AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-07-09, 16:38   Link #321
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
To some extent so is he. So you could say the same.
They're trying to kill him because they believe him to be a murderer, out to kill a good man they've sworn to protect. He's trying to kill them, despite thinking they're good guys, because they're in his way.

Quote:
Yes "should have been" if not for blah blah blah... That's not the case, so its killed or be killed. Its not like the soldiers are just defending themselves if anything they shot first; though of course we have the exceptions where Archriit directly intervened with intent to kill. Understand I agree with some of the points you made, but given what you want (Archriit just die by the soldiers? cuz they *might* be good guys or something) I do not sympathize with your reasoning.
Wrong. He had many opportunities to just walk away. He also could have tried to be more stealthy than he's been, if he'd just been willing to wait. But he chose to go for the heroes, through their soldiers. Of course, once he engaged, he lost the option to "just walk away". But he's the one who chose to put himself in that situation.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-09, 16:46   Link #322
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
At that rate the heroes would have died by old age, along with god knows how many people due to the ambitions of the first two. Unless you're going to defend the soldiers who were raping the town folk or the ones before that who were murdering people for bribes or the bandits who were killing and pillaging at will, Archriit hasn't killed any innocent soldiers otherwise (unless you can give me a precise example of any of them dieing).
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-09, 16:54   Link #323
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
At that rate the heroes would have died by old age, along with god knows how many people due to the ambitions of the first two. Unless you're going to defend the soldiers who were raping the town folk or the ones before that who were murdering people for bribes or the bandits who were killing and pillaging at will,
I won't defend them. But I still think Asherit could have been more discreet if he'd been more patient. And if the heroes died of old age - well, too bad.
Quote:
Archriit hasn't killed any innocent soldiers otherwise (unless you can give me a precise example of any of them dieing).
Hello? He dropped an airship on an army. Are we supposed to believe that the guys in the airship, as well the the guys below it, somehow didn't die?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-09, 16:59   Link #324
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
You're in a flaming airship? do you just sit there and die instead of going to the lifeboats (which we know they have). I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing dead soldiers from that. Not that I care, if anything I think the author needs to give him some cold blood.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-09, 18:15   Link #325
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
Is Your Daddy & Its True
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the Sky with the Birds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
No. People are saying that those he kills cannot be labeled as innocent victims of murder just because we know nothing about them.
Yeah I agree.
We cant say every person he kills doesn't deserve to die...
Because we don't know anything about them...
But the 7 Lances of Betrayal (called the 7 Heroes)...
I don't feel sorry for them in the least...
They betrayed him and the other 3 in cold blood after they risked their lives so the 7 of them and the kingdom can live....
If Koinz let them live on... what does that do for the ones who were the real heroes?
What about their honor and the respect they deserve...
Its wasn't enough for them to betray them...
Instead of saying they died in battle they called them the traitors...
And dragged their names and reputation through the mud and made them hated..
And They did it so shamelessly... that's a crime that carries a death penalty...
Those bastards deserve to die
__________________



'̿ ̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ '̿
Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!

Last edited by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk; 2009-07-11 at 11:34.
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 09:45   Link #326
Majek
Sm3rt teh M@d Jester
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SLB, Slovenia
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So it's okay to kill people because you know nothing about them and they might be puppy kickers? From what we've seen, they were just soldiers, fighting to protect their country.
All of them believe they can kill him and they know nothing about him. So why should things be any other for them?
__________________
"I cannot be caged! I cannot be controlled! Understand this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools!"

http://icandoit.mybrute.com - fight me !!
Majek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 12:30   Link #327
Lostdreams
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
I wonder what would happen if Koenzell unleashed his true form. Not his human/elf one. Or is the angel thing his true form. Also, theories on how this anime will end. Koenzell saves the world from the disaster, dies, and becomes a hero.
Lostdreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 14:01   Link #328
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
I don't think it will end any time soon. Though I am expecting this "kill the 7" arc to end relatively quickly given all that has come to pass.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 14:38   Link #329
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
You're in a flaming airship? do you just sit there and die instead of going to the lifeboats (which we know they have). I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing dead soldiers from that. Not that I care, if anything I think the author needs to give him some cold blood.
No time to evacuate everyone. Or to save the poor bastards below the ship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
All of them believe they can kill him and they know nothing about him. So why should things be any other for them?
They know he's the "hero killing rebel" and they know that they're soldiers with orders to get him. What more do you want?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 16:21   Link #330
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No time to evacuate everyone. Or to save the poor bastards below the ship.
You are too fast to drawing conclusions. Where's your proof anybody died? And as I read it he just sabotaged the ship, not destroy it, so it came crashing down not pluming down or else wouldn't he have died also? (unless I'm remembering something wrong)
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-10, 17:30   Link #331
Majek
Sm3rt teh M@d Jester
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SLB, Slovenia
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They know he's the "hero killing rebel" and they know that they're soldiers with orders to get him. What more do you want?
And why mustn't he be allowed to kill them then? They're out to kill him so it's killed or be killed. Why do you keep on blabbering about innocents and other crap?
__________________
"I cannot be caged! I cannot be controlled! Understand this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools!"

http://icandoit.mybrute.com - fight me !!
Majek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 04:20   Link #332
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
He doesn't believe in "silent leges inter arma" (tr. laws are silent in war), and has this view that those in power and those who follow them have absolute right and justice by their side and so Archriit has no right to kill them. From a political perspective (given we have here a monarchy of sorts) he's not wrong; but obviously a lot of us are not going to label Archriit hero or traitor based on the values of the scumbags in the show.

