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Old 2007-04-17, 14:04   Link #21
MobiuS
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Deidara is extremely smart. If it wasnt for the fact that his entire retinue of moves is based off clay ... he would officially be the deadliest ninja alive. I mean .... he can summon whatever he wants with minimal chakra cost ... make it explode when he wants ... his movement / decoy tactics are enough to definitely kill you if you come close range. Also very adept for stealth / long range jobs ... hes a beast. His weakness is midrange ... which is Sharingan range. Not good. Aside from all that, he'd be the perfect ninja to take down uchihas.

Sasori would have been better ... forcing you to keep track of 100 puppets at the same time, each of them able to kill you on contact die to poison transfer. Some dont even need contact ... tey just breathe the shizaz on you. Not even itachi could survive a serious Sasori.

Ild put Kisame over Itachi as well ... for one main fact. At 1/2 his chakra ... he flooded an entire countryside. He can multiprison you in the water. He can literally just get by swamping areas and drowning everyone ... ez.

Overall I dont even think Itachi is in top 5 BEST. He is deadly as fuck ... and fast as hell to boot. But most of these Akatsuki members have techniques that mean at close range ... you die. No questions asked. That is scary.
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Old 2007-04-17, 14:49   Link #22
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
Deidara is extremely smart. If it wasnt for the fact that his entire retinue of moves is based off clay ... he would officially be the deadliest ninja alive. I mean .... he can summon whatever he wants with minimal chakra cost ... make it explode when he wants ... his movement / decoy tactics are enough to definitely kill you if you come close range. Also very adept for stealth / long range jobs ... hes a beast. His weakness is midrange ... which is Sharingan range. Not good. Aside from all that, he'd be the perfect ninja to take down uchihas.

Sasori would have been better ... forcing you to keep track of 100 puppets at the same time, each of them able to kill you on contact die to poison transfer. Some dont even need contact ... tey just breathe the shizaz on you. Not even itachi could survive a serious Sasori.

Ild put Kisame over Itachi as well ... for one main fact. At 1/2 his chakra ... he flooded an entire countryside. He can multiprison you in the water. He can literally just get by swamping areas and drowning everyone ... ez.

Overall I dont even think Itachi is in top 5 BEST. He is deadly as fuck ... and fast as hell to boot. But most of these Akatsuki members have techniques that mean at close range ... you die. No questions asked. That is scary.
Kisame is stronger than Itachi? When Kisame considers Itachi his superior? He's supposed to drown people who can stand on water in a flood? I can see Sasori and maybe Deidara, but that comparison makes me think your opinions are kind of biased. You gauge each Akatsuki member by how'd they do if they fought Itachi, when you know that's very unlikely to happen (and in Sasori's case impossible) so you'll never be proved wrong. Then you don't take any of Itachi's abilities into account. Your descriptions make it sound like he'd just be standing there like a retard.

If you're trying to prove Itachi is weak, by all means go ahead but do you honestly think Kishi meant to have him as one of the weaker members?

Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2007-04-17 at 15:00.
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Old 2007-04-17, 16:17   Link #23
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
- The only Akatsuki who had the odds stack against him from the beginning. Like for example, it wasn't simply Deidara Vs Gaara; but Deidara Vs the entire Sand Village. Gaara had so many advantages over Deidara that it was almost laughable and even here, Deidara thought the fight would had been a joke and didn't even arrived half prepared.
And the sand village did what exactly? that fight was all Deidara vs Garra... in fact the sand village actually worked in Deidara's favor... As i've said before, only by targeting the sand village was he able to trick Garra into guarding himself with the sand that Deidara booby trapped... if it were'nt for Garra wanting to defend the village he would have never fallen into Diedara's trap; Garra would have won that fight if the village wasn't there... so the village actually helped him
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- The shown Akatsuki member who had captured the most Bijuus; and in Deidara's case, he had captured them practically by himself.
The most being 2 (1 and half your talking about fighting solo)... really you make it sound like he captured tthree or so on his own or something... Deidara captured Garra on his own, but Tobi claimed to have done a lot of the work taking out the three tail, if i recall...

