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View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 03 Rating
Perfect 10 14 17.07%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 19.51%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 30 36.59%
7 out of 10 : Good 13 15.85%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 7.32%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.22%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.22%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.22%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-04-20, 15:49   Link #441
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Loner View Post
And the body of a magical device is made from magical energy during "set up", with only the core of the device being a pre-existing physical object. Ok, now I see what you're saying (maybe). Good point.

When you look at it that way, I don't know what to think. I've never seen an official explanation of how a device works.

I think it also have to do with the level of the AMF. I really doubt something like a jewel seed much less Rein I could be affected by a normal AMF field. Same thing would applied to device and a matter of how magic is in the core.
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Old 2007-04-20, 16:34   Link #442
Fuyu no Sora
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Originally Posted by Loner View Post
Good question, but I doubt it. In both the manga and the 1st episode of StrikerS, Vita and Signum were in melee combat with the drones. If that were going to be a problem for magically created beings, it would've showed up then.

I'd speculate that, although magic was used in the creation of the Wolkenritter, they were designed so their bodies are living flesh & blood that don't depend on magic to maintain their existance. Otherwise, they'd be a drain on their master's magic just by existing, rather than just when they use magic. That'd be pretty bad design.
Yeah, I think so too. Kinda like Arf: She was always draining Fate's power. However the same rules don't seem to apply to the Wolkenritter and I've also come to think of them as humans.
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Old 2007-04-20, 16:42   Link #443
Kikaifan
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Originally Posted by Loner View Post
Good question, but I doubt it. In both the manga and the 1st episode of StrikerS, Vita and Signum were in melee combat with the drones. If that were going to be a problem for magically created beings, it would've showed up then.

I'd speculate that, although magic was used in the creation of the Wolkenritter, they were designed so their bodies are living flesh & blood that don't depend on magic to maintain their existance. Otherwise, they'd be a drain on their master's magic just by existing, rather than just when they use magic. That'd be pretty bad design.
Yeah, even R2 can survive inside an AMF, so it seems like autoprograms can sustain themselves inside AMF fine.
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Old 2007-04-20, 16:44   Link #444
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hmm am confused too now lol ><.The way i see it, for the devices when they made contact with AMF might lose some magic but able to retain it's function because they regenerate it right away from their holder if the effect/damage is not too bad.

In case of Wolkenritter/familiar aren't they just being made from magic(assumption). Even if they are flesh and blood,those are magic based.In my imagination if they touch AMF directly, it might damage their body (or other bad effect) something like corroding em .

For the newbies new gear, isn't that more like the devices is stored using magic in compact form especially for Subaru/Teana(just assuming since those 2 usually running around with their devices in original form).They got it stored next eps i guess from the preview.

Argg i typed too slow again >< 2 post faster..got to go for work now ><
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Old 2007-04-20, 21:43   Link #445
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Originally Posted by raidou View Post
Hayate did mention she cant control her power really well without Rein being around though in ep2.
I suppose you could interpret that as Hayate getting -2 to Accuracy but gaining at 30% chance to do 300% damage at the risk of 30% backfiring. But Rein wasn't with her per se when she flash froze the Airport just fine. Unless that applies to even bigger spells?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner View Post
And the body of a magical device is made from magical energy during "set up", with only the core of the device being a pre-existing physical object. Ok, now I see what you're saying (maybe). Good point.

When you look at it that way, I don't know what to think. I've never seen an official explanation of how a device works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raidou View Post
hmm am confused too now lol ><.The way i see it, for the devices when they made contact with AMF might lose some magic but able to retain it's function because they regenerate it right away from their holder if the effect/damage is not too bad.

For the newbies new gear, isn't that more like the devices is stored using magic in compact form especially for Subaru/Teana(just assuming since those 2 usually running around with their devices in original form).They got it stored next eps i guess from the preview.
I've always interpreted the device heshin (or any henshin for the matter) to be a conversion of energy to matter supported by nanomachines, given that magic in Nanohaverse is tech-supported. My theory is that upon activation the device scatters the nanites into the space around themselves and start imbibing the mage's maryoku. The speed of light for the dimenisional space where maryoku is derived can be infered to be much less than that of normal energy, since its so readily converted to solid objects in summoning magic, then couple it with the nanites acting as a catalyst for the conversion and so we get the "bits and pieces forming out of the air" look for devices and the "glittering wipedown" look for BJs during henshin.

