouldn't matter to me if it made its way back into the story or not. If it does, cool. If it doesn't, cool).

Naruto was an outcast because of Kyuubi...but now people accept him. Even Sakura, Jiraiya, Iruka, and Neji know he has a demon inside him and accept him nonetheless (can't remember if any of the other non-adults know). Kyuubi is also helping Naruto by offering power and IIRC hasn't had any, "When I get out..." type rants recently.

The rumored 3rd MS user may not even still be alive.

If the Shodaime and Nidaime Hokage were killed in combat, I find it somewhat doubtful that their killer is still alive -- even if the two had survived to this day, they'd be like a hundred years old.
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Old 2007-04-10, 12:33   Link #66
Rurouni Zeke
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Originally Posted by raikage View Post
Naruto was an outcast because of Kyuubi...but now people accept him. Even Sakura, Jiraiya, Iruka, and Neji know he has a demon inside him and accept him nonetheless (can't remember if any of the other non-adults know). Kyuubi is also helping Naruto by offering power and IIRC hasn't had any, "When I get out..." type rants recently.
This actually just reminded me of a problem/frustration I've had with part 2. In part 1, Jiraya kept preaching that Naruto needed to learn to control Kyuubi's power and use it willingly, and I assume that's what he was training Naruto to do during the timeskip. Then post-timeskip, suddenly Naruto is not supposed to use Kyuubi anymore. It makes the training with Jiraya look like kind of a waste of time.

Now people want to talk about how Naruto needs to get stronger without using Kyuubi's power at all. Why? I think it should be an asset. People can say he's less Naruto and more Kyuubi as the amount of power he uses increases, but the point is that he's supposed to be learning to control more and more of that power so that he IS still Naruto as the amount of Kyuubi chakra he uses increases. If he can't control level 4, then shouldn't he be working toward controlling it? Furthermore, why does not being able to control level 4 mean that he suddenly can no longer use levels 1-3, which he CAN control? Again, it makes me wonder what the point of Jiraya's training was. It would have been really cool to see something like Naruto using chakra arms to draw his opponent inward so that he can use Rasengan or fart in his face or something, but NOOO. No Kyuubi power at all now.

In summary, I think that if Kishimoto wanted to take the Kyuubi-less route, then he shouldn't have had Jiraya do all that talking about how Naruto needs to learn to control it and how he'll teach Naruto to do it. If Naruto was not intended to use Kyuubi, then why not just have Jiraya to train Naruto to become stronger without Kyuubi during the timeskip? Surely, the fruits of such training would be more useful now than the Kyuubi training was.
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Old 2007-04-10, 13:50   Link #67
Asianknight82
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Originally Posted by Rurouni Zeke View Post
This actually just reminded me of a problem/frustration I've had with part 2. In part 1, Jiraya kept preaching that Naruto needed to learn to control Kyuubi's power and use it willingly, and I assume that's what he was training Naruto to do during the timeskip. Then post-timeskip, suddenly Naruto is not supposed to use Kyuubi anymore. It makes the training with Jiraya look like kind of a waste of time.

Now people want to talk about how Naruto needs to get stronger without using Kyuubi's power at all. Why? I think it should be an asset. People can say he's less Naruto and more Kyuubi as the amount of power he uses increases, but the point is that he's supposed to be learning to control more and more of that power so that he IS still Naruto as the amount of Kyuubi chakra he uses increases. If he can't control level 4, then shouldn't he be working toward controlling it? Furthermore, why does not being able to control level 4 mean that he suddenly can no longer use levels 1-3, which he CAN control? Again, it makes me wonder what the point of Jiraya's training was. It would have been really cool to see something like Naruto using chakra arms to draw his opponent inward so that he can use Rasengan or fart in his face or something, but NOOO. No Kyuubi power at all now.

In summary, I think that if Kishimoto wanted to take the Kyuubi-less route, then he shouldn't have had Jiraya do all that talking about how Naruto needs to learn to control it and how he'll teach Naruto to do it. If Naruto was not intended to use Kyuubi, then why not just have Jiraya to train Naruto to become stronger without Kyuubi during the timeskip? Surely, the fruits of such training would be more useful now than the Kyuubi training was.
because Kishimoto all of a sudden decided that using kyuubi at lvl 4 would mean Naruto drastically shortening his life span...
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Old 2007-04-10, 15:50   Link #68
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by raikage View Post
To me, the Naruto/Kyuubi story is dormant (and honestly it wouldn't matter to me if it made its way back into the story or not. If it does, cool. If it doesn't, cool).