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Deidara had shown more than enough to prove he can fight any shinobi in the series and have a good chance of winning; even the 4th with his instant teleportation jutsu.
Any shinobi except for Naruto and Kakashi apparently... He was aiming to beat and capture Naruto, using his bombs to attack them as he baited the two of them using Garra... However, as we saw, apperently Kakashi and Naruto didn't have much trouble dealing with his clay attacks...

really, if a ninja has a way to block/dodge/destory the bombs then they can take on Deidara; it's not the easiest task, but it's not the most impossible one either... tough we didn't see the whole fight, i would wager to guess that Naruto was probably using Clones to take damage for him and kakashi was probably using kunai or shurikens to blow the the things while in mid air

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By far, I will have to say either Hidan or Tobi is the weakest member and I am greatly leaning towards Hidan who even with his immortality can be defeated fairly easily.
Kinda hard to measure Tobi as the weakest since we haven't really seen him in action... acting like an idiot is not really a sign of weakness, especially in anime... The only real contributing reason would be that he was the last to join the group, but even that raises some questions as to exactly why it that was... was it really that he was the weakest, or did the others just have certain abilities that made them more appealing as memebers despite being weaker (like Hidan's immortality which makes him tough to kill and thus good to take on bijuu)
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Old 2007-04-17, 16:26   Link #24
MobiuS
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Kisame is stronger than Itachi? When Kisame considers Itachi his superior? He's supposed to drown people who can stand on water in a flood? I can see Sasori and maybe Deidara, but that comparison makes me think your opinions are kind of biased. You gauge each Akatsuki member by how'd they do if they fought Itachi, when you know that's very unlikely to happen (and in Sasori's case impossible) so you'll never be proved wrong. Then you don't take any of Itachi's abilities into account. Your descriptions make it sound like he'd just be standing there like a retard.

If you're trying to prove Itachi is weak, by all means go ahead but do you honestly think Kishi meant to have him as one of the weaker members?
Dont cry now. Thats my opinion. Of course you can be stronger than your boss. He already has a huger mana pool and a weapon that consumes TONS of chakra without even making contact. Itachi already needs to stay a ridicuous distance away to completely avoid his chakra being consumed.

His ability to imprison you without contact if you are touching his water means his flood prison combo can pretty much lock down any opponent. That combo almost killed Gai's team. Thanks to neji's chakra disruption he was able to break free and save the team.

Kisame is NO JOKE. His ability to take away all your chakra, flood entire terrains and imprison those in contact with his water is enough to kill most ninjas.

Itachi is good. But hes overrated. Aside from MS/Shariingan, he hasn't done anything worthwhile to me that puts him within Akatsuki ranks. He needs newer tricks.
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Old 2007-04-17, 17:02   Link #25
SpiRo
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Hmm itachi can put him in genjutsu with moving finger .. and instant kill him .. i dont know how this work but that is pretty enough for me ..
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Old 2007-04-17, 17:45   Link #26
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Mobius
I dunno about you ... but if Deidara launched an army of spiders at Itachi and hid, he could actually blow the mofo up long before Itachi can get any sort of assault move going.
Well, putting aside that Deidara doesn't have enough clay to make a whole army of spiders (more like several dozen atmost), Itachi has incredible speed and he is also an expert in the use of Shuirkens... really, if a bunch of spiders or speed birds were to come at Itachi he would more then likely blow them all up using shurikens before they could get close enough... any that he doesn't blow up he can avoid sing his speed and take another shot at them with his shurikens

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Overall I dont even think Itachi is in top 5 BEST. He is deadly as fuck ... and fast as hell to boot. But most of these Akatsuki members have techniques that mean at close range ... you die. No questions asked. That is scary.
Quote:
Itachi is good. But hes overrated. Aside from MS/Shariingan, he hasn't done anything worthwhile to me that puts him within Akatsuki ranks. He needs newer tricks.
Y'know, last i checked, the whole MS thing that could practically kill you by looking at him; it's really quite the high level trick right there... and that works at ALL ranges, not just close or far... you even look at itachi and you can find yourself trapped in his genjutsu, one that is not easy to escape from... Gai seems to be the only one who can take on Itachi since he knows how to fight a high level oppenent by only looking at his feet, this is however a very rare trait that pretty much only Gai can pull off... the rest who try that would be placed at a great handicap... so much so that they won't stand a chance taking on Itachi

Kisame... ya, all those grat techniques of his can make him one of the stronger members, but not stronger than Itachi... really, all those techniques won't do him any good the moment he gets stuck in the MS genjutsu
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Old 2007-04-17, 18:00   Link #27
Eisdrache
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Spiro:
Its annoying how you are defending Uchihas while not allowing any other opinion.

