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Old 2007-04-26, 01:57   Link #1
Menelmacar
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[Spoiler] Portrait of a kage level Naruto

It is a fair statement that Naruto will someday become the Hokage of the hidden leaf, provided the story does not make a serious shift in tone. Therefore, I had been considering what a "kage-level" version of Naruto would be capable of... and the answer was sitting more or less right in front of me:

Kakuzu

Naruto's Kage Bunshin is being expanded upon in such a way as to counter the Sharingan, with it's training method and ability to allow Naruto to outmaneuver an opponent more skilled in taijutsu. Both of these things were used in conjunction to bring about the demise of the Akatsuki in question, but there's more...

If Naruto uses his bunshin training to learn how to use ninjutsu of different elements (like Kakashi) he would be able to combine the attacks into more powerful forms like Kakuzu's mask did. Doing this would "complete" him as a ninja, his Kage Bunshin and Rasengan provides him with significant one-on-one fighting ability and the aforementioned would give him the capacity to have ninjutsu wars similar to the fights between heavy hitters like Jiraiya and Orochimaru or Oro vs. Sandaime.

I understand this is no easy feat, but Kakashi, a non-heartstealing fiend, has managed to learn all element types (the only one he has not used is Fuuton). He, with the advantage of Naruto's capacity to gain five years worth of training in a day to master a large category of elemental ninjutsu to combine and decimate whomever is dumb enough to decide to take him on.
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Old 2007-04-26, 03:04   Link #2
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Kakashi using fire element was a anime-only fact. Until I see him use it in the manga, it's a "no" from me.

And no, I'm pretty sure you cannot learn any other elements besides the one that you have naturally. It's pretty clear when you see Hokage's fight each other, they control two, perhaps three elements, and most of the ninja's we saw never showed more than three element jutsus.

Kakuzu had all the elements because he had the ability to use other shinobi hearts. Meaning the hearts of Shinobis is probably the source of their atonement to a particular element.
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Old 2007-04-26, 05:04   Link #3
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menelmacar View Post
It is a fair statement that Naruto will someday become the Hokage of the hidden leaf, provided the story does not make a serious shift in tone. Therefore, I had been considering what a "kage-level" version of Naruto would be capable of... and the answer was sitting more or less right in front of me:

Kakuzu

Naruto's Kage Bunshin is being expanded upon in such a way as to counter the Sharingan, with it's training method and ability to allow Naruto to outmaneuver an opponent more skilled in taijutsu. Both of these things were used in conjunction to bring about the demise of the Akatsuki in question, but there's more...

If Naruto uses his bunshin training to learn how to use ninjutsu of different elements (like Kakashi) he would be able to combine the attacks into more powerful forms like Kakuzu's mask did. Doing this would "complete" him as a ninja, his Kage Bunshin and Rasengan provides him with significant one-on-one fighting ability and the aforementioned would give him the capacity to have ninjutsu wars similar to the fights between heavy hitters like Jiraiya and Orochimaru or Oro vs. Sandaime.

I understand this is no easy feat, but Kakashi, a non-heartstealing fiend, has managed to learn all element types (the only one he has not used is Fuuton). He, with the advantage of Naruto's capacity to gain five years worth of training in a day to master a large category of elemental ninjutsu to combine and decimate whomever is dumb enough to decide to take him on.
I think Naruto may be able to master all elements but not because of his own chakra. He still has the Kyuubi chakra and that may give him even access to elements that normally dont excist. If i am correct the Sharingan cant follow or read movements of (Kyuubi) chakra.

Naruto with his chakra capacity + healing abilities has pretty much infinite potential especially with his mass kage bunshin trainings sessions.
If i am correct he spent more then 5 years training within a week.

Naruto can pretty much start wars on his own if you think about it. It is ridiculous but it is true. He can send 100.000 clones to one village and if he is a Hokage each bunshin must be atleast a very skilled fighter. Anyway he can send 100.000 towards one village and completly destory a village while the original version may be doing mere paperwork like Tsunade usually does.

At the same time he is getting stronger and stronger while in reality not doing much besides paperwork. (Kishimoto is definetly gonna avoid or block this somehow and limit it all of sudden)

Since if we've seen correctly each individual bunshin can transform and go Kyuubi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
Kakashi using fire element was a anime-only fact. Until I see him use it in the manga, it's a "no" from me.

And no, I'm pretty sure you cannot learn any other elements besides the one that you have naturally. It's pretty clear when you see Hokage's fight each other, they control two, perhaps three elements, and most of the ninja's we saw never showed more than three element jutsus.