Naruto was an outcast because of Kyuubi...but now people accept him. Even Sakura, Jiraiya, Iruka, and Neji know he has a demon inside him and accept him nonetheless (can't remember if any of the other non-adults know). Kyuubi is also helping Naruto by offering power and IIRC hasn't had any, "When I get out..." type rants recently.

The rumored 3rd MS user may not even still be alive.

If the Shodaime and Nidaime Hokage were killed in combat, I find it somewhat doubtful that their killer is still alive -- even if the two had survived to this day, they'd be like a hundred years old.
Exactly...but immortality isnt so special anymore...since Sasori, Kakuzu, Hidan, Orochimaru were all immortal. I wouldnt be suprised if Zetsu and the leader are immortal aswell...and that one of them or ofcourse someone outside of Akatsuki is responsible for their deaths and is still alive.

As for the 3rd MS user...i doubt that he would be dead. Itachi mentioned him instead of Kakashi and when he mentioned him....i think it ment that Itachi became the 2nd user and Sasuke would be the 3rd user.

IF those rumored theories about the 3 MS users is true....then the definetly need to stay alive.
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Old 2007-04-10, 20:33   Link #69
Rurouni Zeke
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because Kishimoto all of a sudden decided that using kyuubi at lvl 4 would mean Naruto drastically shortening his life span...
Yeah I understand that part, but I was just saying that I think if Kyuubi was supposed to be dangerous to Naruto's life, then that's something that should have been revealed in part 1, and then his training with Jiraya should have been geared toward getting better without Kyuubi. I just don't like that he hyped Kyuubi control, then had the time skip where the reader could assume Naruto was training Kyuubi control, then decided that post timeskip Kyuubi was going to be a liability instead of an asset. To me, that undermines the whole point of Jiraya's training. I was expecting big things from Naruto + Kyuubi, but instead, Kyuubi was put on the shelf and the consolation prize was yet another iteration of the Rasengan (complete with the much-loved training arc AFTER he had just spent 2.5 years training).
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Old 2007-04-10, 21:30   Link #70
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Yeah I understand that part, but I was just saying that I think if Kyuubi was supposed to be dangerous to Naruto's life, then that's something that should have been revealed in part 1, and then his training with Jiraya should have been geared toward getting better without Kyuubi. I just don't like that he hyped Kyuubi control, then had the time skip where the reader could assume Naruto was training Kyuubi control, then decided that post timeskip Kyuubi was going to be a liability instead of an asset. To me, that undermines the whole point of Jiraya's training. I was expecting big things from Naruto + Kyuubi, but instead, Kyuubi was put on the shelf and the consolation prize was yet another iteration of the Rasengan (complete with the much-loved training arc AFTER he had just spent 2.5 years training).
I tend to agree, though I think the value of Jiriaya's training seemed very low even before that... I mean really, for someone who was trianing under one of the sannin, Naruto's progress during the time skip seems very marginal at best... I mean, all of his overall abilities increased enough that he can keep up with kakashi to some extent, as we saw kakashi having trouble dealing with him and sakura during the bell test... but i find that kind of improvment to be very minimal... i would imagine that all of the former genin, who didn't get sannin training, experienced a similar amount of improvement... Really, Sakura trained under Tsunade and the improvement there is loud and clear, the seems much better then minimal advancement(grant it, sakura benefits from her previous uselessness, going from useless to useful is quite a jump)... Compared to Sakura's advancement, Naruto doesn't seem like he was really trained by a sannin(i'm not gonna even think about the improvement that Sasuke got from time skip)... i'd dare say he might have had similar amount of improvement had he just stayed home... Grant it, he does have "that jutsu", whatever it is but so far he's been forbidden from using it... i really wonder if it's gonna be worth it when we finally see (i REALLY hope that 4 tails Kyuubi, wasn't it, cause then naruto's new policy of not using Kyuubi would really hurt Jiriaya's training value)

Really, it would have been EASY for kishi to sow some more value in Naruto's timeskip training... aside from just increasing Naruto's overall abilties, Kishi could have thrown in Some of jiraiya's Jutsus... Naruto could to some more toad summoning, that spiky thing with his hair, not sure about the elemental jutsus due not knowing naruto's element type.... but kishi also could have made up more jutsus for naruto, even if we didn't see jiriaya use them... like maybe the shadow clone Shuriken, that the 3rd hokage used, or maybe the dance of the creasent moon thing that Hayate used (though naruto would need a sword... Though it's not like it would have been a bad addition)... Really, ANYTHING would have been better than nothing... it could never hurt to add to Naruto's arsenal of Jutsus... ya, i really do think Kishi kinda wasted that oppurtunity there...