Back to topic:
All Members of Akatsuki can be taken down if they are facing someone who can match their strength and take advantage of their weakness.

Take Deidara as an example. Once Deidara runs out of clay its game over for him. On the bright side he is very smart and can blow you up while staying in the air. If you keep him in range while dodging his bombs you wont ever loose against him.

Sasori fought against his two worst opponents too. Sakura with neutralizing his poison and his grandmother having advanced knowledge of puppets. He would have been extremely hard to kill for any other konoha ninja combination excluding sakura.
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Old 2007-04-17, 18:08   Link #28
tatami
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for me:

there is no certain char that is uber over powered in narutoverse. the only rule is :

itachi is stronger than x and x is stronger then y and y is s form z and z is stronger f
and f is stronger than itachi but any of these characters can take down itachi.thats the beauty of it. so there is no such thing the weakest or strongest...

i mean kisame is way stronger than hidan yet hidan can kill him in an instant.so who is stronger?or weaker? none. it depends on how you play your cards....
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Old 2007-04-17, 19:46   Link #29
itachi29al
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How can someone support the idea of Deidara being strong, he is by far the weakest. I don't think that their is any definite in naruto universe but seeing how easily he fell to kakashi MS sure dose not help his case. When think about Deidara would lose to all members except for maybe Hidan- only if he kept his distance and slowly blew him to bits- and even thats a maybe.But Hidan can fair so well against so many other opponents the Deidara could not. How can someone think that Itachi is weak. Do you honestly think that Kishi would make his favorite character Sasuke opponent some weak idiot. I still think Deidara is the weakest. Do not get me wrong Deidara is a cool guy, personality wise he is probably my second favorite, but just looking at the facts he is the weakest- but this does not mean he is weak Akatisuki is just full stronger people.
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Old 2007-04-17, 20:36   Link #30
EvolutionXI
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Yah, I personally don't see Deidara as one of the stronger ones (probably just because his clay style is a bit less appealing to me), though I do see that he can be pretty strong. Partly depends how much clay he carries too I guess. I mean his two little pouches of clay lasted awhile against Gaara. If he were to carry as much clay as Gaara does with sand in his gord, then I think Deidara wouldn't really have the problem of running out. His kamikaze explosion thing (though he didn't even die) is pretty strong too though. I think, like with Sasori, he just got paired with a bad opponent (Kakashi with his new MS) at that time. Like if Kakashi wasn't there, Gai probably wouldn't have been able to do anything about it.

My opinion would be that, if anything, Hidan is the weakest overall since there are quite a few fighting styles that can be used against him (pretty much anything but pure melee, which even then might beat him if you move fast enough). We weren't really shown much about his fighting capabilities besides the ritual thing, lack of real pain when injured, and still being alive when his head was cut off.