Kakuzu had all the elements because he had the ability to use other shinobi hearts. Meaning the hearts of Shinobis is probably the source of their atonement to a particular element.
No, you must be incorrect because are you trying to say the Sharingan has that kind of copy limits? I think Kakashi must've copied all kinds of jutsu's of all kinds of elements. I doubt he copied 300 Lightning/Water/Earth jutsu's and zero Fire or Wind.
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Old 2007-04-26, 10:59   Link #4
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I think Shikamaru will be doing all the paperwork, making sure Naruto doesn't get himself into too much trouble.
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Old 2007-04-26, 12:46   Link #5
baalthaczaar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
I think Naruto may be able to master all elements but not because of his own chakra. He still has the Kyuubi chakra and that may give him even access to elements that normally dont excist. If i am correct the Sharingan cant follow or read movements of (Kyuubi) chakra.

Naruto with his chakra capacity + healing abilities has pretty much infinite potential especially with his mass kage bunshin trainings sessions.
If i am correct he spent more then 5 years training within a week.

Naruto can pretty much start wars on his own if you think about it. It is ridiculous but it is true. He can send 100.000 clones to one village and if he is a Hokage each bunshin must be atleast a very skilled fighter. Anyway he can send 100.000 towards one village and completly destory a village while the original version may be doing mere paperwork like Tsunade usually does.

At the same time he is getting stronger and stronger while in reality not doing much besides paperwork. (Kishimoto is definetly gonna avoid or block this somehow and limit it all of sudden)

Since if we've seen correctly each individual bunshin can transform and go Kyuubi.
that just gave me an idea...since we all know that naruto is connected to the yondaime somehow...what if naruto's KB are his version of the yondaime's FTG(flying thunder god)? the ability to be "everywhere at once" but i think that by that time. naruto wouldnt use/maybe even have the kyuubi. unless he can control his hollow and become a vizard (metaphor)

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Originally Posted by kikko_s View Post
I think Shikamaru will be doing all the paperwork, making sure Naruto doesn't get himself into too much trouble.
i doubt shika will wanna do the paperwork...hinata will gladly do it though.
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Old 2007-04-26, 13:42   Link #6
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Originally Posted by baalthaczaar View Post
that just gave me an idea...since we all know that naruto is connected to the yondaime somehow...what if naruto's KB are his version of the yondaime's FTG(flying thunder god)? the ability to be "everywhere at once" but i think that by that time. naruto wouldnt use/maybe even have the kyuubi. unless he can control his hollow and become a vizard (metaphor)
I would not say that the power of the Kage Bunshin allows Naruto to be "everywhere at once," but I do believe that it is his "ougi" per se. Each of the mega-nins encounted so far have an ability that set them apart from everyone else. A master skill that so specialized and so powerful that it can't truly be counted, only met with a similar level ability.

Kakashi, Sasuke, and Itachi all have the Sharingan which provides them with the ability to predict their opponent's movements. It, of course, has a lot of other powers, but this is the most important. The information about how an opponent will strike next is as important to Sharingan user as spider-sense is to everyone's favorite wall-crawler.

Sarutobi has the Enma summon. The incredibly compact and extraordinarily powerful summon that he possesses gave him the boost that he needed to fend off three kage-level ninjas by himself.

Jiraiya has his toad summons, not as impressive at Enma, but the range of the things he seems to be able to call give him a great amount of versatility here. They take care of what little taijutsu he requires, giving Ero-Sennin the room he needs for his monster ninjutsu attacks, and the occasional Rasengan.

Gai has speed, absolutely incredible speed. No known ninja, except possibly Yondaime armed with Hiraishin can match him. Most of the fight scenes with Lee in the series easily show how much of an advantage blazing by your opponents is.

Yondaime, of course, has Hiraishin that allows him to instantly move from place to place, more or less. Effective in combat (he's slaughtered 50 rock nin without aid), he can move so fast that not even the Sharingan can keep up (I do not know if this is manga fact, but I've read this somewhere).

The point of all of the above is to show that most of the OMG ninjas have more or less one supreme skill that trumps the rest. Naruto has the stamina and chakra capacity to power shadow clones that rival elite jonin in strength (Kakashi has said Naruto has twice the chakra he has, a number that will only increase). The effect that these clones will have once their potential has been reached is that Naruto will have multiple versions of himself running around, each on possibly being as powerful or more powerful than Enma.

