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Old 2009-01-18, 08:56   Link #1561
BetoJR
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You pretty much ended this "debate" right there. The romance you see in 00 grates you less. Obviously, some other people disagree. I, for one, find most of the hints at romance over the whole series, so far, to be pretty poorly developed (interestingly, the development I find most harmless is exactly the one most people seem to dislike, ie.: Setsuna and Marina) and the ones who grab the spotlight - like Saji and Louise - are just boring as hell.

Certainly, to me, the romance there is nowhere near comparable to the ones we had over at MF. Just a matter of personal choice, no wrongs or rights, here...
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Old 2009-01-18, 09:19   Link #1562
ZippyDSM
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You pretty much ended this "debate" right there. The romance you see in 00 grates you less. Obviously, some other people disagree. I, for one, find most of the hints at romance over the whole series, so far, to be pretty poorly developed (interestingly, the development I find most harmless is exactly the one most people seem to dislike, ie.: Setsuna and Marina) and the ones who grab the spotlight - like Saji and Louise - are just boring as hell.

Certainly, to me, the romance there is nowhere near comparable to the ones we had over at MF. Just a matter of personal choice, no wrongs or rights, here...
It also helps G00 has better dialog and such... MF is a mess like M7 was .
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Old 2009-01-18, 09:37   Link #1563
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Originally Posted by ZippyDSM View Post
It also helps G00 has better dialog and such... MF is a mess like M7 was .
If 00 has better dialogue, then why did I want to twist Setsuna's head off every time he said "Gundam" like he was having sex?
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Old 2009-01-18, 09:41   Link #1564
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Actually, that's another generalization. I, for one, do not think M7 was a mess. Nor MF, apart from the very ending. And I certainly do not think G00 has better dialog, altogether. There are some gratingly weird lines being delivered there, left and right - like abynormal pointed out.
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:00   Link #1565
ZippyDSM
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If 00 has better dialogue, then why did I want to twist Setsuna's head off every time he said "Gundam" like he was having sex?
Well him dose have a narcosis or 2 about gundams.... Freud would have a field day :X

Thats more speaking style than straight up dailog.... and it beats the dividing by zero effect when you have 2 of the 3 main MF characters on screen at one time.


Also one of my gripes with MF it shows to much romance details and these details tend to fail...hard, were as G00 shows surface details and dose not try and make up crap as they go along. But again all this is conjecture.

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Actually, that's another generalization. I, for one, do not think M7 was a mess. Nor MF, apart from the very ending. And I certainly do not think G00 has better dialog, altogether. There are some gratingly weird lines being delivered there, left and right - like abynormal pointed out.
Well I thought Seed was boring and on the dumb side, didn't care much for the sullen gay over tones of wing I am a fickle ass basarted :P

I enjoyed M7 but...frankly..... oy vay..... I have mixed feeling about MF for me story/pacing issues keep it from being really good.

Gundam00 is not missing a beat and hits its points well even if half the cast would rather sleep with a gundam then the other characters..... .
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:10   Link #1566
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Gundam00 is not missing a beat and hits its points well even if half the cast would rather sleep with a gundam then the other characters..... .
Now, you got THAT absolutely RIGHT!!!
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:14   Link #1567
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Now, you got THAT absolutely RIGHT!!!
Now all we need is Maria Ishmail in a Ultraman style latex gundam costume...
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:16   Link #1568
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I enjoyed M7 but...frankly..... oy vay..... I have mixed feeling about MF for me story/pacing issues keep it from being really good.

Gundam00 is not missing a beat and hits its points well even if half the cast would rather sleep with a gundam then the other characters..... .
I won't argue that MF dropped the ball in a few places regarding the plot and some key characterization *coughRankacough*. I'm hoping the movie can tighten that up and make it truly stellar.

MF made it up for me by having a cast of very likeable characters and drama I could get hooked on. I found it very hard to get attached to any character in 00, and it only really happened in the second season when the cast started gelling in my eyes. The drama in 00 is so overblown to me that I find myself laughing at it more than being impressed. Ironically, it's that over-the-top nature of 00's drama that keeps me coming back for more and forgiving it's laughable prediction of what world governments will be like 300 years from now. However, when it stops doing stuff like that and gets on with the plot, it is gripping.

In short, while 00 is strong on plot, I find the universe, characters and drama very weak, which were MF's strengths for me.