EDIT1: Why doesn't the summoned systems change back to magic upon exposure? Since its already convert to matter, even if the BJ and device is exposed to the AMF (I see it as a maryoku disruption field that works the same way as the Ion Disruptors protecting the NOD's Temple Prime) in which the supporting nanites would be shut down due to the lack of maryoku, the speed of light constant would be the barrier for conversion back to energy (its smaller, but still noticibly there, for even 1000th of Earth's C, that's still a big number. That's why I feel that the nanite were cataysts of sorts as well). In simpler terms the Device and BJ would require great agitation to disrupt the temporal atomic nucleii and convert the system back to magic, and what's lost would only be the summoned systems' ability to regenerate and regulate maryuko into castable spells.

EDIT2: Sorry for changing this post so often! I felt that I should add that I'm assuming that the Laws of Equivalent Exchange, the Joules Principle and E=mc(2) holds true in the Nanohaverse. You noe how the laws of nature get warped from dimension to dimension.
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Old 2007-04-20, 22:38   Link #446
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All I can say is...wow! You got some solid theory there Kha. But seeing as how it's all that complicated,
I don't think they'd make an anime that bases itself on so many complex principles.
If they did though, that's some crazy background story we have there!

Anyways, regarding my opinion of ep3, since this is what this thread is about,
I've just seen the raw (finally!) and I have to say I find things becoming really interesting there.
I can't wait to see what kind of training Nanoha is going to make them go through (that's more like how much she'll make them suffer )
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Old 2007-04-20, 23:04   Link #447
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Originally Posted by Akarum View Post
All I can say is...wow! You got some solid theory there Kha. But seeing as how it's all that complicated,
I don't think they'd make an anime that bases itself on so many complex principles.
If they did though, that's some crazy background story we have there!

Anyways, regarding my opinion of ep3, since this is what this thread is about,
I've just seen the raw (finally!) and I have to say I find things becoming really interesting there.
I can't wait to see what kind of training Nanoha is going to make them go through (that's more like how much she'll make them suffer )
*bows* Thank you! I just love doing that, ever since Star Trek. *looks nerdy*

I just watched the MQ chinese subs and I'm wondering about the Erio battling Nanoha shot... They are going to be in a world of pain. And the bedroom thing was only for 5 lines of exhange! that's around 30s! AND YET we made a big hoohah over it. >_<
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Old 2007-04-20, 23:21   Link #448
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
EDIT2: Sorry for changing this post so often! I felt that I should add that I'm assuming that the Laws of Equivalent Exchange, the Joules Principle and E=mc(2) holds true in the Nanohaverse.
When it comes to anime, those are rarely good assumptions.
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Old 2007-04-21, 00:11   Link #449
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
*bows* Thank you! I just love doing that, ever since Star Trek. *looks nerdy*
A fellow Trekkie, hooray And yes, being a trekkie does give you somewhat better grasp of technobabble and technology than most

And your nanites on magic sounds like a good, solid theory (in fact, I'm wondering why they have yet to mention them in the Nanohaverse). That same explanation for the Barrier Jackets can also be applied to magical devices, and how they can grow and morph into various shapes, but using the nanites in denser concentrations and in more orderly materialization processes.

I do think that sufficiently powerful magic, concentrated in a single spot, can disrupt a Barrier Jacket enough by applying enough energy to turn it back into magic (see Vita's absolute destruction of Nanoha's Barrier Jacket in A's).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist
When it comes to anime, those are rarely good assumptions.
Doesn't stop us from using those assumptions though XD
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Old 2007-04-21, 00:27   Link #450
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Being a nerd is all about technobabble... taking meaning out of the meaningless.

Total barrier jacket destruction = barrier jacket expending energy in the rest of the jacket to reduce a lethal blow at one point?
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Old 2007-04-21, 00:41   Link #451
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Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
Being a nerd is all about technobabble... taking meaning out of the meaningless.

Total barrier jacket destruction = barrier jacket expending energy in the rest of the jacket to reduce a lethal blow at one point?
Or rather, finding meaning where most find head scratching confusion

And much like reactive armor, that seems to be the case where the BJ dissipated most of the kinetic energy and magical damage, even if most of the forward kinetic energy of the blow was still pretty effective, which was how Nanoha was knocked back pretty painfully...
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Old 2007-04-21, 00:53   Link #452
Chaos2Frozen
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@Kha

I WOULD try to read all that... But I'm not man enough

As an unreasonable request, could you summarize? Sorry...
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Old 2007-04-21, 01:00   Link #453
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
@Kha

I WOULD try to read all that... But I'm not man enough

As an unreasonable request, could you summarize? Sorry...
Well, I may provide a sandpaper-rough summary of Kha's points (since if I were to "simplify" it, it would end up as a much more confusing mess ).