Just let it die Majek, we're only fueling a redundant and pointless nitpicking discussion.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 06:19   Link #333
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
He doesn't believe in "silent leges inter arma" (tr. laws are silent in war), and has this view that those in power and those who follow them have absolute right and justice by their side and so Archriit has no right to kill them. From a political perspective (given we have here a monarchy of sorts) he's not wrong; but obviously a lot of us are not going to label Archriit hero or traitor based on the values of the scumbags in the show.

Just let it die Majek, we're only fueling a redundant and pointless nitpicking discussion.
Sigh. No. I do not believe that those in power are automatically right. However, I believe that those soldiers are victims, not criminals. They've been deceived, and are following perfectly lawful orders.

Asheritt, on the other hand, knowingly attacks innocents. It's different. He may have his reasons, and they may be enough to justify the steps he's taken. But that doesn't change the fact that he has, indeed, killed innocents for his revenge. To say otherwise would only cheapen him.

I also believe that "it's war" isn't a good excuse for anything. Especially when not at war.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 06:21   Link #334
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
Is Your Daddy & Its True
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the Sky with the Birds
Somebody please!!!!!!!!!
Tell me why its taking sooooooooo long for chapter 75 to be released???!!!
__________________



'̿ ̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ '̿
Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 06:55   Link #335
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
No asking for when next episode/chapter is released. // forum policy =P
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 08:28   Link #336
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
Is Your Daddy & Its True
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the Sky with the Birds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
No asking for when next episode/chapter is released. // forum policy =P
Didn't know that.
Thanks for letting me know
__________________



'̿ ̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ '̿
Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-11, 08:32   Link #337
Direwolf18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
You are too fast to drawing conclusions. Where's your proof anybody died? And as I read it he just sabotaged the ship, not destroy it, so it came crashing down not pluming down or else wouldn't he have died also? (unless I'm remembering something wrong)
Generally speaking when a ship sinks or a plane crashes people are going to die. And frequently many people will die. There is a reason the whole Miracle in the Hudson thing was such a big deal. To say nothing of the fact that this was a warship. Look at any warship that has gone down via enemy fire and find me an example of no one dying. Its just the way it goes. Unless of course the author tries to go with some Dues Ex Machina but for some reason I doubt it. While yes its true the author did not explicitly say people died when it crashed its a pretty safe bet.

My opinion of this good guy bad guy debate is this. Yes he has killed soldiers, however he does not enjoy it, or revel in their death and destruction like Alucard would. He isnt going out of his way to kill people, but he wont let a body count of those who are trying to stop him from seeing something that almost looks like Justice be done. He may regret the necessity of their deaths but he isnt exactly overwhelmed with options.

Now the soldiers that he killed that were blatantly trying to harm inocent civilians, thats a whole nother story.
Direwolf18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-12, 17:56   Link #338
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
vol9 in chinese is out
__________________
Xellos-_^ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-12, 20:30   Link #339
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
killed innocents for his revenge
Innocent of what?

They support a corrupt regime, in fact they are fighting for it. In order to fight against that regime, one would inevitably come into conflict with those who support it. Its natural, theres nothing wrong with that. Its not like Koinzell is a murderer. He is fighting a war here.

Quote:
"Country vs 1 person" isn't a war by any reasonable definition. Not even a civil war.
..

War is just defined as a conflict between two entities.

Theres been a war against drugs, a war against terrorism and a war against aids. At least this country versus 1 man war is more then just a metaphorical war right?
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 04:55   Link #340
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Innocent of what?

They support a corrupt regime, in fact they are fighting for it. In order to fight against that regime, one would inevitably come into conflict with those who support it. Its natural, theres nothing wrong with that. Its not like Koinzell is a murderer. He is fighting a war here.
That argument would have more weight if Koinzell was trying to overthrow the empire. He's not. Even now, he still wishes for its stability and prosperity - he just wants his vengeance more.

And the soldiers he fights aren't some jackbooted thugs (Barestar's troops notwithstanding). They don't know the heroes are "corrupt". They're just soldiers protecting their country, with courage and discipline. As far as Koinzell is concerned, that makes them good people.

Quote:
War is just defined as a conflict between two entities.

Theres been a war against drugs, a war against terrorism and a war against aids. At least this country versus 1 man war is more then just a metaphorical war right?
I said "reasonable definition". That doesn't include the government using it like a buzzword. Or what, the next time you see a schoolyard fight, you're going to call it a war? And if one kid kills the other, shrug it off? I mean, it's war. Or what about some juvie defacing a public building with graffiti? That's war, too?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.