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Old 2007-04-29, 21:21   Link #21
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever123
You kind of reminded me with this thread

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...light=Bullying
Not that morbid......

Although there are links between school bullying and teenage suicides in Japan, it's not really what I wanted to explore.

Quote:
The problem with bullying is that every one tries to tackle it from one side when it should be tackled both ways (the bully and the one being bullied).
You're right of course, but if the responses here are anything to go by, it seems that in most cases, it's only the victim who tries to adjust. Tackling the bully requires a third-party, preferably someone who has authority over the bully, such as a parent, teacher or boss. And I think that's where the failure generally lies -- the relevant authority does not take effective measures to stop the bullying.

Bullies are cowards at heart. There are many ways of interpreting their behaviour, but in the end, they belittle or harass other people to boost their self-esteem. Obviously, to do that, they target the vulnerable.

And loners are particularly vulnerable to bullying behaviour.

I guess I've been lucky in that I don't have any conscious memory of being bullied. I don't know if it's because the bad memories have been blanked out. And back in high school, I did have my fair share of weird classmates. My good friend (and current colleague; yup we've been friends for over 15 years) reminisced the other day about an ex-classmate who came up to him one day and said, "Look, I can count up to 32 on one hand."

We had a good laugh. Reflecting on it, I realise that we were such a collection of dorks! We had Maths geniuses, Science geniuses and linguistic geniuses -- all of whom I suspect would be prime targets of bullying in any other culture.

People who don't fit in -- when you look at it closer, you'd often find that it's because they "see" and "feel" things in ways that people around them don't. So, I've come to wonder how easy/difficult it is to reach out to loners in the first place. It's never easy being different, isn't it?
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Old 2007-04-29, 21:50   Link #22
Wosho128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
People who don't fit in -- when you look at it closer, you'd often find that it's because they "see" and "feel" things in ways that people around them don't. So, I've come to wonder how easy/difficult it is to reach out to loners in the first place. It's never easy being different, isn't it?
You hit the nail right on the head. Most loners or outcasts are different. (Not in the "I'm better than you" way) But they have different cognitions and perceptions than other people do. Thus, they don't fit in.

But is "fitting in" really all that important? I know that on Maslow's hierarchy of needs that people need to feel accepted. However, why should people feel the need to be accepted? Shouldn't they just be themselves? I think that it's ridiculous for an individual to modify themselves just to fit into a group.

So if a loner is content with their lifestyle, they should continue doing what they're doing.

If a loner is unhappy, I think that person needs to find a hobby or something they are passionate about. (Not relating to self-harm, drugs, or any degrading acts of behavior) If they can't find that passion, they need to find ONE person that will listen to their problems.
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Old 2007-04-29, 22:41   Link #23
Fruitfly
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This topic got me thinking of a guy who went to my high school.

There was this one guy in high school who was a bit odd. He would suddenly pretend that he was being electrocuted and speak to himself. I had to sit beside him in one of my classes. He wouldn't speak to me even when I was asking him school related questions. So I bugged him and I guess I was bullying him without knowing because I was trying to get him to open up.

People kept telling me to ignore him but I kept trying to talk to him. One day he blew up and dug his nails into my arm until I was bleeding in the middle of class. So I stopped talking to him.

He ended up without any friends which is sad because we had the some same interests too.

So I guess theres bullies who don't even realize that they're bullies and some bullies have good intentions.

He might have seen it as bullying and he took action, but i guess in my defense, I could say he was bullying me by ignoring me no?

Last edited by Fruitfly; 2007-04-30 at 20:34.
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Old 2007-04-29, 23:11   Link #24
talanyth
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Growing up I guess you can say that I was rarely bullied, being a girl taller than everyone in your immidate and next grade helps. I guess you can count me as a Bully of Bullies, since I did not think it was right for older/larger kids to pick on the smaller and defenseless. To explain what I mean... I see a little kid being picked on by another and the kid is defenseless. I would then interveine asking the larger one if he/she wanted me to try the same tatic on them. Needless to say it resolved the issue rather quickly. ^.^

I think some of the problem of being a victom is that some people really want to help out and to be accepted. Heck most of us start out as wanting to be friend with EVERYONE. But learn as we age that you have to let others come to you on their terms. Living in a 'Instant Gratification" glorifying society does not help.