@MobiuS: I agree that Kisame is strong, but I think you may be forgetting a few things when comparing him with Itachi. I'm sure Itachi could easily copy (and probably has at some point through their time as partners, if not even earlier) the water prison jutsu. You also make it seem like everyone has their chakra leaking out all the time. When he used Samehada to eat Naruto's chakra, the chakra was being released from within (hence the orange flame). Most of the time we don't even see people release chakra before doing things...they just use it and go straight to using jutsus. So you can't really say that he can consume the chakra of anyone within Samehada's distance.
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Old 2007-04-17, 20:58   Link #31
SpiRo
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Originally Posted by itachi29al View Post
How can someone support the idea of Deidara being strong, he is by far the weakest. I don't think that their is any definite in naruto universe but seeing how easily he fell to kakashi MS sure dose not help his case. When think about Deidara would lose to all members except for maybe Hidan- only if he kept his distance and slowly blew him to bits- and even thats a maybe.But Hidan can fair so well against so many other opponents the Deidara could not. How can someone think that Itachi is weak. Do you honestly think that Kishi would make his favorite character Sasuke opponent some weak idiot. I still think Deidara is the weakest. Do not get me wrong Deidara is a cool guy, personality wise he is probably my second favorite, but just looking at the facts he is the weakest- but this does not mean he is weak Akatisuki is just full stronger people.
In that same MS Itachi can put anyone just lifting his finger .. so that mean they r all weak ?
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Old 2007-04-17, 22:32   Link #32
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In that same MS Itachi can put anyone just lifting his finger .. so that mean they r all weak ?
I think physically that Deidra is definately is one of the weakest...in terms of damage ability Deidra seems to be very strong. Truthfully I don't know where I would place Deidra's ability since we really don't know much about the other members...I think they all definately have strengths and weaknesses. MS itself isn't the end all, it's just Itachi's skilled at using MS and other sharingan abilities that he looks uber...
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Old 2007-04-17, 23:26   Link #33
astayanax
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Originally Posted by itachi29al View Post
How can someone support the idea of Deidara being strong, he is by far the weakest. I don't think that their is any definite in naruto universe but seeing how easily he fell to kakashi MS sure dose not help his case. When think about Deidara would lose to all members except for maybe Hidan- only if he kept his distance and slowly blew him to bits- and even thats a maybe.But Hidan can fair so well against so many other opponents the Deidara could not.
Why are you making the MS sound so weak? It is a TIME/SPACE jutsu that appears instantly at the spot the MS user focuses on. You have to bear in mind that Deidara was flying at high speed and even though Kakashi is clumsy with it, it was still not too hard for him to keep his eyes on Deidara. If that was say Sasori Kakashi used that same MS jutsu on, Sasori was a goner. Bear in mind that Deidara was already at low energy from having to deal with Gaara, then evading the Sand village, then giving out more chakra to summon out Gaara's bijuu... all without having any rest... practically out of clay, and was missing an arm. Kakashi (and Naruto) had a HUGE advantage on Deidara... and both would had gotten killed again if it wasn't for the MS.

Deidara would destroy (defeat not kill) Hidan no contest. Even Asuma defeated Hidan easily till Kakuzu came and put his head back on. Hidan's biggest strength is he can't be killed; but unfortunately for Hidan, you don't need to kill him to obtain a victory.

Quote:
How can someone think that Itachi is weak. Do you honestly think that Kishi would make his favorite character Sasuke opponent some weak idiot. I still think Deidara is the weakest. Do not get me wrong Deidara is a cool guy, personality wise he is probably my second favorite, but just looking at the facts he is the weakest- but this does not mean he is weak Akatisuki is just full stronger people.
I really don't know Itachi's strength in Akatsuki. I do know the facts though. Deidara captured 2 bijuus (and is ready to go after more); Itachi couldn't even capture one. Deidara shown alot to prove he can defeat Kakuzu and Hidan, possibily beat Kisame as well without too much trouble (kind of like Gaara), and be quite a challenge to Sasori and Itachi, the latter of which who I can not see defeating him without the MS. Alot of people are undermining him because he doesn't have fancy jutsus like the MS when he fights pretty much like Shikimaru and Shino combined... while being one of the most mobile ninjas in the entire series.
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Old 2007-04-18, 00:17   Link #34
MobiuS
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Well, putting aside that Deidara doesn't have enough clay to make a whole army of spiders (more like several dozen atmost), Itachi has incredible speed and he is also an expert in the use of Shuirkens... really, if a bunch of spiders or speed birds were to come at Itachi he would more then likely blow them all up using shurikens before they could get close enough... any that he doesn't blow up he can avoid sing his speed and take another shot at them with his shurikens
A lot of bad assumptions here. We are assuming Deidara has little clay, and Itachi knows exactly what animal Deidara sent after him and that he has 360 vision and unlimited Kunai.

Great thinking. The fact that any small thing that moves could potentially kill you without Deidara even having to be on the battlefield is a lot.

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Y'know, last i checked, the whole MS thing that could practically kill you by looking at him; it's really quite the high level trick right there... and that works at ALL ranges, not just close or far... you even look at itachi and you can find yourself trapped in his genjutsu, one that is not easy to escape from... Gai seems to be the only one who can take on Itachi since he knows how to fight a high level oppenent by only looking at his feet, this is however a very rare trait that pretty much only Gai can pull off... the rest who try that would be placed at a great handicap... so much so that they won't stand a chance taking on Itachi
Another bad assumption. You assume Itachi has perfect visibility at all times (Flashbombs, Hidden Mist technique or variant) and that Itachi's opponent is even on the battlefield with him. In the case of Deidara or Sasori ... they can lauch a fullout attack without actually being there. WHo's Itachi going to MS? Every Puppet? Every animal? -_-


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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Kisame... ya, all those grat techniques of his can make him one of the stronger members, but not stronger than Itachi... really, all those techniques won't do him any good the moment he gets stuck in the MS genjutsu
Um. Lemme put it this way.