But ne, to each his own. There are still people who think GSD is the crown jewel of mecha anime, so in the end it all boils down to a matter of taste.
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Old 2009-01-18, 10:23   Link #1569
ZippyDSM
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I won't argue that MF dropped the ball in a few places regarding the plot and some key characterization *coughRankacough*. I'm hoping the movie can tighten that up and make it truly stellar.

MF made it up for me by having a cast of very likeable characters and drama I could get hooked on. I found it very hard to get attached to any character in 00, and it only really happened in the second season when the cast started gelling in my eyes. The drama in 00 is so overblown to me that I find myself laughing at it more than being impressed. Ironically, it's that over-the-top nature of 00's drama that keeps me coming back for more and forgiving it's laughable prediction of what world governments will be like 300 years from now. However, when it stops doing stuff like that and gets on with the plot, it is gripping.

In short, while 00 is strong on plot, I find the universe, characters and drama very weak, which were MF's strengths for me.

But ne, to each his own. There are still people who think GSD is the crown jewel of mecha anime, so in the end it all boils down to a matter of taste.
I think it dose well with how messed up governments are, I mean look at the midest look at human warring and history it dose a very good job on it IMO, the subtle or not allegory and under current of the modern world is clueless about the realities of the real world is very well done.

I can not find much fault in G00, MF might as well be paradoy anime X-X(and ya I only half say that but the clashing themes and weak story pacing/elements drives me crazy......er.... )
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:42   Link #1570
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M7 was not a mess! Or maybe it was, but I liked M7 even if it was a bit ridiculous at times. It's a very different series from MF though. Romance wasn't really the focus of M7 at all.

00 is much stronger on plot when compared to MF. But MF is more character driven, so you do get attached to people more quickly than in 00. Especially considering 00's first few episodes of season 1 are practically all world building/set up and very little focus on individual characters. It takes more time to get attached to people because of it. However, even MF isn't perfect with its characterization. The main three got plenty of screentime, but there were others who should have gotten more and didn't because of the focus on the LT. Plus, Ranka's development was also far from perfect.

For me they both are strong on the drama, just in different ways.
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Old 2009-01-18, 11:54   Link #1571
ZippyDSM
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M7 was not a mess! Or maybe it was, but I liked M7 even if it was a bit ridiculous at times. It's a very different series from MF though. Romance wasn't really the focus of M7 at all.

00 is much stronger on plot when compared to MF. But MF is more character driven, so you do get attached to people more quickly than in 00. Especially considering 00's first few episodes of season 1 are practically all world building/set up and very little focus on individual characters. It takes more time to get attached to people because of it. However, even MF isn't perfect with its characterization. The main three got plenty of screentime, but there were others who should have gotten more and didn't because of the focus on the LT. Plus, Ranka's development was also far from perfect.

For me they both are strong on the drama, just in different ways.
I "like" both M7 and MF however went you add up the faults be they design issues,fictional quirks, story issues, plot issues, pacing issues they are both a mess.

Hellsign TV is a mess, Meledoy of Oblivoin is a mess,ect,ect Just because its a mess dose not mean its bad it just means its sloppy or strange in a few areas.

G00 is a mess to those that nit pick at it they may or may not find it bad but because of the issues they find in it it becomes messy.
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Old 2009-01-18, 12:24   Link #1572
Tak
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How have we switched from Macross to talk about... Hellsing?

And while G00 is not a mess, I hate the characters because I cannot find a single likable person. Sure, this is the second season now, but most of the characters are still assholes!

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Old 2009-01-18, 12:28   Link #1573
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How have we switched from Macross to talk about... Hellsing?

And while G00 is not a mess, I hate the characters because I cannot find a single likable person. Sure, this is the second season now, but most of the characters are still assholes!

- Tak
C'mon now, at least their still "in character". You may not like them. But at least they're more than capable of moving the story. I mean, chara development and etc....

Aside from that, any news on the movie? I've seen to have missed the air date? or haven't it had announced yet?
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Old 2009-01-18, 12:29   Link #1574
ZippyDSM
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How have we switched from Macross to talk about... Hellsing?

And while G00 is not a mess, I hate the characters because I cannot find a single likable person. Sure, this is the second season now, but most of the characters are still assholes!

- Tak
Perhaps you should read, they are examples of a mess.


