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Old 2007-05-31, 01:21   Link #161
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Except your "giving him his due" wasn't as sincere as it could've been since your "anti-Kyoani & Aya Hirano bias" was still showing through your sarcasm.

It's not gonna get much better than "Good Call KyoAni" from me. I'm not going to lie and say I think the song is a masterpiece or that I think it was a divine bit of inspiration. I'm just going to say that Kyoto Animation did a good job in gauging the market, and that it paid of remarkably well.

I've also never been biased against Aya Hirano. I actually think this is her best role ever and she's doing wonders with the character in a loli-moe sort of way, which I didn't even know she could do. At least in my opinion. I still think her singing needs work though.

There's also no anti-Kyoani bias either, just a dislike of the fanboyism that tends to surround their work.
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Old 2007-05-31, 01:30   Link #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
It's not gonna get much better than "Good Call KyoAni" from me. I'm not going to lie and say I think the song is a masterpiece or that I think it was a divine bit of inspiration. I'm just going to say that Kyoto Animation did a good job in gauging the market, and that it paid of remarkably well.
I agree, except for the "gauging the market" thing which I believe that Kyoani didn't do.

Quote:
I've also never been biased against Aya Hirano. I actually think this is her best role ever and she's doing wonders with the character in a loli-moe sort of way, which I didn't even know she could do. At least in my opinion. I still think her singing needs work though.
Well put.

Quote:
There's also no anti-Kyoani bias either, just a dislike of the fanboyism that tends to surround their work.
All the fans, or just the more rabid ones? In either case, a well placed barb in their direction will do more than criticizing Kyoani when they don't deserve it.

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Old 2007-05-31, 01:33   Link #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
I agree, except for the "gauging the market" thing which I believe that Kyoani didn't do.

Well put.

All the fans, or just the more rabid ones? In either case, a well placed barb in their direction will do more than criticizing Kyoani when they don't deserve it.

This one has nothing to do with the rabid fans (The one's that are like Mr. Smithers to KyoAni's Mr. Burns). I'm being completely honest about my view on the opening single.
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Old 2007-05-31, 01:37   Link #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Except your "giving him his due" wasn't as sincere as it could've been since your "anti-Kyoani & Aya Hirano bias" was still showing through your sarcasm.

Okay... now you're just grasping for straws.


Personally, I think the MSF sequence had a lot more thought put into it than HHY. Also, the lyrics are much better and more interesting (and freakin' dirty, if you think about it: "Bon-bon (= bounce-bounce, IIRC) cherleaders, let's get cherry pie! Ran-ran, welcome party, you've got a sensation; HIGH!) that HHY. I still maintain that, as much as I love Haruhi and often find myself humming that omnipresent jingle, I think it's popularity comes solely from being attached to such a popular franchise rather than its actual merit as a song.
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Old 2007-05-31, 02:45   Link #165
Kaoru Chujo
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Kaioshin, I think you are wrong in your judgment of how hard it is to do what Yamamoto did in this OP. You seem to think you could do as well if you had the resources. This is ridiculous, in my opinion. The commercial calculation piece of the puzzle was important, but would have meant nothing without the artistic creation piece. If it were so easy, other people would have done it since HHY, and they haven't. Of course, subtly suggestive lyrics never hurt, lol.

And although I agree that Aaya is not the greatest singer, that is impossible to judge from this OP, where the voices are pretty well indistinguishable, at least to me. Moreover, to say that Aaya is the "most popular idol singer" seems an exaggeration. She probably isn't even the most popular idol seiyuu, although that's conceivable right now.