For victoms and bullys:

1) I would say to invest in your 'SELF'. Find those things that interest you, get involved with it, and then you are more likely to find people who have something in common with what you enjoy.

2) Remember that everyone wants to be accepted for who they reallly 'ARE'. That means you need to accept yourself for who you are, accept those around you for who they are, and understand that sometimes you need to accept some people cannot accept who you are and so should avoid them. (Yes, scars, baggage, ect.)


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Old 2007-04-29, 23:43   Link #25
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wosho128
But is "fitting in" really all that important? I know that on Maslow's hierarchy of needs that people need to feel accepted. However, why should people feel the need to be accepted? Shouldn't they just be themselves? I think that it's ridiculous for an individual to modify themselves just to fit into a group.

So if a loner is content with their lifestyle, they should continue doing what they're doing.
I'm actually more familiar with being "alone in a crowd" than I'd care to be.

I'd say that it takes a very long while to be comfortable in "your own skin", and even then, I'm not 100% certain that it's a road worth following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by talanyth
1) I would say to invest in your 'SELF'. Find those things that interest you, get involved with it, and then you are more likely to find people who have something in common with what you enjoy.

2) Remember that everyone wants to be accepted for who they reallly 'ARE'. That means you need to accept yourself for who you are, accept those around you for who they are, and understand that sometimes you need to accept some people cannot accept who you are and so should avoid them. (Yes, scars, baggage, ect.)
That's actually the best advice I can think of as well.

Personally, I feel that being on your own isn't a good thing in the long run. Life is meant to be shared, and staying alone -- well -- it's a life less lived.

I think the great challenge is when you come across really "weird" individuals (such as Fruitfly's example). What should be the best way forward? Not bullying, not ignore. But how to engage? That is the real question.

I'm suddenly reminded of To Kill a Mockingbird, haha. Namely, how Scout eventually learns how to befriend her mysterious neighbour, Boo.
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Old 2007-04-30, 09:10   Link #26
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Lonewolf, that brings back memories. Till i reached 18, my education days sucked with bullies and delinquents. After that ive got no respect for adults, like teachers and seniors of society. Since during that age sucked like hell, i also hate anyone who are young boy and happy. Yes, this can have terrible effect on your psyche, and it leaves a dent on your brain a lot. I think i would be happier now if i didint got into that situation.

I was not necessarily bullied like a weakling, i was more like outcasted and feels like exiled. I got into fights but i never surrendered. People too affraid to come close to me because they dont want to be targeted because of me. Yeah, bullies are cowards and so are the people around you. Even teachers bully me because of self esteem? Why cant they get it by their own self. Just because of that, they want to drive people to suicide. Thats not an excuse, theyre simply a pile of trash who love to hurt people,greedy and egoistic. Ive been in a place where deliquent boys rape girls and beat students to death, luckily for me, i didint ended up like that because i was physically strong.

Well standing up to them is a brave or foolish. Its probrably better to be a coward and let the strong rule, but god didint give me this capacity to submit. Even when my parents beaten me, ive never submitted. I wish i was a loser who gets admired by some girl like in animes.
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Old 2007-04-30, 23:43   Link #27
zoozoc
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i kinda have the mindset that either you are the bully or you get bullied, though usually a little of both. Very rarely can anyone say they have never bullied someone to a degree, wether it was obvious or not.
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Old 2007-05-01, 13:18   Link #28
Honey_and_Cleaver
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Originally Posted by zoozoc View Post
i kinda have the mindset that either you are the bully or you get bullied, though usually a little of both. Very rarely can anyone say they have never bullied someone to a degree, wether it was obvious or not.
Its not easy to bully others unless you want to suck other peoples balls, become a coward ,act like a supporting horn for others and become cheap.
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Old 2007-05-01, 21:02   Link #29
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But have you noticed bullying works differently between boys and girls?
Girls: mostly is gossip, destroying reputation, fashion criticism and such.
Boys: more of a physical attack from your peers.

Personally they tried the bullying, but one way or another i got back at them so they tried not to do it with me I could say i didn't bully I was more of trying to protect my friends and stuff so that took most of my time. Just imagine a guy hiding behind me (a girl) while i kicked their sorry a$$e$. -_-
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Old 2007-05-02, 01:50   Link #30
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I think a lot of the effects of bullying just depend on how the person being bullied reacts to it.