By far the greatest weakness of the technique now is the one-and-done manner in which the clones are defeated, most don't get an attack off. But, if Naruto used the clones to fire powerful ninjutsu at his opponent, it would be likely that they would become overwhelmed quickly because of trying to dodge on massive attack after another. Add to that the almost exponential increase in destructive power that would come from combining elemental skills (for an example, look at a picture of the Drowning Maelstrom Technique and compare the size of the water spout to the trees shown), and we have ourselves Mudaime Hokage.
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Old 2007-04-26, 15:05   Link #7
Asianknight82
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I think it'll be something, if Naruto defeats the kyuubi inside of him and taking the kyuubi's chakra for himself making it truly apart of him. Which means he can control the level of intensity at will. That within itself will make Naruto unstopable.
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Old 2007-04-26, 15:25   Link #8
baalthaczaar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menelmacar View Post
I would not say that the power of the Kage Bunshin allows Naruto to be "everywhere at once," but I do believe that it is his "ougi" per se. Each of the mega-nins encounted so far have an ability that set them apart from everyone else. A master skill that so specialized and so powerful that it can't truly be counted, only met with a similar level ability.
by everywhere, i didnt mean "EVERYWHERE". i meant, that the yondaime's hiraishin allowed him to take out several enemy nins simultaneously (to the untrained eye of course).

Quote:
Kakashi, Sasuke, and Itachi all have the Sharingan which provides them with the ability to predict their opponent's movements. It, of course, has a lot of other powers, but this is the most important. The information about how an opponent will strike next is as important to Sharingan user as spider-sense is to everyone's favorite wall-crawler.

Sarutobi has the Enma summon. The incredibly compact and extraordinarily powerful summon that he possesses gave him the boost that he needed to fend off three kage-level ninjas by himself.

Jiraiya has his toad summons, not as impressive at Enma, but the range of the things he seems to be able to call give him a great amount of versatility here. They take care of what little taijutsu he requires, giving Ero-Sennin the room he needs for his monster ninjutsu attacks, and the occasional Rasengan.

Gai has speed, absolutely incredible speed. No known ninja, except possibly Yondaime armed with Hiraishin can match him. Most of the fight scenes with Lee in the series easily show how much of an advantage blazing by your opponents is.

Yondaime, of course, has Hiraishin that allows him to instantly move from place to place, more or less. Effective in combat (he's slaughtered 50 rock nin without aid), he can move so fast that not even the Sharingan can keep up (I do not know if this is manga fact, but I've read this somewhere).

The point of all of the above is to show that most of the OMG ninjas have more or less one supreme skill that trumps the rest. Naruto has the stamina and chakra capacity to power shadow clones that rival elite jonin in strength (Kakashi has said Naruto has twice the chakra he has, a number that will only increase). The effect that these clones will have once their potential has been reached is that Naruto will have multiple versions of himself running around, each on possibly being as powerful or more powerful than Enma.
thanks for elaborating on what i said. because this is what i meant. (to the trained eye of course)

Quote:
By far the greatest weakness of the technique now is the one-and-done manner in which the clones are defeated, most don't get an attack off. But, if Naruto used the clones to fire powerful ninjutsu at his opponent, it would be likely that they would become overwhelmed quickly because of trying to dodge on massive attack after another. Add to that the almost exponential increase in destructive power that would come from combining elemental skills (for an example, look at a picture of the Drowning Maelstrom Technique and compare the size of the water spout to the trees shown), and we have ourselves Mudaime Hokage.
indeed indeed. (but whats mudaime?)
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Old 2007-04-26, 16:35   Link #9
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Originally Posted by baalthaczaar View Post


indeed indeed. (but whats mudaime?)
"Mudaime" is the result of a quickly executed google search where I found the word for six ("mu") in japanese and slapped "daime" on the end of it because it appears to be the ordinal designator (like the "th" in sixth).
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Old 2007-04-26, 16:43   Link #10
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Originally Posted by Menelmacar View Post
"Mudaime" is the result of a quickly executed google search where I found the word for six ("mu") in japanese and slapped "daime" on the end of it because it appears to be the ordinal designator (like the "th" in sixth).

