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View Poll Results: how much are you willing to give up for the society
option 1 none (option explanations on the 1st post) 9 21.95%
option 2 reasonable amount of wealth (less) 13 31.71%
option 3 large amount of wealth (more) 7 17.07%
option 4 certain security issues 3 7.32%
option 5 certain rights 4 9.76%
option 6 life and ... 2 4.88%
option 7 other.. 3 7.32%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-04-20, 00:43   Link #1
whatever001
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how much are you willing to give up for the society

this is a poll about Individualism versus collectivism, however we know that no one is completely selfish or selfless, we are all somewhere in between. As the debate of gun control gets longer (and hotter?), it may be helpful if we know the social characteristics of animesuki chat group.. so I decided to take a poll, it was made by myself, so it's not perfect(not even good?).. but still take it if you can..provide additional info as follow-ups, it will help us understand more about the culture diversity here...


option. 1 none (or close to none, I put it there just in case)

option 2 reasonable amount of wealth (less) (charity and so on, as long as it won't affect your finaicial statue)

option 3 large amount of wealth (more) (amount that will change your finaicial statue, even with the possibility of near bankruptcy)

option 4 certain security issues (e.g. refuse to own gun even though it maybe more "unsafe", celeberities/public figures give up bullet proof limo.. or any thing seems to unenviromental friendly and other...)

option 5 certain rights (e.g. the rights to have children, decided not to or have 1 due to global population problems....

option 6 life and so on (for heros who try to defend the society..little controversal though..)

option 7 other.. (do I need a reason? but plz explain the reasons as follow up thanks)

warning:
0. no martians allowed we only deal with the known society
1. choose carefully ( )
2. choose for yourself (don't be embrassed even if you choose the first option)
3. don't tell me you give up the birth control right for God... god is not included in this "society" in the survey.(as same as warning 0) so becareful..
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Old 2007-04-20, 00:58   Link #2
Vexx
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Not a bad try for a poll though there seem to be some orthogonality issues (i.e. its not totally sequential from choice to choice).

I went with option 3 assuming that in exchange for wealth, we'd be building an extensive societal safety net (medical care, mass transit, public education, affordable housing, etc) with it.
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Old 2007-04-20, 01:15   Link #3
whatever001
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Not a bad try for a poll though there seem to be some orthogonality issues (i.e. its not totally sequential from choice to choice).

I went with option 3 assuming that in exchange for wealth, we'd be building an extensive societal safety net (medical care, mass transit, public education, affordable housing, etc) with it.
yeah..esp. option 4,5,6,.. the phrase "give me liberty or give me death" showed the difference in valuing each part.. and It's too late to edit it to multiple choice..

however, it's just a poll, the interpretation of result is lefted to those who are interested...
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Old 2007-04-20, 02:26   Link #4
TinyRedLeaf
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It was a bit hard to choose a few of the options because they are a bit too open-ended?

For example, which rights do you specifically refer to by "certain rights"? I'm willing to give up some rights to free speech, because it is too easy for a demagogue to stir up all kinds of dangerous violence through hate-filled propaganda. But I'm not going to give up a woman's right to choose abortion, for example.

Given that ambiguity, I chose 4 -- I would gladly give up "security issues". It's not a civilian's business to go around packing a gun. I would much rather have a society where, if you have no official business for wearing a gun, then the automatic assumption would be that you're up to no good if you carry one.
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Old 2007-04-20, 02:41   Link #5
whatever001
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It was a bit hard to choose a few of the options because they are a bit too open-ended?

For example, which rights do you specifically refer to by "certain rights"? I'm willing to give up some rights to free speech, because it is too easy for a demagogue to stir up all kinds of dangerous violence through hate-filled propaganda. But I'm not going to give up a woman's right to choose abortion, for example.

