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Old 2009-06-28, 13:43   Link #1881
Fate21
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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
Everything that appeals to the fans is fanservice, so technically most elements of this series can be considered that, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to take them seriously. Besides, since the second half of Strikers they have been using their relationship for plot purposes, and now forming a family with Vivio, as we can see better in the fourth season.
Their relationship has been always implied, but as time passes they are making more apparent what is assumed. If they keep this progression they can decide to state they relationship directly when the right time comes. Since it sells maybe they can do it for an important date like the release of the movie or of a potential new animated season that can keep focus in Vivio or in other characters.

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Old 2009-06-28, 14:05   Link #1882
Keroko
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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
I doubt the writer would relate him to Yuuno using his profession, seeing how he intentionally wrote him off. If Touma needs a sensei probably they would go for a new character, but I don't think that this is place to discuss that, and so far we don't know much of Force either.
You have a strange definition of 'written out' of the series. Hell, even Ix was written out of the series better, and look at Vivid's latest chapter.

So yeah, while I can't say we will see Yuuno in Force, I am most definitely not excluding his presence either. I don't see why they would replace him with a new character when he is perfectly fit to suit the role, and would be perfect to.

Long story short: No, I do not agree with putting Yuuno down yet. Especially since Force also seems to be focusing on the hetero side of romance (what with that nice Touma/Lily spread and all).
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Old 2009-06-28, 14:13   Link #1883
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Nor do I, like jury duty, if you get out of one, you could very well be called upon again later.

Yuuno is available, whether or not he'll be used is a guess as good as any.
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Old 2009-06-28, 14:16   Link #1884
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Pretty much. Heck, I'm not even saying it's likely, I'm merely saying its possible.
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Old 2009-06-28, 15:13   Link #1885
BPHaru
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You have a strange definition of 'written out' of the series. Hell, even Ix was written out of the series better, and look at Vivid's latest chapter.
I don't know what is the correct word, I have seen some people calling him and Arf "shafted".

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So yeah, while I can't say we will see Yuuno in Force, I am most definitely not excluding his presence either. I don't see why they would replace him with a new character when he is perfectly fit to suit the role, and would be perfect to.
Because there is a tendency to add new characters, and a new character can have a different background that can serve for different plot purposes, and it's not attached to the image of Yuuno that we all know so well.

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Long story short: No, I do not agree with putting Yuuno down yet. Especially since Force also seems to be focusing on the hetero side of romance (what with that nice Touma/Lily spread and all).
In my opinion the character is already down, but the question is if he and Arf will appear again. About romance, there aren't actual romantic possibilities for a character in his position, maybe Arf but there is nothing developed there, also this series is focuses more to yuri, and for hetero you have chances to see something with Touma and Lily.

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Pretty much. Heck, I'm not even saying it's likely, I'm merely saying its possible.
Yes, that's what I was saying too. It's possible because the scenario is still uncertain, I'm only saying that it's not likely going to happen (to have him involved in the plot, but a cameo to show him and Arf alive and showing their support to our favorite family is something different), taking in count the actual direction of the series, what have the author made with the characters, and external factors like their (un)popularity.

@itanashi: You're repeating yourself. If you want to go forward with this discussion about discussion I suggest you using PM, but I think this is pointless.

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Old 2009-06-28, 15:37   Link #1886
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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
I don't know what is the correct word, I have seen some people calling him and Arf "shafted".
"shafted" means 'a lack of screentime.' For example, Zafira was shafted badly, having only a handful of lines that are only slightly surpassed by his appearances. All in wolf form. Hayate was shafted as well, and was arguably the worst victim, being one of the two magical girl not to have a transformation sequence, even though she was one of the main characters. She also lacked a proper battle scene.

And, yes, Yuuno and Arf were shafted as well, having only a few token appearances.

As for new characters... well, I agree that there is a tendency to add new characters, but I would also add that there is a tendency to link them to the older characters. Even more so where the protagonists are concerned. Hayate was linked to Suzuka, Subaru was linked to Nanoha, Erio and Caro to Fate, and so on. In this way, it would make sense for Touma to be linked to Yuuno, considering the common interest these two share.