Last edited by Slayerx; 2007-04-10 at 21:52.
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Old 2007-04-11, 05:01   Link #71
kalbron
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@Rurouni Zeke:

That is actually a major complaint that I have with part II... it just doesn't make sense. Why does the Kyuubi suddenly go from being "Use it Naruto its one of your greatest assests!" to "Don't use it Naruto, we'll give you a new Jutsu which is equally as damaging (to yourself and others) to compensate!"?

I mean hells, he owned Kakuzu through plot-no-jutsu and his stupid upgraded rasengan, why couldn't Kishi done the interesting thing and had him using the 5-tails form to rip him a new one? Then it would actually make some sense that one of the most talented ninjas running around got killed by a ninja who is lacking both in stealth and variety of attack plans (use kagebushin, attack/distract, use variation of rasengan... and that's pretty much all the tactics Naruto is allowed now ).

The way it stands now it seems obvious that at some stage he's going to be forced into the 4-tails form (probably against either AL or Sasuke) and then Kishi is going to pull another plot-no-jutsu and he'll go from being the raging uncontrollable beast into Super Saiyan 4... *cough* I mean 5-tailed form.
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Old 2007-04-13, 19:09   Link #72
Kenu
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I don't know where this story is going now..

It seems aimless, lacking direction and feels like manga filler (if that is even possible?)

There is so much more to the Naruto story than watching Sasuke and his troupe, however entertaining that may be, walk around and pick up characters.

Is the point of these last few chapters meant to reveal that tension exists between the three new characters? This was already conveyed in one sentence by Suigetsu when he was first introduced.

If we compare the number of chapters devoted to Oro x Sasu it's 4 chapters: 343-346. Now with the Team Sasuke chapters: 347-350 again 4 chapters with 351 expected to be another Team Sasuke chapter thus making it 5.

In my view it seems unbalanced to spend only 4 chapters on defeating Orochimaru who has been built up to be such an infamous villian. The story then spends the next 5-6 chapters on picking up new characters whose worth is questionable to the story line except to be extra fodder for either Konoha or Akatsuki to measure their strength.

My point is, the economy of this manga appears low, when we compare the number of chapters to the progress of the story line.

The number of chapters increases linearly but the progress of the storyline to the goals appear to be stalling. Thus as I am reading the manga it feels like no or little progress is made towards the goals of the story set out by it's initial premises.

It makes the manga less appealing to read, but I will read it for closure and hope that Kishimoto does rekindle the genius that was demonstrated in the first part of the Naruto manga.
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Old 2007-04-16, 08:35   Link #73
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Just to inform you...Itachi never became a Jounin.
thanks lot gotta replace tat info in my head, tq.
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Old 2007-04-16, 10:24   Link #74
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I think I have to disagree with alot of people. I feel that the manga is starting to get its direction. The beginning is just full of dead-ends to me. Even the anime team had to begin at a later stage in the manga to make things interesting.

The manga went nowhere with Root and Danzou. Sai pretty much sucked as a new character. Akatsuki wasn't as powerful as I thought they are. The other jinchurikis were also a disappointment. No idea what Naruto's new jutsu that was taught by Jiraiya is. The upgraded rasengan...kinda of boring..since it's kinda the same thing. The fighting style is repititive. I still have no idea how the temple is connected to Konoha or how Asuma is connected to the monks. No idea what the bounty hunting is about. Probably another one-off thing. Hidan, his background, how his jutsu work is still a mystery. Again another one-off thing. Don't even know which Jinchuriki the pair was chasing. I guess it wasn't Naruto since they didn't really react. Ino and Chouji pretty much sucked. The Al's plan was pretty lame if you ask me. It's so stereotypical. Anything new that Kishi tried to introduce wasn't very interesting. Noone is even discussing those things anymore.

In comparison, now, there is alot more discussion because alot of things have come to light. We saw Oro's true form and his alternate dimension. We saw how Itachi defeated Oro. We're beginning to see glimpses of how Oro's operation works. The CS is going to be explained further. And of course we get to see Sasuke fight with totally different jutsus each time. Suigetsu is definitely more interesting than Sai. Did you see how the sword was wobbling when Suigetsu was handling it? That was hilarious. Realised that Sasuke had a plan all along and thus getting the same feeling of curiosity and anticipation as when I watch Prison Break. What is his plan? What is his next move? What are Suigetsu, Juugo and Karin going to be used for? Itachi to me is one of the few villains with his crebility intact. I don't have much hope for Deidra and Tobi and probably the rest of the Akatsuki. They are all fodders imo either to Konoha or Sasuke's team. Sasuke's team is definitely not fodder since Kishi is spending time developing their characters. They are going to be as valid as any of the Konoha team.
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Old 2007-04-17, 04:01   Link #75
zrexe
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sigh... another topic which got off-tracked by Spiro...