Kisame doesnt need to be close to you or make eye contact with you to summon the Ocean.

As much as touching this water is enough for him to Water Prison you. End of the game?
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Old 2007-04-18, 00:22   Link #35
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
Why are you making the MS sound so weak? It is a TIME/SPACE jutsu that appears instantly at the spot the MS user focuses on. You have to bear in mind that Deidara was flying at high speed and even though Kakashi is clumsy with it, it was still not too hard for him to keep his eyes on Deidara. If that was say Sasori Kakashi used that same MS jutsu on, Sasori was a goner. Bear in mind that Deidara was already at low energy from having to deal with Gaara, then evading the Sand village, then giving out more chakra to summon out Gaara's bijuu... all without having any rest... practically out of clay, and was missing an arm. Kakashi (and Naruto) had a HUGE advantage on Deidara... and both would had gotten killed again if it wasn't for the MS.
Actually from what we can tell, Deidara was much less fatigued than you may think... Deidara for thing claimed he had used up all of his clay during his fight with garra, but he was using it afterward; this means that he apperently had time to replenish his caly... Second of all, he showed no signs of fatigue, which is something ninjas usually show when they're low on chakra... plus despite admitting that Sasori was the stronger of the two, he volunteered to take on Naruto, meaning he was more then ready for another fight that could potentially be as hard as Garra's... So no, i don't think Deidara was suffering much from handicaps...

He was missing an arm at the begining, but thiat is not much of a handicap since Deidara does need both arms for his clay attacks; hence why he was rather unphased about loosing his arm to Garra... Normal ninjas need both hands just to form hand seals and also for fighting... Diedara however only needs one for his attacks and doesn't fight close range, so one lost arm isn't that big of a deal because he doesn't use it much anyway...

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I really don't know Itachi's strength in Akatsuki. I do know the facts though. Deidara captured 2 bijuus (and is ready to go after more); Itachi couldn't even capture one. Deidara shown alot to prove he can defeat Kakuzu and Hidan, possibily beat Kisame as well without too much trouble (kind of like Gaara), and be quite a challenge to Sasori and Itachi, the latter of which who I can not see defeating him without the MS. Alot of people are undermining him because he doesn't have fancy jutsus like the MS when he fights pretty much like Shikimaru and Shino combined... while being one of the most mobile ninjas in the entire series.
Not the reason i underestimate him... i just see how his kinds of attacks can be beaten/defended against...
Bascially anyone with a good level in Shuriken throwing has a chance of holding their own agianst Deidara... Itachi in particular would not need to use his MS since his high speed and expertese with Shurikens would blow up all of Deidara's clay dolls before they got close enough to do some damage... Kakashi as well showed that he's good enough to take out those clay dolls mid air (scary thought: someone as weak as TenTen may actually fit into this group... I tihnk Gai did boast about her never missing her target)... i would wager to guess that Naruto or Kisame could use clones to block the clay attacks... Kakuzu could basically just blow up the clay using those attacks from his masks (the attack tend to cover a fairly wide area); not to mention it's possible that the clay may have trouble breaking through Kakuzu's iron skin

the plus side to Deidara's technique is that he has some control over the clay, which allows the attacks to weave and dodge as they home in on their targets... however, the downside to this is that from what it seems the attacks tend to be slower compared to weapons like Shurikens... The former makes the attacks harder to hit, but the later makes them easier to see coming... If a ninja can see an attack coming they can find a way to defend themselves... Some use high level aim to destory the despite the fact that their moving, others have things that they can use as shield...

