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Old 2008-02-17, 00:14   Link #41
Quzor
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Bullying has an interesting growth cycle. As a child, nearly any parent will tell you that, if you're being bullied, just ignore it. If the bully can't get a reaction out of you, they'll just leave you alone. For the most part, I think that's true. Kids operate on a system of "instant gratification." If they can't get what they want right away, they move on to something else which will produce that result. Essentially, if they can't make you cry, they'll make that kid over there cry.

However, as Ledgem pointed out, bullying as you age, especially in the business world, has a more inherently conniving sense about it. People might try to undermine your work, so as to put you at odds with your superiors. Or perhaps they do this to show their superiority to you. Either way, this is not something that can be ignored. As you get older, the necessity to stand up for yourself more increases dramatically. Especially in our current society, every business man or woman is looking for "the best of the best" to make a part of their business team. If someone attempts to dumb down your abilities, you have to be able to retort with equal veracity. This generally requires, at least a modicum of intelligence (such as being able to use words like "modicum"). As terrible as it sounds, if you can rebut someone's argument against you by making them look foolish for having that opinion, your marketable value increases. This is what a lot of presidential candidates try to do during debates; instead of answering questions for themselves, they try to show why other candidates are wrong (admittedly, it's slipped to just insulting one another lately, but you get the idea).

The "Lone Wolf" is a different matter altogether, I feel. As a child, lone wolves have a tendency to follow one of two patterns; no friends, or no male friends (or female friends if the lone wolf happen to be a girl). In all of my experience, I enjoyed being a lone wolf occasionally, because it afforded me the wonderful luxury of never-ending female attention. However, I saw just as many people who were also lone wolfs, who got no attention whatsoever. As to a reason for this, I cannot say.

In the business world, I have noticed a distinctly similar pattern. Those who are lone wolves (aka those who tend to keep to themselves), have a tendency to stay in the shadows of the accommodations of others. They are often the ones who put in the most work, and receive the least credit. In this sense, the strategy for fending off bullies applies as well. If you can't stand up for yourself, you stand little chance of advancing beyond your current status. When people are consistently bringing you down, it is up to you to lift yourself back up.

Maybe it's just because the business world is more competitive than school. Or maybe it's because adults are more conniving and deceiving than children. Or maybe it's because some people are just assholes. However, it seems that bullying is something not to be taken lightly, as life goes on its merry way.
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Old 2008-02-17, 02:48   Link #42
_DaViD_
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Well after reading all the comments i feel lucky lol, cus in mexico there arent a lot of bully ppl like in US or other places where they kick other ppl ass and those things, that sucks
here the most u can expect is a nickname criticizing you.

im a lone-wolf in my high school, i have friends, both girls and boys but i dont talk too much, only if they give me conversation i speak to them, i have 2 real friends but they are in different area and we get separated by the 4th class, i used to hang on with other friends but they only keep criticizing each other just to have "fun" and that gets boring after 6 damn years! lol i got bad grades last year because of hanging with them and i know some of them will fail the whole year lol.
Right now im concentrating in get good ones now.

im not concentrating in get new friends, cus i will be going to college soon and i will meet new ppl maybe someone that has the same interest than me cus in my classroom nobody watches anime only 1 or 2 ppl and others only talk about boyfriends, girlfriends, parties, beer, drug traffickers and all the money they got from selling drugs.
most of them hear songs about those traffickers and they suck thats why i dont fit in there hope i get better friends on college next semester. xD
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Old 2008-02-17, 04:05   Link #43
Riktasi
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I have a vague memory of being somewhat bullied as a kid, but it was mostly playful teasing, which I found very annoying. Through middle school and high school, I was kind of avoidant, since I didn't really care about having friends just to talk about dumb stuff (a lot of kids were going through puberty that time, so it wasn't like they had anything to say that was worth my time). I did have a few friends in school, but outside of school, we didn't really get together. Overall, there really wasn't anything I'd consider true bullying. I was friendly to most people but rather neutral in terms of social standings - not really their friends but not their enemies either.
Well, now in college, I kind of wish I had been closer to those few friends I did have.