I do have to say that I respect your openness to this show, despite it being by a studio you have a (somewhat justified) grudge against, and I appreciate that you are giving your honest opinions, although I disagree with most of them, it seems.
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Old 2007-05-31, 03:17   Link #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Kaioshin, I think you are wrong in your judgment of how hard it is to do what Yamamoto did in this OP. You seem to think you could do as well if you had the resources. This is ridiculous, in my opinion. The commercial calculation piece of the puzzle was important, but would have meant nothing without the artistic creation piece. If it were so easy, other people would have done it since HHY, and they haven't. Of course, subtly suggestive lyrics never hurt, lol.
You know as much as I'd like to believe that artistic creation still plays a part in a songs success, recently that feeling has been all but killed as I've seen countless pieces that I've felt were incredibly well composed (such as Abingdon School Boys Howling) fall by the wayside to the latest song sung by a popular Idol Singer that sounds like about 10 other songs.

Basically it's like this. The state of music in Japan is that if you are Male Singer in the anime industy you're chances at success are crippled from the start unless you were an established act before the idol-pop trend kicked into full swing (like V6). Even the strongest effort is only likely to net you a middle tier success in sales and appreciation. By contrast even the weakest of efforts from someone like Nana Mizuki will result in mass popularity and lower high tier success in sales.

There's a definite gender bias (look at any blog or poll dealing with anime music and try to find a male singer name on the list where they are given a positive impression, you'll be lucky to find 1 in 50) in Japanese anime music these days and basically if you're a male anime singer, artisic creation honestly means nothing, if you're up against a female idol singer on the day of release, even if you've put together the best work of your life, it doesn't matter, your going to get smoked. However, if you're a female anime singer it can help somewhat. I guess in the case of Sailor Fuku since it was an all female effort the creativity probably had a bit to do with it (which is why it beat out Kotoko's Hayate song), but the market trends and the fact that Aya Hirano was singing (it didn't even matter that her voice was indistinguishable) had a lot more to do with it's overall success.

If at some point I even get the slightest indication that people even know who any of the male anime singers in the industry are, and that they appreciate their artisitic creativity this opinion will change. Until then though as far as I'm concerned artistic creativity means almost nothing in the anime music industry unless your an idol singer (in which case it's only enough to push you above the next most popular idol singer).
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Old 2007-05-31, 03:36   Link #167
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1. The #1 songs for the past four weeks have been by male singers. Stop thrashing around like this, coming up with new "dancing on the head of a pin" arguments about before and after some imagined trend began to justify your own preferences. You can't just invent things and deem them true without actually knowing.

2. Whether or not there is a bias against male singers, some songs by females outdo other songs by females.

3. There is always both a commercial and an artistic component. That you don't like the same songs other people do is beside the point. For me, the best OP/ED right now -- especially in terms of singing skill -- are from Hitohira, but I don't expect them to be in the top ten, since they are my taste and not others'.

4. In some Japanese polls, like the Animage one posted recently in the General Anime/Voice Actor thread, males occupied the top positions. We are far more interested in female seiyuu on AnimeSuki and 2channel, but Japanese magazines, etc., have the genders in much closer balance.
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Old 2007-05-31, 11:16   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
1. The #1 songs for the past four weeks have been by male singers. Stop thrashing around like this, coming up with new "dancing on the head of a pin" arguments about before and after some imagined trend began to justify your own preferences. You can't just invent things and deem them true without actually knowing.

2. Whether or not there is a bias against male singers, some songs by females outdo other songs by females.

3. There is always both a commercial and an artistic component. That you don't like the same songs other people do is beside the point. For me, the best OP/ED right now -- especially in terms of singing skill -- are from Hitohira, but I don't expect them to be in the top ten, since they are my taste and not others'.

4. In some Japanese polls, like the Animage one posted recently in the General Anime/Voice Actor thread, males occupied the top positions. We are far more interested in female seiyuu on AnimeSuki and 2channel, but Japanese magazines, etc., have the genders in much closer balance.
#1: Fair enough, but V6 is also one of the most established group in Japan so they had just enough of popularity to push them ahead to the top. As you said though it happened so maybe I was thrashing around a bit and here's why (This ties in nicely to the second part of your first point). I haven't justified my preferences, I never will be able to since they are so far outside the norm of the average anime fan that I'll always be getting "are you right in the head" toned posts from other posters across the internet. I should probably stop trying. As a result for the first time in a while I'm am genuinely upset and so I made my previous post in this thread without considering a number of things. Sorry.