Hell, the biggest problem most ninja would face when dealing with Deidara is having an effective attack to use agianst him... On defence quite a few ninja seem like they could hold their own, but on offence it becomes troubling since long range techniques are needed... This would result in many sort of stalemates because Deidara may run out of clay and because he's flying his oppoentent can get him... and the reason i say "sort of" is because in a situation like this, Deidara would probably just retreat, and since he ran away, the victory goes to his oppenent... but it's still a kind of stalemate since the other ninja was unable to finish deidara off (though he could if he just had an effective long range attack)... though still, deidara's abilty to just run away like that is rather hollow for calling him strong... This is the only reason kakashi resorted to his MS to beat Deidara, because it was his ONLY long range attack, if he had any other attack he would have used that instead...
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Old 2007-04-18, 00:40   Link #36
EvolutionXI
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Originally Posted by MobiuS
As much as touching this water is enough for him to Water Prison you. End of the game?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you have to be near the person to imprison them with the water prison jutsu. The only two times we've seen it were from Zabuza and Kisame, and they both had to be next to the victim and have one arm holding it up (hence the 3 water clones to hold onto Neji, Lee, and Ten Ten). So he can't just summon the "ocean" and put a water sphere around you while running around miles away.

One more thing, I highly doubt Kisame uses all, or even 50% of his chakra to create a really huge "ocean". So Itachi (or anyone else who is capable) could try evaporating it with a fire jutsu (which the Uchiha are highly skilled at already). It would be similar to what the 2nd and 3rd hokage did during the Konoha invasion arc, except the order in which they're used.

So both your arguments that Kisame can eat all of a person's chakra (mentioned in my earlier post) and easily imprison them aren't really that sound.

Last edited by EvolutionXI; 2007-04-18 at 01:05.
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Old 2007-04-18, 00:52   Link #37
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
A lot of bad assumptions here. We are assuming Deidara has little clay, and Itachi knows exactly what animal Deidara sent after him and that he has 360 vision and unlimited Kunai.

Great thinking. The fact that any small thing that moves could potentially kill you without Deidara even having to be on the battlefield is a lot.

Another bad assumption. You assume Itachi has perfect visibility at all times (Flashbombs, Hidden Mist technique or variant) and that Itachi's opponent is even on the battlefield with him. In the case of Deidara or Sasori ... they can lauch a fullout attack without actually being there. WHo's Itachi going to MS? Every Puppet? Every animal? -_-
Itachi has very strong sences and his Sharigan is able to see chakra moving around... it wouldn't be all that easy to sneak up on Itachi... he is very quick to react and his sharigan can tell the difference between a clay powered animal and normal creature... Furtharmore, Iatchi doesn't need unlimited Kunai, just one for ever one of Deidara's clay dolls... really Itachi can predict movement with the Sharigan, has a very high level of aim with those Shurikens, and it only takes one shuirken to blow up those clay dolls; and if runs out of shurikens he can use some of his fire jutsus which are mid ranged attacks... they really don't stand a chance... also, For deidara to attack with his clay, he must be able to see his opponent, meaning he must be somewhere on the battlefiled watching... Not to Mention Itachi aswell can use Shadow clones which can not only help take out the little buggers but also hunt down Deidara...

Really, your seriosuly over estiamteing how hard it is to See Deidara's attack comign are... i mean, Garra, who isn't known for high speed (though good reflexes) and doesn't have Sharigan was able to see most of the attacks coming... Only a few times were they close calls on blocking... Itachi on the other hand would probably see the attack even sooner, and be able to counter/dodge the attack accordingly with his aim/speed

As for Sasori... know who the hell was talking about him... He is one that might be able to content with Itachi... i mean, the guy doesn't even have real eyes, would Itachi's Genjutsu still work on him... quite the question right there...

Quote:
Um. Lemme put it this way.

Kisame doesnt need to be close to you or make eye contact with you to summon the Ocean.

As much as touching this water is enough for him to Water Prison you. End of the game?
Actually, to pull off the water prison, Kisame has to atleast grab you with one of his clones in order to put you in a water prison... and though Kisame can use water clones to grab someone, itachi aswell as clones he can use... and Itachi is exactly going to be a very easy guy to catch... Not to mention Kisame isn't the type who who fights from long range letting his chakra do all the work, waht's the point of that sword of his if he doesn't use it... really you can't just consider the jutsu's a character is armed with, you must consider the characters themselves... Kisame COULD fight from long range like that, using big attacks and water clones to fight, but would he? absolutly not, it's out of character for him... really, there is a reason why Kisame considers Itachi his superior, and it just that he is crazy strong like that...
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Old 2007-04-18, 01:34   Link #38
Lex`
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 27
I'm gonna have to side with Mobius on this one. I think Deidara is one of the most deadly for the same reason I've always thought Shino was one of the most deadly of their group. The idea that you can send a shit ton of bugs, clay bugs or whatever at an enemy from afar and have them completely swarm you, while they chill back and just watch unable to be harmed greatly appeals to me.