Given that ambiguity, I chose 4 -- I would gladly give up "security issues". It's not a civilian's business to go around packing a gun. I would much rather have a society where, if you have no official business for wearing a gun, then the automatic assumption would be that you're up to no good if you carry one.
emm.. that's why we need to choose carefully..
it also related to the term "for the society", usually it's for the goodness of society.. I won't give up the right for women's abortion at the current situation neither 'cause it's not very good for the society by concerning about population problems and other issues.. however, if we migrated to mars (martians?), and the population is endangered, I might give that right up for the society. however since it's the matter of martians (things we don't worry about), so for me, I won't put give up abortion rights as good for the society. however, there are ppl think it is good, but that's their business.. I choose only for myself and with my understanding of "for the society"..
it might be different views/results from different ppl, but willingness to give up rights is still somewhat similar..(just like soldier fight their own unique nation.. different view, but similar in devotion...)
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Old 2007-04-20, 17:57   Link #6
WanderingKnight
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Truly, I don't see too much point to this. I'd rather call for an actual, theoretical debate on the concept of individualism, rather than looking around for answers from a world based in the fragmentation of society. Not that I wanna ruin the party, but the concept of "how much you're willing to give up for the society" is quite ambiguous and lacking actual substance in an already too individualistic society.

I voted anyways--option 5. Not that it holds any meaning, because when things get really spicy is when the individualism of the current system is certainly shown, not when I'm lazily sitting at my PC desk, typing away.
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Old 2007-04-20, 20:55   Link #7
ibreatheanime
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Truthfully this question is extremly open ended...perhaps I would give my life to stop violence in society forever, however I may just want to pay a bit more in taxes to help fund health programs. If I don't have a more specific question its hard for me to answer this poll.
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Old 2007-04-21, 01:40   Link #8
Aoie_Emesai
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I believe there's a certain degree of individualism that should be loss for a society to properly prosper. Without a order, we would probably turn back in to a county divided into many self governing states with different agenda for their own future. I think total freedom is a fallacy created by humans to justice for themselves because they cannot control their own path. If you believe in absolute, you better be prepared to receive no help for anyone and become 100% self sufficient. I don't believe mankind has survived very long with companionship. That's what we have created, a world society in which we rely on each other for survival. (an ant colony, foresay, you know what I mean ^_^)

I rather think it's impossible for one man/woman to stop social decay without military strength to back him/her up. Without a strong (very strong) force to enforce the ideal of ones society, nothing can be achieved. I don't want a whole group of separated agrarian society in which neither one state has the power or capital to invest in something worth while or progressive.

I don't think I can give up my life for society, but rather... what I can do for society as a human rather than a scapegoat or anything of that nature. I think I can affect society as a whole without giving my life as the ultimate price. I can only give my life to save or protect those near me, not someone who I have never met or seen. I have no obligation to mankind, my duties are with the people I know, live, work, school, play with, not Bill Gates, not Bush, not Dick Cheney. I can't really affect the world as a whole, i've already accepted that.

ex. If society thought killing was ok, then murders would be so bad, but this isn't so.

A question like this cannot be answered by one person, but rather a collection of ideas and beliefs of many agreed on a median rejecting and accepting ideas from many, in which we have developed a thing called "Government." Of course it's not perfect, but we strive to become perfect. I would say for out case "perfect" is the agreement of the many ideals/thoughts/anticipation of our society. Correct or not, what the majority believes in is what we can consider right. Our views changes as we move into the future, so any acceptance today may be an abomination tomorrow.

ex. VA tech school shooting, now all Asian are suspicious.

ps: Enough of this, I can talk about philosophy and ethics all morning long. And if I was forced to choose one, option 5 is what I would choose. But I'm not gonna vote either way.
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Last edited by Aoie_Emesai; 2007-04-21 at 02:17. Reason: cause i love to type, no of course not.
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Old 2007-04-21, 09:33   Link #9
felix
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Mmm..
Define "sociaty" today.
...
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Old 2007-04-21, 10:40   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Mmm..
Define "sociaty" today.
...
I don't think I can answer that. But I can give you this.