Meh I'll take G00 characters over the witless and annoying leads and loli of MF.

/b

:P
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Old 2009-01-18, 12:49   Link #1575
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Gundam 00? I dropped the show after five episodes, because the premise was idiotic ( Yeah, we are gonna piss off all big governments... then we´ll act surprised that they´ll unite to crush our whiny asses ) and the characters felt as flat as Rankas chest.

Thanks, but no thanks... MF had tons of memorable characters and a much better story.
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Old 2009-01-18, 13:03   Link #1576
ZippyDSM
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Gundam 00? I dropped the show after five episodes, because the premise was idiotic ( Yeah, we are gonna piss off all big governments... then we´ll act surprised that they´ll unite to crush our whiny asses ) and the characters felt as flat as Rankas chest.

Thanks, but no thanks... MF had tons of memorable characters and a much better story.
Bah the random silliness of MF and poor story pacing made it stupid. I found the concepts normal modern day like governments taking them and solidifying them into a unified world nation very interesting because we are going through such things right now today, but at a slower smaller scale.

G00 is very interesting because how do you force humanity to get over itself and band together without a external alien threat.


I guess G00 is to high a concept for most MF is more simple and whimsical.
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Old 2009-01-18, 13:12   Link #1577
Tak
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Originally Posted by ZippyDSM View Post
Perhaps you should read, they are examples of a mess.
And I feel they are out of place.

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Bah the random silliness of MF and poor story pacing made it stupid.
And the whole premise of 00 already made it stupid. Watching the first season of 00 was watching episodes of no shit moments, followed by occasional duh. Thats 00 for you.

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C'mon now, at least their still "in character". You may not like them. But at least they're more than capable of moving the story. I mean, chara development and etc....
Hey, I have an aversion to overly arrogant characters, especially with 00 giving me a list of assholes to work with. Not exactly my favorite archtype. I still watch 00, but I won't be going gaga over it anytime soon. Personally, I can not find a single character in 00 that I'd bother to remember in years to come.

Then again, I loved SEED/Destiny, so perhaps that had something to do with it.

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Aside from that, any news on the movie? I've seen to have missed the air date? or haven't it had announced yet?
Last time we checked, it should be released in the Summer.

- Tak (Now, Gundam SEED DESTINY movie on the other hand...)
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Old 2009-01-18, 13:34   Link #1578
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The Gundam Seed Movie has finally moved into preproduction. God knows when it'll come out, but it will come out. Took them long enough. Though I suppose with Morosawa sick with cancer it can't be helped.

You admit to liking GSD? Hehehe....now that was a mess. The pacing of the series was terrible. But it had its moments and I am very fond of GS characters so I cannot bring myself to hate GSD as so many do.

Um, back to MF v. 00....each has a very different premise. It's hard to compare. You might find 00's premise to be ridiculous but there are many that would turn around and say singing to bugs to bring about peace is equally idiotic (actually a friend of mine just recently said that. She just can't get into Macross because the idea of singing and battles/mecha is too stupid for her). I like singing and mecha. But for some people it's too much.

When I say 00 is better plot-wise, I'm not actually going and comparing story points and saying whose idea is better/more stupid than the other. They are just too different and I personally enjoy both stories for the most part. I think plot-wise 00 is stronger in that the pacing is better and they've managed their time well. You can tell they really have their script together. I don't forsee an issue of rushing in the last few episodes and cramming everything in to try to fill in all the plotholes. MF was a mess in that so much time was wasted on the LT and then it's like they only remembered the galaxy and vajra plots at the last second and crammed everything in those final episodes.
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Old 2009-01-18, 13:43   Link #1579
Tak
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You admit to liking GSD? Hehehe....now that was a mess. The pacing of the series was terrible. But it had its moments and I am very fond of GS characters so I cannot bring myself to hate GSD as so many do.
Yeah, GSD was a mess, but it was self-corrected. Likewise, MF from 13 on became a mess, until it was later corrected 18 onwards.

Too bad for Shinn, it wasn't his fault really, just that nobody liked him.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-18, 13:45   Link #1580
zalem
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I would say there are many who don't believe GSD has any redeemable value at all and didn't self-correct. Poor GSD, it gets bashed so badly in the Gundam forum. I suppose it's kind of like how M7 gets thrashed too.
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