Which brings to 'the image of Yuuno we all know so well' which is... an archaeologist working in the Infinite Library. An image that would make him the perfect person to 'know Touma' as it were.

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About romance, there aren't actual romantic possibilities for a character in his position, maybe Arf but there is nothing developed there, also this series is focuses more to yuri, and for hetero you have chances to see something with Touma and Lily.
Ahh... you somewhat missed my point. Perhaps I should be more direct, what I am saying is that with Force shoving a hetero couple to the forefront, there is a chance that there might be some Yuunoha fanservice thrown around as well.
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Old 2009-06-28, 15:52   Link #1887
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Which brings to 'the image of Yuuno we all know so well' which is... an archaeologist working in the Infinite Library. An image that would make him the perfect person to 'know Touma' as it were.
My mistake, I wasn't referring to that, but to the negative image that part of the fans have of him, and his unpopularity, not about the character's occupation.

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Ahh... you somewhat missed my point. Perhaps I should be more direct, what I am saying is that with Force shoving a hetero couple to the forefront, there is a chance that there might be some Yuunoha fanservice thrown around as well.
That's not likely going to happen considering that they already put Yuuno and Arf as supportive characters for Nanoha and Fate's relationship and their family with Vivio when they noticed the insane popularity levels that the main couple of this series got during and after the third season. They also denied any possibilities of conflictive relationships with Nanoha and Fate's, and their romantic bond is implied more than ever as the time passes as we can see in the latest installments of the series with them as a mature couple raising a healthy child together. This is a major part of this series that has attracted a considerable part of the actual fan base, but that is also supported by the rest of it, so putting so much market in risk in their actual situation wouldn't be a good strategy. On the other hand, moving their relationship forward as we have been seeing seems like the logical strategic next step, so hopefully soon or later we'll see their relationship directly stated in the official media.

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Last edited by BPHaru; 2009-06-28 at 17:49. Reason: some grammar
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:53   Link #1888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
...putting Yuuno down...
If you kill him, I will hurt you.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were some [more] hints of Yuunoha in Force; nor would I be surprised if there were more teasing hints of Nanofate in Force. What I don't expect is a clear answer.

The only thing I shall go on record wanting: More Yuuno screentime. That, and Hayate to have a kickass battle.
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:26   Link #1889
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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were some [more] hints of Yuunoha in Force; nor would I be surprised if there were more teasing hints of Nanofate in Force. What I don't expect is a clear answer.
I suppose most people would be surprised if all of sudden they were to bring Yuuno back and forget the clear NanoFate route that they have been following since Strikers to imply something between Nanoha or Fate and him, after all NanoFate is pretty much assumed by most part of the fanbase, and also we should consider that basically there is no niche for that market seeing the popularity of those pairings and that NanoFate is still one of the main pillar of the yuri genre right now. What you mentioned seems to me like a bad commercial strategy if they want to appeal to their actual market and to keep their expansion, they negated any possibilities of romance involving Yuuno and Nanoha or Fate and put him as someone supporting their relationship and family, so their intentions seems clear about him, and especially about NanoFate. And let's not mention that after so much years that Nanoha and Fate are together, working hard to raise a beautiful family together, it would be terribly wrong to go against all of this and what is one of the main elements of fluff for the fans.

There are possibilities of seeing more Yuuno and Arf (probably a cameo with Vivio or with Touma as suggested Keroko), but it would be hard to have at this point the author started putting in risk one of their main selling points and following a bad strategy to appeal to their market.

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Old 2009-06-28, 22:16   Link #1890
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Clear NanoFate? No, siree, that has NEVER been clear.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:41   Link #1891
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Clear NanoFate? No, siree, that has NEVER been clear.
I'm sorry if I caused a misunderstanding, I was revering to the direction of the plot line, it wasn't about if there are people that doesn't considers the pairing canon. Since Strikers the intentions of the author with this pairing have been portrayed quite straightforward and have been developing fast too, to the point of what we see now in the fourth season. In my opinion that was a smart decision with a good reaction in the fanbase, but I would prefer to see it in animated media to see something more massive (well, at least we have our Nanoha School Days, but I doubt that someday they will bring us an official animated season with Nanoha and Fate during their high school days showing us how they got together).

