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Old 2011-06-07, 20:13   Link #21
4as
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
That's a bit optimistic. I doubt the kids who've killed themselves because of bullying had it any better than her. I doubt anyone'd call the police, party because of the bystander effect and partly because they'd be worried about their own skin.
I thinking the same here.
Even tho Ive never seen that serious bulling, I would have no doubts hearing a story like that in real life.
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Old 2011-06-08, 01:57   Link #22
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
the bystander effect and partly because they'd be worried about their own skin.
Things like this stop applying when people are made very, very aware of just how badly the victims are being treated.

I'm not trying to claim that typical bullying isn't cruel, I'm claiming that bullying of the level Aeka suffered is highly unusual and it would be even rarer for some authority figure to not notice that something was odd, or that some student wouldn't contact an authority figure. School counselors exist for a reason.

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Originally Posted by 4as View Post
I would have no doubts hearing a story like that in real life.
Destroying rather than spending stolen money and tasing people in the middle of class strike me as the sort of thing that would never, ever happen.
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Old 2011-06-08, 03:47   Link #23
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Things like this stop applying when people are made very, very aware of just how badly the victims are being treated.
I think you're confusing the way things are with the way things should be. Not trying to start a debate or anything, but the way we think during times of comfort is completely different than how we think when these things are happening right in front of us. People begin making up excuses that seem logical and probably are, but have them doing nothing as the end result.
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Old 2011-06-08, 08:36   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Destroying rather than spending stolen money and tasing people in the middle of class strike me as the sort of thing that would never, ever happen.
I guess then you only see the better part of life.
I would have no doubts since Ive read about similar stuff, liked knifed during the class and then hospitalized.
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Old 2011-06-08, 18:35   Link #25
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Btw on the subject of bully and Japanese high school, you might want to check on the manga Onani Master Kurosawa. Don't be deceived by the title. That manga was a serious business.
Thanks. I'm not usually a manga person, but this one is only 4 volumes long so I'll check it out.
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Old 2011-06-09, 00:15   Link #26
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One part I found strange in Aeka's route was the tasers/stunguns. Is it really that difficult to spot one?

I also found Nekoko's route to be the highlight of the VN. Also considering the title, I feel that Nekoko is the main heroine of the series (no pun intended).
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Old 2011-06-09, 00:37   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
One part I found strange in Aeka's route was the tasers/stunguns. Is it really that difficult to spot one?
No, it's not, which is one of the many reasons why Aeka's route is so ridiculous.
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Old 2011-06-09, 10:10   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
One part I found strange in Aeka's route was the tasers/stunguns. Is it really that difficult to spot one?
It was in the shape of a pen IIRC. I've actually seen one in real life; it's shaped like a normal click pen, but when you push the button in, it gives you a nasty shock. It's kind of a gag toy, like a hand buzzer. Luckily when my friend asked me to click it open, it either ran out of batteries or misfired.
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Old 2011-06-09, 10:25   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
It was in the shape of a pen IIRC. I've actually seen one in real life; it's shaped like a normal click pen, but when you push the button in, it gives you a nasty shock. It's kind of a gag toy, like a hand buzzer. Luckily when my friend asked me to click it open, it either ran out of batteries or misfired.
Given how Aeka was acting after being shocked I'm pretty sure it was an actual taser.
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Old 2011-06-09, 18:12   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
It was in the shape of a pen IIRC. I've actually seen one in real life; it's shaped like a normal click pen, but when you push the button in, it gives you a nasty shock. It's kind of a gag toy, like a hand buzzer. Luckily when my friend asked me to click it open, it either ran out of batteries or misfired.
No, I'm pretty sure it was an actual taser. Those gag pens don't have enough power to disable someone and send them falling. Even if the taser itself could be hidden, I don't see how someone couldn't tell when a body has been shocked by one. There's nothing else that could make the human body collapse so abruptly.

Anyway... no love for Nekoko and her story?
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Old 2011-06-09, 19:58   Link #31
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Anyway... no love for Nekoko and her story?
Not really, her route was nice, but Mizuki's was better.
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Old 2011-06-09, 20:22   Link #32
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^Agreed, but only by a bit imo. The characters were pretty balanced in YMK (having only 3 of em probably helped).