Another plus, all genjutsu are (or at least should be) completely useless against something that's not even alive, ie Deidara's clay.

As for weakest...I guess i'd say Hidan, since the only thing he showed that he could do was his blood curse deal (even though it's pretty nasty) and it can be avoided fairly easy.
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Old 2007-04-18, 02:12   Link #39
MobiuS
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Itachi has very strong sences and his Sharigan is able to see chakra moving around... it wouldn't be all that easy to sneak up on Itachi... he is very quick to react and his sharigan can tell the difference between a clay powered animal and normal creature... Furtharmore, Iatchi doesn't need unlimited Kunai, just one for ever one of Deidara's clay dolls... really Itachi can predict movement with the Sharigan, has a very high level of aim with those Shurikens, and it only takes one shuirken to blow up those clay dolls; and if runs out of shurikens he can use some of his fire jutsus which are mid ranged attacks... they really don't stand a chance... also, For deidara to attack with his clay, he must be able to see his opponent, meaning he must be somewhere on the battlefiled watching... Not to Mention Itachi aswell can use Shadow clones which can not only help take out the little buggers but also hunt down Deidara...
Ok ... you've made your point. Now point out proof where::

- sharingan can tell the diff between a clay spider and a real one. if I recall correctly ... if it does have the same internal chakra system as a real spider ... he wouldnt know the difference.
- the clay puppets can be destroyed in one kunai (bear in mind the bird bomb that was crushed in Gaara's sand not detonating till Deidara wanted it to).
- Deidara has to be on the battlefield. (Didn't he use his bird to fly high over the city of Sand while raining his spiders and birds down?)
- Where Itachi has Kage Bushin.


Quote:
Really, your seriosuly over estiamteing how hard it is to See Deidara's attack comign are... i mean, Garra, who isn't known for high speed (though good reflexes) and doesn't have Sharigan was able to see most of the attacks coming... Only a few times were they close calls on blocking... Itachi on the other hand would probably see the attack even sooner, and be able to counter/dodge the attack accordingly with his aim/speed
Deidara sacrificed his arm to bomb Gaara. The entire fight was a well coordinated orchestra of doom. Gaara noticed only what Deidara wanted him to.


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As for Sasori... know who the hell was talking about him... He is one that might be able to content with Itachi... i mean, the guy doesn't even have real eyes, would Itachi's Genjutsu still work on him... quite the question right there...



Actually, to pull off the water prison, Kisame has to atleast grab you with one of his clones in order to put you in a water prison... and though Kisame can use water clones to grab someone, itachi aswell as clones he can use... and Itachi is exactly going to be a very easy guy to catch... Not to mention Kisame isn't the type who who fights from long range letting his chakra do all the work, waht's the point of that sword of his if he doesn't use it... really you can't just consider the jutsu's a character is armed with, you must consider the characters themselves... Kisame COULD fight from long range like that, using big attacks and water clones to fight, but would he? absolutly not, it's out of character for him... really, there is a reason why Kisame considers Itachi his superior, and it just that he is crazy strong like that...
1.) I dont recall Kisame using his sword versus Gai.
2.) I just narrated to you what Kisame did in his fight and you are telling me he doesnt fight like that?
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Old 2007-04-18, 02:29   Link #40
EvolutionXI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
- Where Itachi has Kage Bushin.
He creates one when he first appears in Konoha and fights Kakashi, which he then makes explode. This is right before he stars mentioning MS and uses it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
1.) I dont recall Kisame using his sword versus Gai.
2.) I just narrated to you what Kisame did in his fight and you are telling me he doesnt fight like that?
He actually does swing his sword at Gai, but Lee comes in and kicks it away. This is the first thing he does after summoning the water, if I recall correctly, which would imply that is his generally preferred style (melee with his sword). Even when fighting in Konoha during his first appearance, he fought with Samehada initially, and only used a suiton jutsu after he got a cut on his face.
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