#2: Yes.

#3: Yes, but I sincerely think the that the ratio is 80% commercial and 20% artistic.

#4: I've noticed regarding AS and 2channel, and well.... I hope someday that the male seiyuu and singers get a better reputation or at least people learn who they are. That would be nice.

My main worry here isn't that my favourite song didn't win though, what I'm more worried about is that as a result of the songs record breaking success, that studios are going to jump on the bandwagon and start a copycat thing going. Then, as a result my culture of anime music is going to be beaten back even further by idol-pop (which I only care for a very specific type of) and I'm going to have nothing new to listen too regarding my preferences for the next couple of years at least. Also if idol-pop isn't the current trend and the mainstream of anime music, what is? Whatever the case if it is indeed imagined and there isn't an idol-pop trend, there sure as heck is gonna be one now. As long as they allow some room for music that appeals to my taste though I couldn't care less.
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Old 2007-06-02, 17:29   Link #169
Kaoru Chujo
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I thought that Motteke would just drop out of sight after week one. Kotoko's Hayate OP has been gone from the top 20 since Monday. And Motteke started on Monday down at #8, then plummeted to #16 on Tuesday. But it has climbed steadily since than, and is suddenly back at #4 on the chart for Friday: #8 --> #16 --> #14 --> #12 --> #4.

Of course, you can put all this in perspective when you realize that the comeback single by Onitsuka Chihiro -- the best pop singer in the world, in my opinion -- never got higher than #5. She has been out of action for almost two years with throat problems, but I can't hear it in her new song, everyhome, which was released Wednesday, the same day as L'Arc-en-Ciel's Seventh Heaven and aiko's Shiawase.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2007-06-02 at 17:42.
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Old 2007-06-02, 18:55   Link #170
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
My main worry here isn't that my favourite song didn't win though, what I'm more worried about is that as a result of the songs record breaking success, that studios are going to jump on the bandwagon and start a copycat thing going. Then, as a result my culture of anime music is going to be beaten back even further by idol-pop (which I only care for a very specific type of) and I'm going to have nothing new to listen too regarding my preferences for the next couple of years at least. Also if idol-pop isn't the current trend and the mainstream of anime music, what is? Whatever the case if it is indeed imagined and there isn't an idol-pop trend, there sure as heck is gonna be one now. As long as they allow some room for music that appeals to my taste though I couldn't care less.
Idol-related crap being at the top rankings is by no means restricted to Japan and its anime. Look at Western charts. I used to download English songs from what I see on the Billboard, and by about a couple months ago I stopped trying to filter out the good stuff from the bad. I'm not searching on Wikipedia on bands for 50 songs just to get those 2 that I actually like.

The part about corporate strategy, like any strategy tailored for a large population, is to exploit the idiots as much as possible. It's the same everywhere, and as long as the same big guys keep on producing, they can get away with a Top 10, guaranteed.

It will stay like this till the end of time, as long as there are idiots. I'll give you credit for questioning the trend, which marks you an intellectual. This is exactly why we music junkies don't take the mainstream and instead look elsewhere. Be proud of it.

Last edited by Claies; 2007-06-02 at 19:33.
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Old 2007-06-03, 00:28   Link #171
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Onitsuka Chihiro -- the best pop singer in the world, in my opinion -- never got higher than #5. She has been out of action for almost two years with throat problems, but I can't hear it in her new song, everyhome, which was released Wednesday, the same day as L'Arc-en-Ciel's Seventh Heaven and aiko's Shiawase.
Oh snap! Onitsuka Chihiro is back?!!? GETTO DAZE!!

Thanks for the heads up. I never would've found out.
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Old 2007-06-03, 01:16   Link #172
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Oricon looks to me to be very grounded in popularity, but I did find some opinion pieces written by buyer's on Amazon.jp which I can paraphrase here:

5 out of 5 stars: I've finally received my single of Motekke Sailor Fuku and the rhythm is good after all, dom't you think? Without realizing it is the type of song you can loop over and over again. It's the kind of song that is hard to get out of one's head.