All the way up until high school I was a prime bully target. I got picked on a lot, probably mostly because I didn't fight back. (that and also because I was the "smart kid" and the teacher's pet and I was short and chubby and had big pink glasses. >_>;;; ) But this didn't really make me a loner. I still tried to make friends. In fact, I was always the one making friends with the lone-wolf types and the social rejects. (Which made me fall victim to even more bullying. It was a vicious cycle! )

I just dealt with it by ignoring them as best as I could. Sometimes it was hard to act completely indifferent when you were being pushed in the sand or having your hair pulled, but I think I did pretty good! And in much later years when those people who picked on me matured and stopped being meanies, I even became friends with some of them.

It wasn't an easy way to spend my younger years, but I don't regret it because I feel it just made me a stronger and more accepting person. I'm generally very well-liked now and I don't have any problems making friends or accepting people who others may not. I get along well with all sorts. I sometimes wonder if I would be the same person I am if I didn't go through those things in elementary school and junior high. If I was popular from the start and hung out only with the "cool" crowd, would I have become just like them? Would I have been one of the ones tormenting others? I'm not sure, but if it took some hard knocks to make me stronger, then I'd say it was worth it. Not that that justifies bullying, though, so nobody get any ideas.
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Old 2007-05-02, 02:24   Link #31
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aah bulllying... to be honest ive be bullied for over 12 years, im not sure why even now

i was a bit strange for the kids in my class maybe, i would always draw things and be very quiet... this was mostly because i had loads of troubles at home and it was affecting my behavoir and because i hardly did sports that involved balls, im not sure what it is called but i flip out when people throw somehthing at me i got a ball-o-phobia lol, ... however i did always hang out with the populair kids but they would only hang with me if their own friends didnt have time or when they would have an argument, loads of the tims when i would come by my friends house we would play with the 3 of us but after an hour or so i would just hear an excuse that they wanted to play with each other and so i left... other than that i went through phases in which they would shout names at me, wouldnt touch me or start screaming EEUWH! as soon as they saw me, even on the other side of the street and eventually throw rocks at my head or break things i made... however i hardly ever did anything back... what can you do as a kid who is being bullied by her entire class, my teacher surely didnt know what to do and it went on my entire time in Junior High

i was finally glad i was able to go to highschool, my study degree test came in saying i was one of the smartest kids in class and so i would be able to go to a whole new class with people that would atleased know what i was talking about and most of all people who didnt bully me, however that was short lived because my own teacher from junior high told me to go back a degree because of my mental health... my mother was furious and i was placed back in another class with the people that used to bully me through out junior high, my first 3 years were a nightmare in highschool, i was certainly a loner in that time because the people i would call my friends were all long gone and all there was left for me were my books and the hallway, i couldnt sit in the cafeteria because people would throw food at m so i hid myself from everyone, then one day an old friend.. one of the populair girls, from junior high came up to me and we started hanging out, i got to meet her class, she was a degree higher than me and so were her classmates, meaning that they studied Gymnassium and i would never be in their class anyway, but in the end those people became my first real friends, i didnt have trouble fitting in, unlike most bullying people i met before whom i tried to befriend with, they acepted who i was and understood my situation, i didnt trust them at first but eventually i opened up and showed them the person who i really am, which is far from quiet and polite and that is what gave me the courage to go on, eventually 4 years after 1st grade in highschool they tried to do something new to me, i had always told myself that i would never be beat up after school, i dont mind the verbal abuse... because i know beter than all of them but physicall is a little too much for me, well at some point they tried to kick me off the stairs when i was going home from school and i just lost it, i eventually beat one of them up really bad and almost drowned him out of anger and ever since that it has gone way down, instead of bullying me they got scared of me and i was glad that 'that' happened, in the years after it would still occur once in a while but right now it had completely stoppd, mostly because i am in college now and i am in a completely new class with new people, however when i say that it hasnt affected my life i would tell a lie, even now in my new class do i still act like a loner even when i dont want to, i still think that people do not want me around and im having trouble trusting people or understand why they sometimes say things, im slowlly getting over it, i have switched classes 3 times, i was put on hold because the animation class was full, i spend 6 months in another class that split up and spend 3 in a desktop publishing class before i head there was a spot for me in the animation class, but i became good friends with the people inthe other 2 classes