I don't remember the specifics of what happened with the stunning, but if she fell out of her seat then you're probably right about it being a real stun pen. But even if they did see it, it's not like their bullying was a secret in the first place. The teacher could've conceivably not seen the spark since she was attacked by behind and it conveniently left little mess.
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Old 2011-06-10, 03:34   Link #33
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But even if they did see it, it's not like their bullying was a secret in the first place.
This is actually what bothers me the most; the bystander effect only really applies to single isolated incidents. I have trouble accepting that not even a single student would be brave/intelligent enough to contact the authorities after seeing Aeka suffer undeservedly every single day, but no one, not even Kouhei, ends up doing this.

Tragic stories only work if they're believable.
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Old 2011-06-10, 17:50   Link #34
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In Japan, it is common for the whole class to bully a victim (if there is one), whether actively or passively. The suicide rates of these students are worryingly high, suggesting worryingly horrible bully.

One factor that could make a difference (and possibly their savior) is the teachers. However you could see in GTO that teachers are by no means safe from student bullying either, so teacher intervention could actually worsen the situation.

The fact that the whole class is involved, only means that calling the police would mean little. Sure, the Alpha Bully could be taken care of by calling the police, but there's a chance other less dominant bullies will start to emerge. Unless the police dared pressing charges to the whole student and the school staff. Not to mention the bully's parents attempt to defend their child anyways.

Aeka's case was worsened by child neglect and abuse, so it really is a miracle she didn't suicide faster than she would.

The taser though I agree could be pushing it a bit too far. However, human never ceases to amaze me so far, so...
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Old 2012-01-07, 08:23   Link #35
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Just finished Nekoko's route. I'll rate it just slightly lower than Aeka's route because it just didn't have the same roller-coaster of emotions, but it was a lot better than Mizuki's route. The whole fairy nonsense and antics annoyed me a bit, but the route steadily improved for me until it reached a jaw-droppingly beautiful and heartwarming conclusion.
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Old 2012-01-07, 09:40   Link #36
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I'll take it that you don't like Mizuki's route that much? I still find that quite heartwarming solely because of that last CG ;_;
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Old 2012-01-08, 00:56   Link #37
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^
I'll take it that you don't like Mizuki's route that much? I still find that quite heartwarming solely because of that last CG ;_;
I can't say that I hated it, but I was put off by Mizuki's lazy and careless personality, and her problem felt incredibly trivial next to the other two girls. But yeah, her ending was pretty good.
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Old 2012-04-19, 06:10   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Don't worry, no bullying is that bad. Someone would call the police eventually if it was.

This is actually why I hate Aeka's route, it's completely ridiculous, especially that scene where they destroyed the equivalent of two hundred dollars. No one destroys that much money, that would be stupid.



The bullying in that is, for the most part, the 'hands-off' type more typical of Japanese people. Very different from the stuff in Aeka's route.
though it has never happened to me "i tend to respond to attempted bullying to simply fighting back physically as a kid" I have friends who have gone through it from what they have told me. While personally I just dont take sht from people, generally its a lot worse over there in Asia where there is a lot more pressure in school. Also since in Asia, typically in China or Japan, your career usually depends on bonds you make in school so it was more of a family type environment where you can't really respond to bully by telling teachers or police. They typically dont respond positively. Honestly I believe bullying in reality may very well be worse than what we've seen in Aeka's route.


As for this game, I felt it was superbly done. My emotions were indeed under the spell of the game throughout all 3 routes of the game. Its hard for me to pick which one I enjoyed the most since i loved them all, but Mizuki's would have to top them all, simply because she had your kid and they showed a positive, happy epilogue where you're seen to have a family. Nekoko's was left open and Aeka's simply depicted as her being completely dependent on you and doesnt really conclude much except that you hope she will be happy with you for now on.
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Old 2012-04-19, 06:14   Link #39
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Though it absolutely blows to realize to play the other's routes means you're condemning the other 2 to possibly critical condition/possible death.
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Old 2013-01-16, 18:40   Link #40
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It's part of why I became misanthropic somewhat. The more you learn about humans, the more you will be disgusted how inhumane we can become.
And yet, we humans were able to create this game, giving hope and touching each other's hearts.

yeah, yeah, its just a game. but it gave me all the feels.
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