Oh, and if I was in high school right now and saw someone else getting bullied, I'd probably beat the bully into a bloody mess (or at least make sure he got dispelled) - I can't stand people like those, they really have no place in society.

As for workplace-related, if staying on good terms to all your coworkers doesn't work, well then either report it/lawsuit for discrimination or find a better job.
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Old 2008-02-17, 15:22   Link #44
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riktasi View Post
As for workplace-related, if staying on good terms to all your coworkers doesn't work, well then either report it/lawsuit for discrimination or find a better job.
If it were that simple, it wouldn't be a problem for so many people.
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Old 2008-02-18, 16:58   Link #45
Daughter!
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I've never been bullied, but from what I've seen, the kids who get bullied are the ones who wouldn't do anything if they were. It's their fault, mostly. Maybe if they grew some balls and said something or did something they wouldn't get picked on.
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Old 2008-02-18, 17:32   Link #46
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By the way, have I mentioned already that the typical bully behavior as pictured in the US media entertainment is nowhere to be seen around these parts?

I don't know if it's a problem with the US itself, or if the distorted view we get here is grossly exaggerated, but I've never encountered situations as repulsive as the ones I've seen in typical high school settings in US shows/movies/you name it. Granted, we have our own types of social problems in schools, but I've never seen stuff like that.

Likewise, the amount of teenagers grabbing a gun, killing a few people at their school and then committing suicide is almost nil when compared to the US.

PS:

Quote:
It's their fault, mostly.
Yeeeeeesh... right. They're wrong merely for existing. Because, hey, this is capitalism, and we can't get anywhere without some real, macho competition, can we?
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Old 2008-02-18, 17:37   Link #47
Anh_Minh
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Like what? Hit the bullies? Tried it. Didn't work. Tell the teachers? Tried it. Didn't work.
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Old 2008-02-19, 08:20   Link #48
Daughter!
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Yeeeeeesh... right. They're wrong merely for existing. Because, hey, this is capitalism, and we can't get anywhere without some real, macho competition, can we?
lol wut

I meant that some kid who always sits around reading Harry Potter that will never say anything to anyone giving him a hard time wouldn't get picked on if they did something about it. You don't have to be the second coming of Christ to tell off some prick giving you a hard time. It's all about how much respect people have for certain people and how people act and what they do has a lot of do with it.
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Old 2008-02-19, 08:31   Link #49
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
I meant that some kid who always sits around reading Harry Potter that will never say anything to anyone giving him a hard time wouldn't get picked on if they did something about it. You don't have to be the second coming of Christ to tell off some prick giving you a hard time.
Yes, the problem is, it's not his fault. People are free to be whatever they want to be. Perhaps it would be better if he, as you say, "told off some prick giving him a hard time", but he doesn't have to change his way of being. Any obligation to do so is just an artificial construction, not a real necessity, and the fault still lies on the one bullying because, you want it or not, it's wrong.

Quote:
It's all about how much respect people have for certain people and how people act and what they do has a lot of do with it.
I'm not gonna go into details about how repulsive that phrase sounds to me.

EDIT: I just watched episode 6 of Shigofumi, which deals exactly with this very issue. It's a very powerful one, and has a great insight on the bullying behavior as a product of the competitive, "animal" nature of today's society.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-02-19 at 09:00.
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Old 2008-02-19, 09:38   Link #50
Anh_Minh
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Do you think bullying is a recent phenomenon?
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Old 2008-02-19, 10:47   Link #51
Narzia
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Bullying is a serious thing, yet it's still ridiculous underestimated.
I was bullied over many, many years (i'm not sure anymore, but it were more than 7) in school. I experienced softer and harder mobbing.
Their reason? I never knew. I never did anything that could provoke them. To be precise, i did nothing. I was the type who had few friends, who went to other schools anyway, and was more of a lone-wolfer.