right now i pretty much dont care if i become best friends with my classmates, i am not doing my college degree for that, you wont see me hang out with most of them in my spare time but there are 2 people i hang around with, one of them is going to a 3 day concert festival with me and that is what i am glad about, back in high school i always thought that i didnt deserve it but now i dont hesitate when someone asks me to go somewhere and to hang out
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Old 2007-05-02, 07:41   Link #32
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Originally Posted by BlackMadonna View Post
But have you noticed bullying works differently between boys and girls?
Girls: mostly is gossip, destroying reputation, fashion criticism and such.
Boys: more of a physical attack from your peers.

Personally they tried the bullying, but one way or another i got back at them so they tried not to do it with me I could say i didn't bully I was more of trying to protect my friends and stuff so that took most of my time. Just imagine a guy hiding behind me (a girl) while i kicked their sorry a$$e$. -_-
So you have a sort of " If your in danger I will always be there to protect you" kinda personality right?

.. thats really cool
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Old 2008-02-12, 16:46   Link #33
Gemstar
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People don't bully me because I punch them before they can even try and I don't think people bully lone wolf type behavior people because they don't know what to expect from them. If you don't have the guts to punch them try running away that is so easy is it not ? When the guy says something to you ignore them. Pretend the don't exist, the only time to treat them as they exist is if only they are hurting people you care about or you physically.
But running away sounds fine because you are away from the source of conflict what can be better than running away ? It is worse to try to deal with them because you will only encourage them. But if you are brave and the guy tells you something just watch him......if he goes away all is ifne but if he gets angry and comes up to you, don't think twice he is invading your personal space and you both know what is going on punch him without a second thought. Do it as how you breathe air. For verbal exchanges just don't involve yourself with those kind of people. In fact just don't involve yourself period. For the lone wolf behavior that's cool people like that are cool !
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Old 2008-02-12, 18:31   Link #34
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I don't agree with some of the advice or thoughts in this thread.

From the first page, it seemed that most people said that the best way to deal with bullies was to ignore them. In elementary, middle, and high school, this may be the case. Bullying at those levels is often related to children trying to get a reaction or to get attention. However, ignoring work place bullying will harm you. If you ignore the abuse, you're setting a precedent for it to continue.

I think that most of us would feel that if you ignore the problem and/or accommodate people enough, they'll reciprocate. Unfortunately not all people are raised that way, and not all cultures value that sort of thing. You'd just be setting yourself up to be taken advantage of, regardless of whether it's intentional or not on the part of the other party. Ultimately you're the only one who is responsible for yourself, and you're responsible for speaking up for yourself. Bearing in mind the saying "choose your battles wisely" you need to do whatever must be done to protect your interests. Punching people in the face isn't necessarily the best way to resolve these matters, of course... (And note that much of my thoughts on this purely relate to "bullying" that occurs after high school.)

Fruitfly also pondered whether his own actions would constitute bullying. Maybe they were, but based off of his descriptions it sounds more like the other person was either overly sensitive or had some sort of disorder. You can't immediately blame yourself and put yourself at fault when another party expresses problems - again, you're the only one with the responsibility to stand up for yourself, and very few people are willing to accept blame humbly. Those who do it without standing up for themselves first will be taken advantage of. If the other person is overly sensitive or has problems of their own, then you've probably done nothing wrong - the issue that caused them to react so violently was on their end.

While it's important to know that, you also need to balance it. If you hold the conviction that the problem is with everyone else and that you're incapable of doing wrong, then you will become a bully/abuser. If you immediately blame yourself, you will likely be taken advantage of and be abused. If you can balance it properly then you will be treating people fairly and will be securing fair treatment for yourself (and perhaps others, if you can correct abusive behaviors in those around you).
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Old 2008-02-12, 18:50   Link #35
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Bullies here are ruthless with my experience. Illogical and childish, no amount of resistance can stop them. Well you can try but it is amazing how they just turn your words back against you to the point where it is just better to just ignore anything. This doesn't make it stop btw but it doesn't waste my breath as much. It's good that throughout to what is nearing the end of my highschool life that past bullies have grown out of it, but certain "pairs" still need to think if what they are doing is something that wouldn't get them killed in the outside world. I for one are not one to dirty my hands like that