1. His theory is that Nanomachines are the base on which Barrier Jackets form, and that the nanites convert magical energy into matter, using the principles of conversion of matter to energy ala E=MC2.
2. With the speed of light being slower in dimensional space, less energy is required to convert said energy to matter, thus making said method plausible.
3. Even if the Barrier Jackets are exposed to AMF, the energy required to convert their matter back to energy would be immense, due to the speed of light constant being immensely large, which means massive amounts of energy would have to be expended to dissipate a barrier jacket. So Barrier Jackets are unaffected by AMF (and so we don't see anyone get strip naked of their BJ's when entering AMF)

*point in italics are mine, not his *

@ Kha: Tell me if I missed or misunderstood something ^^;;;
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Old 2007-04-21, 01:58   Link #454
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I vastly prefer some solution that invokes alternate magic law and ignores physics. Even if you assume that magic makes the process easy, who in the world would waste the amount of energy necessary for an Einsteinian energy-to-matter conversion just to avoid carrying their outfit around?

I mean, armor like Signum's with significant amounts of metal would take the kind of energy output you usually associate with (several) high-yield hydrogen bombs to convert from energy. Nanites don't get you out of that.
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Old 2007-04-21, 03:28   Link #455
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Quote:
I've always interpreted the device heshin (or any henshin for the matter) to be a conversion of energy to matter supported by nanomachines, given that magic in Nanohaverse is tech-supported. My theory is that upon activation the device scatters the nanites into the space around themselves and start imbibing the mage's maryoku. The speed of light for the dimenisional space where maryoku is derived can be infered to be much less than that of normal energy, since its so readily converted to solid objects in summoning magic, then couple it with the nanites acting as a catalyst for the conversion and so we get the "bits and pieces forming out of the air" look for devices and the "glittering wipedown" look for BJs during henshin.

EDIT1: Why doesn't the summoned systems change back to magic upon exposure? Since its already convert to matter, even if the BJ and device is exposed to the AMF (I see it as a maryoku disruption field that works the same way as the Ion Disruptors protecting the NOD's Temple Prime) in which the supporting nanites would be shut down due to the lack of maryoku, the speed of light constant would be the barrier for conversion back to energy (its smaller, but still noticibly there, for even 1000th of Earth's C, that's still a big number. That's why I feel that the nanite were cataysts of sorts as well). In simpler terms the Device and BJ would require great agitation to disrupt the temporal atomic nucleii and convert the system back to magic, and what's lost would only be the summoned systems' ability to regenerate and regulate maryuko into castable spells.

EDIT2: Sorry for changing this post so often! I felt that I should add that I'm assuming that the Laws of Equivalent Exchange, the Joules Principle and E=mc(2) holds true in the Nanohaverse. You noe how the laws of nature get warped from dimension to dimension.
Just got back.Really good theory there kha ,thanks it is a good solution for now.Took me a while to read through with dictionary

Quote:
(and so we don't see anyone get strip naked of their BJ's when entering AMF)
O.o we could make some fanfic from this part.Thanks for summarizing lowegear it help a bunch.

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When it comes to anime, those are rarely good assumptions.
Most of the time , they would never explain this kind of thing...We can just assume all we want It is an anime anyway in 1st place ^^
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Old 2007-04-21, 03:48   Link #456
Chaos2Frozen
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Yeah, thanks for the break down LoweGear

Oh btw, the english subs are out... Not that alot of us need it now ...
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Old 2007-04-21, 06:08   Link #457
Aaron008R
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...Whoa... Excellent theory there, Kha. I've never considered nanomachines in the Nanohaverse before. Sadly, being an anime, I guess StrikerS wouldn't go too in depth with explenations of the magic and anti-magic principles. I've heard there was already a novel about Nanoha (Jewel Seed arc). Perhaps they would have a chance to go in depth with the aforementioned theories once (or if) they make the novels for A's and StrikerS. Anyway, until they give their own explenation, I'll take yours as the most feasible theory for the meanwhile.

Please continue to keep up the good discussions, everyone!
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Old 2007-04-21, 06:29   Link #458
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Re watched ep3 with subs , i loled at VS being fireball shoot (everything else is good no offense to DGz people)
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Old 2007-04-21, 06:59   Link #459
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Rein is too darn cute! I loved the scoldings on the subordinates. Little ghostly Rein is even better! Signum cooks instead of Shamal, hmmm... survival instinct, eh?

Spoiler for About the Ep:
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Old 2007-04-21, 07:26   Link #460
Fuyu no Sora
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Kha: Nice theory there . But I'd have to study Physics before understanding everything (Not too tempting ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPerson
Rein is too darn cute! I loved the scoldings on the subordinates. Little ghostly Rein is even better! Signum cooks instead of Shamal, hmmm... survival instinct, eh?


Spoiler for About the episode:
I agree. But I guess Nanoha knows what she's doing. She's been a Tactical Instructor for about 6-7 years. (Although I admit it looks kinda dangerous )
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