4 Out of 5 Stars: With the lyrics card the song becomes more comprehendible. However, the buyer should be careful not to lose the card as without being able to deciphere the lyrics, enjoyment may suffer a bit.

3 Out of 5 stars: The style of the song is very fast paced and hard to understand, but looking a the lyrics card the overall message becomes much clearer. The overall amount of lyrics is quite extensive for the full version, but overall it felt like a completely different thing. It is not the easiest song to get used to, but after a few playthroughs it becomes more accessible to the average listener. The composer of the instrumental section could use a little practice and this section brings down the overall quality of the song somewhat. If the buyer is looking for a good instrumental piece of music they may be disappointed with this one.

2 Out of 5 Stars: The single is more of an overall commodity and those who are not of a fan of the TV Anime are not likely to be interested. The song count on the CD is somewhat low, compared to the usual 4 songs on the single, there are only three here. Once again if one is not a fan of the TV anime there appraisal is likely to be much lower.

1 Out of 5 Stars: This song is simply put, terrible. The lyrics are shouted out from the beginning to the end without any room for moderation and do not match the melody. The song is merely riding the popularity of the anime and studio. The song is truly offensive to hear and does not come recommended.

Okay it's me again. So these are some of the different viewpoints on the song that I chose to list based off a one per different ranking basis. Hopefully this gives a more qualitative view of the song as it is seen by Japanese buyers compared to Oricon.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-06-03 at 02:54.
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Old 2007-06-03, 01:34   Link #173
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I think I'll steer back towards topic.

Is there any word for character albums so far? I hope they don't commit the same faux pas along with the Haruhi character albums (repeating Hare Hare Yukai until they started changing styles around Vol.6). Motteke! Sailor Fuku would sound awkward when sung by a single person anyways.
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Old 2007-06-03, 06:20   Link #174
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Is there any word for character albums so far?.
The clostest thing at the moment we have to do character albums is the ED album, which shall feature the ED songs we've heard so far --- though i'm not to sure where it'll end, and when a second ED album shall appear.
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Old 2007-06-03, 14:20   Link #175
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As of episode 9 Aya Hirano has done 6 of the endings while each of the other girls have done one each. That's 2/3 of the opening going to her. Honestly I hope they give the others more a chance soon, because I think they all have something to show. They are really starting to overuse Konata songs for the ending and if they want to sell any of the other character albums they should move to correct this. Tsukasa is insanely popular, even moreso than Konata it would seem, so they should probably start with her. If the other girls do get a chance it's likely to be Tsukasa again first as if she's not the most popular she's at least the second most popular and I think that's what they are going by when deciding a lot of things for the show.
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:17   Link #176
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Actually, it appears that Tsukasa is (or was as of 25 May) the only one of the four who is less popular than Konata among 2channel voters, who are probably a better representation of core audience popularity than AnimeSuki is:

rank -- votes -- name
1位 118票 Kagami
2位 106票 Miyuki
3位 85票 Konata
4位 60票 Tsukasa
5位 32票 Akira

Personally, I'm not going to complain about hearing as many Hirano Aya songs as possible, but I agree that they should get the others singing more. I liked Katou Emiri's singing voice, the one time we heard it. But I'm not ready to second-guess the marketing experts just yet. Although I can't believe they're not going to go for character albums at some point.

I don't believe there is any real evidence that the popularity of individual characters is "what they are going by when deciding a lot of things for the show." The show was probably planned out months ago and each episode written at least weeks ago. If they were going by apparent popularity in Japan, we would be seeing a lot more Miyuki.

By the way, today was the first time I saw Hirano actually mention Motteke Seeraafuku in her blog, where she thanked fans for making it #2, and said it would encourage her to work even harder on her role in the show. I'm probably imagining it, but I have a strange feeling she's not happy with her performance. Maybe even she doesn't actually get the humor, lol.