Pretty much a lone wolf here in terms of my social life is concerned, but heck who want to go out every night and get "pissed" anyway
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Old 2008-02-12, 19:29   Link #36
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I think that most of us would feel that if you ignore the problem and/or accommodate people enough, they'll reciprocate. Unfortunately not all people are raised that way, and not all cultures value that sort of thing. You'd just be setting yourself up to be taken advantage of, regardless of whether it's intentional or not on the part of the other party. Ultimately you're the only one who is responsible for yourself, and you're responsible for speaking up for yourself. Bearing in mind the saying "choose your battles wisely" you need to do whatever must be done to protect your interests. Punching people in the face isn't necessarily the best way to resolve these matters, of course... (And note that much of my thoughts on this purely relate to "bullying" that occurs after high school.)
I think these good rules of thumb, but bullying is a highly personal assault on someone by a group. There must be a reason why one person is bullied and not another. As Ledgem says, in the workplace it does in fact matter, unlike in school. I don't think there is any way of going about it other than to resolve the reason why you are bullied.

I haven't been working long enough to experience this, but my mom was bullied at work for being overqualified. She had several post-grad degrees from American universities and spoke perfect English (for an immigrant, like her coworkers) working in a low level administrative position. Unfortunately, her aloof personality conveyed a sense of superiority. There was really no way around it except to act humble and resolve the original misunderstanding.

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Never been really been bullied. I have suffered from discrimination, but it wasn't that bad since I lived in Amsterdam and not everyone is white over there. I have been in 2 fights with random people I never seen before. For reasons like that I looked at him or something. Although I have provoked him by saying;"Why the fuck would I look at you". There was also a time where I have supposedly bumped a person. Still was pretty random.
Yeah, this is as close as I got to being physically bullied. Even though I'm Asian, I'm pretty tall (183 cm, 6'1"), most potential bullies would look elsewhere. However, there have been a couple of times where I am walking on campus and some guy decides to take a swipe at me. I have good reflexes, but still. It hurts emotionally to have someone you don't even know try and pick on you because of your race.
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Old 2008-02-16, 11:26   Link #37
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i agree in what Ledgem says. ignoring the bullying makes the situation worse most of the time. you really need to act in order to solve the problem, as long as you don't act stupid. words work best i the workplace, but for the school or college environment you need a little bit more kick in attitude. if you can openly defy a bully you need to be ready for what may happen next, and more importantly find someone who could sympatize with you. lone wolves are boring stiffs, if you ask me, if all they do is ignore while thinking they have a spine.
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Old 2008-02-16, 14:42   Link #38
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What I've learned from experience is that bully's themselves are afraid to get bullied. When they bully someone else the attention gets shifted to person being bullied. If you are strong in the mind and realize that you're being bullied stop it from the start. If you react on it and do nothing to stop it then you just poor water on a growing plant..
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Old 2008-02-16, 16:26   Link #39
Vexx
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And just to add to "bullying" when you're grown. Corporations often have bullying attributes sewn into their management culture. The employees are bullied not because it makes good business sense or because it contributes to productivity or the bottom dollar ... its because they *can* and because they want you to fear for your job at all times. That's worth more to them than the productivity loss it causes, it appears.

It is built into the very hiring process when you have to allow them to drug test you, run a credit-check on you, legal background check. Its built into some of the most batshit insane "dress codes" I could imagine. Your allocation of equipment based on your position level rather than "what would make you most productive".
I could go on, but flipping through a collection of Dilbert puts a nice "funny" face on it.

I've spent much of my career being a "corporate maverick" and yeah, I'm probably not a VP or Exec because of my hobby of going after "bullies" in the corporate system (not all bullies back off when you call him on their antics).
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Old 2008-02-16, 16:39   Link #40
Jaden
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Okay let's see, during school I was relatively tiny, eccentric, and somehow most of my friends were those genius a-grade kids. You can bet your ass that I got bullied.
I dealt with it mostly by getting along with teachers and the less violent students. If you're not alone you won't get bullied, very simple. And in the worst cases, I would run away. Speed was another of my strong points. If they can't catch you, they can't bully you.
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