It starts most of the time with simple verbal bullying, which get's progressively harder.
They destroy your stuff, follow you around and/or try to embarass you in front of others.
They hit you, not like a real punch, but it's annoying. They push you around etc. and even though i got never really beat up, sometimes i wished for it if it would just stop the damn bullying.

I started to skip school. I copied my mothers signature for that purpose. My grades became weak (i was kinda smart back then, a genius and i never had to learn new stuff. I did my homework fast enough in school and had the rest of the day free to do what i wanted at home or outside) to the point where i had to change class, which had even more morons.
It was then when i had a complete breakdown and i still think something of me died back then.

Now, what can you do against it? I was alone, or the few "friends" i had at the same school were scared, or in no better position than myself.

Ignoring them? LOL! Don't be ridiculous. Have you ever been bullied? In this century? That's the worst und most useless thing you could do.
Telling them to stop didn't work, they didn't care.
Telling parents didn't help. They didn't take it seriously enough. Thought it would stop over time.
Telling the teacher didn't help. They didn't listen or didn't believe me.
Bullying them verbal didn't help also.
Even beating them wouldn't help, they called more of their "homies".

The only thing that would work in such situations is what everyone thinks, but no one would admit it right: Beating every single one of them into oblivion until they're half dead, or blackmail them.. which certainly helped sometimes.

It ruined my life, drove me into depression and suicide-thoughts and changed my view of the world and humanity forever.
Thank God, or whatever, it's become much, much better at work. I'm still more the lone-wolf-type, but i'm more respected and overall well liked. Even though sometimes i still run into morons. Well, at least it's now my turn to beat them up.

Last edited by Narzia; 2008-02-19 at 15:18.
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Old 2008-02-19, 14:22   Link #52
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzia View Post
The only thing that would work in such situations is what everyone thinks, but no one would admit it right: Beating every single one of them into oblivion until they're half dead, or blackmail them.. which certainly helped sometimes.
Most people who are bullied for an extended period of time are probably doing something (or not doing something) that contributes to the bullying. You may not have realized it at the time, and you may not realize it now. Self-introspection is very difficult.

I'll use myself as an example. I wasn't bullied much, but my friends and I were certainly easy targets. We had "nerdier" hobbies, we largely kept to ourselves. In my case, I was incredibly shy. I couldn't come up with witty retorts on the fly to make a bully look and feel foolish; I didn't have the confidence to make them feel bad about themselves; I didn't have the mouth to out-curse them. I did what I felt was best, then - cold shoulder them and possibly stare them down. In hindsight, combined with my reputation for already being quiet and relatively unknown (if not a little weird), that's a recipe for just asking for further bullying. I was probably blushing like crazy during these encounters as well, partly as a result of being singled out and due to embarrassment from the belittling things that they would say.

I can say that in hindsight as I've since gained a voice and some self-respect. Yet if I were to speak to you as the person I was four to six years ago, I would have been with the crowd saying "I didn't do anything and yet they still came after me." There are times when something about ourselves will trigger someone else and we really can't avoid it or know the cause, but at the lower levels (high school and under) bullying is generally more about reactions received. In this case, inaction does count as a form of action. If that's what the bully gets off on, they'll keep hitting you up for more.

Quote:
Well, at least it's now my turn to beat them up.
This is how the cycle repeats itself. You will never see yourself as a bully - any aggression you bring against people you perceive to be bullies will be justified in your mind. Be sensitive, and take care not to put people through even a step of the hell that you went through.
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Old 2008-02-19, 14:39   Link #53
Terrestrial Dream
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I remember being bullied during elementary school, use to get beaten up often and was made made fun of, but mostly beaten up a lot. Now I did went to elementary school in Korea where bullying is common there, so when kids was were being beaten up teacher really didn't do much and you really juts can't ignore them. It pretty much sucked back later on I thank god that I moved to the US before middle school, because from what I heard from my friend who did went to middle school in Korea, they it's hell. Of course I bullied someone in the US, and well because he was really annoying and never really felt bad about what I did. Though I really didn't beat him up or anything I just made fun of him.
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Old 2008-02-19, 15:40   Link #54
JubeiYamazaki
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I was only bullied twice ever in my life and I fought each, won once and lost the other. But in the both fights I smiled. Why? Both time were in self-defense, and in front of authorities, in other words, I set their asses up to fail. My good grades + respectful and kind behavior, masked my devious ploy to provoke them into a fight. They never saw it coming.