If it were to appear in the manga though, they'd most likely refer to it as rokudaime. Mu is the Sino-Japanese term for "six". This is similar to how a lot of people were referring to Suigetsu as Mizugestu when he first appeared. Either way is correct though. I'm just nit-picking.
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Old 2007-04-26, 17:09   Link #11
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If it were to appear in the manga though, they'd most likely refer to it as rokudaime. Mu is the Sino-Japanese term for "six". This is similar to how a lot of people were referring to Suigetsu as Mizugestu when he first appeared. Either way is correct though. I'm just nit-picking.
thats what i thought. plus i one were to use that, i think Muddaime id the way its spelled in romanji. because of the little "tsu" in the end
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Old 2007-04-26, 17:25   Link #12
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Didn't read the thread really, but Kakashi can use all main elements. He said that in the manga...
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Old 2007-04-26, 18:06   Link #13
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lol, Roku is the word for six
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Old 2007-04-26, 19:09   Link #14
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lol, Roku is the word for six
As Sabaku Kyu so kindly pointed out above you, both terms would be correct.
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Old 2007-04-26, 20:00   Link #15
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Um, I appreciate the semantics debate as much as anyone, but what do you all think about the plausibility of this Naruto "build?" Do you think he'll be like this when he comes into his true powers, or have another set of abilities?
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Old 2007-04-26, 21:45   Link #16
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-I'll say this much for our little blond twit: we cannot really consider him to be a "Kage" level opponent until we see him eradicating enemy ninja without actually breaking a sweat (or anything else for that matter). Granted, the Kage Bunshin no jutsu has been made God-like in his hands but even so that matters little if they still get wasted in the end. Perhaps he should take a page or 2 from Itachi's and Deidara's book and have his clones become bombs? Or would that not suit our little Fox Demon Host's repetroire? BUt yeah, he's not Kage-level yet. He's getting there but not immedietly...
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Old 2007-04-26, 22:43   Link #17
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-I'll say this much for our little blond twit: we cannot really consider him to be a "Kage" level opponent until we see him eradicating enemy ninja without actually breaking a sweat (or anything else for that matter). Granted, the Kage Bunshin no jutsu has been made God-like in his hands but even so that matters little if they still get wasted in the end. Perhaps he should take a page or 2 from Itachi's and Deidara's book and have his clones become bombs? Or would that not suit our little Fox Demon Host's repetroire? BUt yeah, he's not Kage-level yet. He's getting there but not immedietly...
Yeah, I don't see Naruto using exploding bunshin. It's not a move that really fits a heroic character. It's more a crafty villain type move.

As far as Naruto's abilities are concerned, if his fight with Kakuzu is any indication, Naruto may starting fighting with a "quality not quantity" strategy when it comes to Kage Bunshin and the Kyuubi's chakra. What I mean is, tajuu kage bunshin and Kyuubi transformations, while effective, are really inefficient and dangerous ways to fight. Naruto seems to be realizing this because in his fight with Kakuzu he only sent in a few clones (much, much less than we know he is capable of) but used them more effectively than he has in the past. He also seemed to use a minimal amount of the Kyuubi's chakra, as his eyes were the only indication that he was using the chakra at all when usually his whiskers widen and he's grown fangs when he's that serious.

So I think the battles were Naruto recklessly summons all the Kyuubi chakra he can and creates a bajillion clones will lessen as he gets closer to Hokage. Tajuu kage bunshin will be used mostly for training. I expect Naruto to relapse and grow tails maybe a few times more but I don't see him willingly trying to increase the amount of Kyuubi chakra he uses. Instead, he'll become better at controlling the exact amount of chakra he uses for his jutsu (like for summoning, hopefully), and he'll make better use of his bunshins' ability to relay info back to him during fights.
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Old 2007-04-27, 04:20   Link #18
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indeed! most definitely. i think the kage-level doesnt jst talk about a ninja's strength, because we all know that naruto is up there when it comes to it, but also proficiency in battle tactics. also since shika more than makes up for his lack of power with his prowess as a tactician, he was able to beat an S-class ninja.

plus, naruto is trying to "save the world" with his own chakra and not rely on the kyuubi's powers. (he said so in the manga, forgot which chapter tho')

and as we see in the progression of the story and naruto getting more mature, he is learning how to use his specialty jutsu (other than sexy) better and more efficiently. and although i dont miss dim-witted naruto (he still kinda is.) i would wanna see him tag team with konohamaru and perform orioke. hahaha. and not get beat up by sakura. although with naruto maturing...the chances of that happening becomes less.
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Old 2007-04-27, 08:25   Link #19
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i would wanna see him tag team with konohamaru and perform orioke. hahaha. and not get beat up by sakura. although with naruto maturing...the chances of that happening becomes less.
I wouldn't say that, as Tsunade has noted that Naruto is picking up Jiraiya's traits, which means he is actually becoming more perverted. Just as Sakura is picking up Tsunade's traits (becoming more prone to violent outbursts). In fact, Naruto's sensei-student line has quite a few pervs: Sandaime, Jiraiya and Kakashi. So there's a chance we'll maybe see Naruto have an orioke showdown with Konohamaru sometime in the future.
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Old 2007-04-27, 08:35   Link #20
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The fact that people have affinities towards certain elements is part of the Naruto world. It creates a bunch of strengths/weaknesses when you get ninja match-ups.

Jounins generally have two or three elements they can control according to Kakashi. (Manga, Naruto training for Fuuton R.)

Sasuke was never shown to have copied any water/earth/wind moves.

What surprised Kakashi when fighting Kakuzu was the fact that he could control all elements. Which was then explained by the fact that he runs his chakra through his opponent hearts, thus gaining whatever elemental affinity they had.

Element affinity is one weakness of the Sharingan among others.
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