Society - an extended social group having a distinctive cultural and economic organization

Our happy prosperous world in which we have given up on ^_^, i suppose. Sorta hard to describe it. >.<

But usually when I talk about society I usually talk about the society as a whole, the entire earths populations.
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Old 2007-04-21, 12:15   Link #11
felix
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That's good enough.
My point is that sociaty as stated by the opening poster is refering only to companies or some form of organisation that would be similar. Since we don't generally donate to social organisations or movements with money.
-------------------------------
So is the question at hand how much of a company investor I am? I wonder...
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Old 2007-04-21, 13:18   Link #12
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I am willing to give up some money to help society. Like other said, hiring police officers, fire fighters, built school and hire more teacher. On the hand I am never going to be willing to contribute my tax dollars so 20 year old who doesn't believed in working can live off my tax dollars. If you are old, infirm or disable fine, society should have a obligation to take care of you but not if you are young, healthy and just damn lazy.
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Old 2007-04-23, 09:40   Link #13
Aoie_Emesai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
I am willing to give up some money to help society. Like other said, hiring police officers, fire fighters, built school and hire more teacher. On the hand I am never going to be willing to contribute my tax dollars so 20 year old who doesn't believed in working can live off my tax dollars. If you are 60 and diable fine, society should have a obligation to take care of you but not if you are 20 and healthy and just damn lazy.
Hahaha ^_^, that's very agreeable.
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Old 2008-02-15, 19:03   Link #14
Gemstar
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Depends on how much they ask of me, I don't have a pre-set amount of whatever I'd give up for them.
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Old 2008-02-16, 03:29   Link #15
Kang Seung Jae
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In short:

The nation is above all, except for wasteful use of human lives.


There you have it, extreme collectivism


Also, I suppose giving up 3 million dollars yet still not in bankruptcy would be choice 2?
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Old 2008-02-16, 03:51   Link #16
Archontic
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I'm willing to donate a dime to the March of the Dimes. That's about it.

To be honest, nothing I have can make any difference that won't be erased within less than a year. I've never been particularly patriotic towards the USA. I could go on a lengthy and futile diatribe, but I think that half of the stuff I could say is what people already know. I won't patronize you guys by pointing out the obvious.

I do little things, though, like holding doors for everybody wherever I go, helping people pick things up, paying the leftovers for someone who looks down on their luck at the store, standing up for people even if I don't know them, give the last of anything to someone else, and stuff like that. I don't have a reason; it's just part of what makes me who I am. Couldn't help it if I tried.
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Old 2008-02-16, 04:00   Link #17
Spectacular_Insanity
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I picked option 4. Civil liberties are all well and good, but won't help us in wartime. Civil RIGHTS I won't give up, or anything in the Constitution, but anything else... I could care less.
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Old 2008-02-16, 04:19   Link #18
Irenicus
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I believe it was Adam Smith or some other classical economist of his tradition claimed, rather convincingly, that selfishness can be beneficial to all in more situations than we would like to admit.

'Tis a rather interesting perspective in the bipolar debate of individual vs. society. A truly effective society would successfully harness the Selfish Gene for the improvement of all, as opposed to requiring individual members to make unprofitable trade-offs against their natural interests.

...more or less. There are always exceptions.

Moreover, when a situation calls for individually unprofitable sacrifices, a smart society covers it all up in sweet packages and convinces people that it's actually somehow in their interests to sacrifice.

/so says a Leftist
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Old 2008-02-16, 10:18   Link #19
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i'll go with option 7. maybe i'm a bit too wishy-washy sometimes, and i always prefer that i always get a chance to cut my losses and take a step back. basically, i'd shift from option 1 to 6 depending on whats best.
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Old 2008-02-16, 11:48   Link #20
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None..

If something will work out bad for me, then I won't do it. If something works out good for me, then I'll do it. If not bad or good, then I won't do it either.

Helping kids in africa? What good comes from that towards me??
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