About the #2 place, she said なんだか実感わかないです, which I don't quite understand. If someone else does, I'd love to know what it means. Does she mean she doesn't quite believe it, or that she can't figure out why, or something else?
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:24   Link #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
About the #2 place, she said なんだか実感わかないです, which I don't quite understand. If someone else does, I'd love to know what it means. Does she mean she doesn't quite believe it, or that she can't figure out why, or something else?
Basically, she doesn't understand someone's true feelings on something. Without context, that's the best I can do.
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:34   Link #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Actually, it appears that Tsukasa is (or was as of 25 May) the only one of the four who is less popular than Konata among 2channel voters, who are probably a better representation of core audience popularity than AnimeSuki is:

rank -- votes -- name
1位 118票 Kagami
2位 106票 Miyuki
3位 85票 Konata
4位 60票 Tsukasa
5位 32票 Akira

Personally, I'm not going to complain about hearing as many Hirano Aya songs as possible, but I agree that they should get the others singing more. I liked Katou Emiri's singing voice, the one time we heard it. But I'm not ready to second-guess the marketing experts just yet. Although I can't believe they're not going to go for character albums at some point.

I don't believe there is any real evidence that the popularity of individual characters is "what they are going by when deciding a lot of things for the show." The show was probably planned out months ago and each episode written at least weeks ago. If they were going by apparent popularity in Japan, we would be seeing a lot more Miyuki.

By the way, today was the first time I saw Hirano actually mention Motteke Seeraafuku in her blog, where she thanked fans for making it #2, and said it would encourage her to work even harder on her role in the show. I'm probably imagining it, but I have a strange feeling she's not happy with her performance. Maybe even she doesn't actually get the humor, lol.

About the #2 place, she said なんだか実感わかないです, which I don't quite understand. If someone else does, I'd love to know what it means. Does she mean she doesn't quite believe it, or that she can't figure out why, or something else?
She seems to be saying she's ecstatic, but doesn't think it's right from what I can gather. I get "Is it true, it just doesn't feel right". Maybe she knows about the campaign and harbours a bit of doubt in her abilities, modesty and humility and what not. With this she seems to be grateful and seems to say she wants to convert the support into something she can give her fans.

I'm not trying to detract from her efforts or anything, I'm just guessing as I'm not her.

I'm going to pay for suggesting this I just know it.
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Old 2007-06-03, 21:50   Link #179
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Basically, she doesn't understand someone's true feelings on something. Without context, that's the best I can do.
I knew I should have quoted the whole thing instead of just linking to the blog where it appeared:

曖昧③センチ☆

すごーぃo(>∀<)o
『もってけ!セーラーふく』
オリコン②位☆
ありがとぅございます!
なんだか実感わかないです(>д<)
ほんとにすごい事ですよね!!
みなさんに大感謝!!
ありがとぉぉお!!!
この勢いに乗っかって、本編の方も頑張るぞぉ!!

Contrary to Kaioshin's apprehensions, what he understands is what I do (tentatively). I just couldn't quite believe she'd say it -- or that she'd believe it, since I think she's doing great, and I enjoy the song.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2007-06-03 at 22:37.
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Old 2007-06-03, 22:07   Link #180
Kaioshin Sama
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here nor There
Age: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I knew I should have quoted the whole thing instead of just linking to the blog where it appeared:

曖昧③センチ☆

すごーぃo(>∀<)o
『もってけ!セーラーふく』
オリコン②位☆
ありがとぅございます!
なんだか実感わかないです(>д<)
ほんとにすごい事ですよね!!
みなさんに大感謝!!
ありがとぉぉお!!!
この勢いに乗っかって、本編の方も頑張るぞぉ!!

Contrary to Kaioshin's apprehensions, what he understands is what I do (tentatively). I just couldn't quite believe she'd say it.
She's probably just showing humility. It's a sign of class. I respect that in people.
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