In fact when I lost my one fight the guy kept claiming I started the fight which of course fell to deaf ears, and while in the hallway waiting for the principal's ruling I whispered to him. "Enjoy your stay in military school, you brought this on yourself. I hope you learned something about respect." Sure enough that's what happened to him.

Do I feel bad about what happened? Not at all, I tried settling the disputes like a rational human being. Talking to him, finding out why he'd single me out when I'd do nothing but just sit in class and do my work. And even warned him, of I what I was capable of doing. But yet he continued. And ultimately he paid the price.

Good times!
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Old 2008-02-19, 16:59   Link #55
Vexx
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I believe the phrase is "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
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Old 2008-02-19, 19:29   Link #56
esfir
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Originally Posted by Pop-Punk Sucks View Post
I've never been bullied, but from what I've seen, the kids who get bullied are the ones who wouldn't do anything if they were. It's their fault, mostly. Maybe if they grew some balls and said something or did something they wouldn't get picked on.
what the heck. this is like saying, "i'm a girl and i've never been raped; from what i've seen, most girls who have been raped didn't do anything about it to stop it. it's their fault, mostly. maybe if they didn't act like sluts and wore longer skirts, they wouldn't be raped."


from my experience, the only way to deal with adolescent bullying is generally to ignore it. when i was in elementary and middle school, i was made fun of constantly, and i always stood up for myself and made fun of the people who were insulting me. it didn't really help; it just angered them further and caused them to want to argue with me more, even if they were being totally illogical and were clearly in the wrong. i don't know how many times i have said to a bully, "are you really this stupid? you have no idea what you are talking about," only to receive a response like, "omg no ur wrong."

like when i was in 6th grade, i used to draw pictures of sailormoon, and one girl made fun of me for drawing pictures of a "chinese cartoon". at the end of it, when she refused to believe that it was made in japan (i didn't even care that she made fun of me for the drawings), and i was just like, "i can't even talk to you anymore, you are so stupid." the fact that i constantly told her she was an idiot didn't stop her from making fun of me all the time.

later, when i was in highschool, i kept mostly to myself, and actually wasn't teased at all, except by two people in my 10th year who would make snide remarks behind my back. i really didn't know them at all and was always nice to them; i think they were jealous of me because i had the best grades in the class. sometimes they would throw candy at me too (which is really lame, when you think about it). i completely ignored their teasing, and after awhile they just gave up.

i think when i was in elementary school, i wouldn't have been teased at all if i had just ignored it then as well. i was very shy and quiet, and when people teased me i would defend myself and get upset. i think the problem is when you defend yourself, it shows that whatever they've done or said has had an impact on you--so even if you're not bursting into tears, they've cracked you, and thus have done their job. if you completely ignore what they have to say and pretend that their existence is merely vapor, there's not a lot for them to go on.
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Old 2008-02-19, 22:15   Link #57
Riktasi
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Seems like a lot of people are saying to just ignore it. Well, I remember reading something about the psychology of a bully (I think it might've been from psychology class), that they basically bully people to gain some form of attention. It could be because of poor parenting when they were very young or just bad influence from others. Either way, when bullies are in social community-type settings, they have a hard time making many friends because of their poor discipline, but they themselves don't know that. Peers will tend to avoid the bully, so in an effort to gain attention, the bully will resort to violent behavior - others react to and acknowledge the bully's presence, however negative it is.