Please could you stop making mountains out of molehills, and contribute something more pertinent to the topic currently being discussed?



Anyway, my opinion about Naruto now is rather contradictory in some sense. On one hand, although I find that his development has been pretty poor in the last few chapters, with the training arc, I still do think it is in the correct direction.

Naruto has always been a character who is largely power based, with a couple of good tricks he uses once in a while. He has always been portrayed as the stupid dude, but triumphs in the end, simply because the way he acts make others underestimate his abiltity. Thus, I conclude that although right now, his developments have been boring, and useless (shuriken rasengan), I think that Kishi is moving things slowly on purpose so that he can drag out the manga to build Naruto up.

I mean, it would be too cool for Naruto to be able to throw a one hit KO nuclear bomb, although the shape of it just screams for it to be thrown, but I guess that will have to wait. Imagined if he did throw it the first time he used it against Kazuku, that would have worked against Kishi's way of showing Naruto's "hardwork over genius" aspect of his character, which might be a bad thing, since main characters do not usually change that much in a shonen.
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Old 2007-04-17, 08:46   Link #76
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The state of the manga, as it is now, is pathetic.

In my opinion, the Chunin exam was the pinnacle, introducing the Rookie Nine, enticing us with the sordid side of the Hyuga clan, the sinister Orochimaru, Jiraiya, a large scale shinobi engagement with the Sound & Sand invasion and finally the battle of the Sannin during the Tsunade search.

Then came the Sasuke arc. Thought it was still okay, since the struggles of Shikamaru and company were still rather riveting. I personally felt the battle between Naruto and Sasuke was too drawn out, and also relied too much on deus ex machina to allow Sasuke to win.

Spoiler:

So much potential wasted...
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Old 2007-04-17, 09:47   Link #77
Hunter
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I moved all the Anbu debat somewhere else, I hope not to see more completely off topic discussion here or it will quickly rain ban.
And some people here are really out of umbrella.
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Old 2007-04-17, 11:08   Link #78
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Exactly...but immortality isnt so special anymore...since Sasori, Kakuzu, Hidan, Orochimaru were all immortal. I wouldnt be suprised if Zetsu and the leader are immortal aswell...and that one of them or ofcourse someone outside of Akatsuki is responsible for their deaths and is still alive.
Sasori isn't immortal. He still uses his own heart which should stop with beating after some time. You still got a point though, but I doubt there will be more immortal people. =o

Well after rereading it. It isn't that bad as I first thought. Honestly Orochimaru's death wasn't bad. Though a longer fight might have been in order. He might still be in the body, because where not 100% sure what happened, but I do doubt he will be back. There's also a lack of background story on the Akatsuki members that died even with Sasori and he got the most air time of all the dying Akatsuki members.

The pace of the manga did get fucked with all the new not so special characters(sai, danzou, yamato, sasuke's team).

It's still readable. :O
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Old 2007-04-17, 14:42   Link #79
Mr. Johnny 5
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Sasori isn't immortal. He still uses his own heart which should stop with beating after some time. You still got a point though, but I doubt there will be more immortal people. =o

Well after rereading it. It isn't that bad as I first thought. Honestly Orochimaru's death wasn't bad. Though a longer fight might have been in order. He might still be in the body, because where not 100% sure what happened, but I do doubt he will be back. There's also a lack of background story on the Akatsuki members that died even with Sasori and he got the most air time of all the dying Akatsuki members.

The pace of the manga did get fucked with all the new not so special characters(sai, danzou, yamato, sasuke's team).

It's still readable. :O
Well i agree with you....the reason why i (cant accept or) dont think Orochimaru is really dead is because his actual fight was never shown. One of the biggest main villains was killed like that? That's gotta be a joke..even common weak and pathetic criminals get atleast 2 or 3 chapters to show their defeat.

And for example Zabuza, Haku, The Sound 5 all fought much longer....so i doubt he is gone

That is already one example of a thing which i dont like about Naruto so far...the fights are too quickly over.
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Old 2007-04-19, 13:34   Link #80
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I'm enjoying it, but I wish we saw a few of the other characters from the other teams more...
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