So basically, bullies become so twisted in the mind that they gain enjoyment from tormenting their peers because that's how they affirm their own standing within their community. It's like an inferiority complex gone wrong; they don't want to be a nobody or a shadow in the background, but they don't know how to be the popular nice guy.

As much as I hate people who completely lack empathy, I really can't blame them; usually it's something from their childhood that caused them to be like that. On the other hand, a lot of suicidal school shootings are caused by the victims of bullying. Is it right for them to vent their frustrations in life upon others?
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Old 2008-02-19, 23:00   Link #58
Irenicus
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Shoujo manga makes me afraid of bullying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Do you think bullying is a recent phenomenon?
Of course not.

In fact in many ways it was probably more dangerous back then when there really was a clear and widely accepted stringent social hierarchy and a weaker concept of the rule of law and modern behavioral conceptions.

Example: I believe the famed Voltaire himself was beaten up for having gone into dispute with some asshead of a French noble. The chevalier de Rohan sent his lackeys to "teach [de Voltaire] a lesson." The latter's aristocratic 'friends' and 'admirers' who used to hang out with the witty young bourgeois proceeded to ignore his pleas for revenge because of his low birth, and the genius young satirist had no choice but to go on exile in England, never again to look at the ancien régime without irony on his own part.

He was a lucky guy. Others were probably dead, permanently injured, or had their futures destroyed forever.

In less real (but more easily accessible) examples, both the manga Historie and Cesare portrays classic bullying. In Historie, Young Eumenes had to fight with a bunch of older kids in his gymnasium to protect his friends (back then the Greeks used them as schools); and in Cesare, the naive young protagonist faced the wrath of (future Pope) Giovanni de Medici without himself, being the good guy he is, knowing. He was fortunate though to have an ally in the scion of the Borgia's to save him time and again...

Dangerous.

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As for my own experiences, well:

In elementary and middle school, I was a good boy, but I clearly remembered that I teased a few of my friends pretty consistently. By and large this is classic "mild" bullying that the recipient party probably found extremely annoying but not at all dangerous. I never went overboard and gone physical, gossip, or harm their things or anything like that though.

Regardless, when we met again later on we were often more or less friends, old friends and not one day friends either! In fact, since my love for the geeky things (social sciences, geography, etc.) became more pronounced and obvious with age, I found that I in fact had much in common with a few of them.

Sad that I had to cut short all such relations by emigrating from there and immigrated into the U.S.A. for the last three years of high school (or all three years of high school by Asian reckoning).

I'm not sure what others who experienced such bullying feel about things. I hope that they don't hate me now. I think of them and what little I remembered of that time of my life very fondly.

In high school, I was relatively a loner, quiet and all, but strangely enough I never experienced any bullying...at all. In fact most people were very friendly and the only reason I'm not friends with most of them was because of my own cowardly and silent tendencies. Sometimes I just feel awkward and act awkwardly, became self-conscious, and instead chose to remain quiet. I also wasn't very good at starting conversations.

Of course, I still made a few friends and though I don't see them anymore (I'm terrible at keeping relations intact, too), I still remember them fondly and would consider every one of my friends in those days as friends now.

I had one thing going for me though. I was smart at the academic things and never minded helping others if they ask me. People tend to be nice when you're nice to them, even if they start out as not-so-nice but were met head-on with airheaded naive niceness.

Oh, and I also was very funny at times. Especially "on the stage" when most people, even the most sociable, became awkward. I'm pleased to say that they lol'd a lot at me or with me in those times.

People, again, tend to be nice to you if you're unexpectedly interesting in a good way.

And now I'm in university, still far from having to experience workplace bullying on my own, and still quiet but friendly me. No bully worth his salt would think me worth bullying, I guess, and since I'm not provocative either people don't tend to think bad of me...or think at all.

But of course, I'm walking on a road paved with infinite fortune. Others, nicer and better people than me, are often not so lucky.
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