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Old 2009-06-28, 23:27   Link #1892
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I am still under the impression that NanoFate was just something that was interpreted by the fans. The author/director clearly has not given any other canon couples. (other than ChronoAmy)

@Bpharu: Just because you strongly support nanofate (and the other 70 percent of fans I guess are NXF), doesn't mean it's canon.

If that were so, the only couples I see in Nanoha is: nanohaXwork (give "work" a personification/human body if you wish) and YuunoXBook/Library.
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Old 2009-06-28, 23:42   Link #1893
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I am still under the impression that NanoFate was just something that was interpreted by the fans. The author/director clearly has not given any other canon couples. (other than ChronoAmy)

@Bpharu: Just because you strongly support nanofate (and the other 70 percent of fans I guess are NXF), doesn't mean it's canon.
Yes, NanoFate is something interpreted by the fans, because the scenario is open to interpretation since it hasn't been stated directly that they are lovers, but the possibility has never, ever been denied (in fact, when they have been directly asked about the subject they have always avoided it), and taking all the elements of their relationship you have most of them pointing to them being a couple, that's why most people assume them that way, because the elements were purposely stated that way and with each installment of this franchise we have more reasons to believe so. If you want to go for the odds the answer should be yes, they are a couple, but it's not canon and you can go against the flow and affirm that they live like a couple raising a child together but their relationship doesn't involve physical expression of love when they are out of camera.

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If that were so, the only couples I see in Nanoha is: nanohaXwork
Analyzing this quote seriously for the first time, I think that it could be true in part until episode 2 of strikers, then in episode 3 we see how close effectively Nanoha and Fate are and we should start to doubt, but taken that aside, at this date the pairing definitely should be Nanoha x Family, with family being Fate + Vivio.

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Old 2009-06-29, 02:03   Link #1894
Keroko
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I suppose most people would be surprised if all of sudden they were to bring Yuuno back and forget the clear NanoFate route that they have been following since Strikers to imply something between Nanoha or Fate and him,
Well of course you would be surprised, because you choose not to see all the Yuunoha points scattered throughout StrikerS. But just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there for the other fans to pick up.

As for their 'canonical status' even Vivid goes with the flow of 'best friend.' People who don't see them as canon are hardly going 'against the flow.'
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Old 2009-06-29, 06:13   Link #1895
Fate21
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Because Nanoha and Fate get the highest poll score, so i thought it's right to have more Nanoha and Fate scene than other characters.
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Old 2009-06-29, 06:39   Link #1896
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Polls and public demands should NEVER determine the outcome of a loose story thread.

Last edited by Sheba; 2009-06-29 at 08:03.
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Old 2009-06-29, 09:55   Link #1897
BPHaru
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Well of course you would be surprised, because you choose not to see all the Yuunoha points scattered throughout StrikerS. But just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there for the other fans to pick up.
Not only me, but most people because most fans has already assumed Nanoha and Fate relationship because it's highly implied since Strikers. That scene in episode 8 of strikers can be considered as "Yuunoha" if you don't want to interpret it as two friends that didn't see each other after years, ineither case the fan reaction was negative, but that's not the point, but that after that the NanoFate relationship became even stronger, and as a response to the fans they cleared that there was nothing with Yuuno, leaving him in something that personally I interpret as a big brother role to Nanoha, and supporting her and Fate in their relationship, and later their family with Vivio.

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As for their 'canonical status' even Vivid goes with the flow of 'best friend.' People who don't see them as canon are hardly going 'against the flow.'
Since Strikers is highly implied that they are more than "best friends", in Vivid we see them as the most important person of each other and living as a family in a mature relationship, where Fate takes the role of the father working away, just as was stated previously in the "opinions" of that staff working in the series that are supposed to not be canon. They are never stated "just" as best friends in the whole canon material, that's why the implications of their relationship is so strong
The flow is what most people thinks, not what is canon, because with most definitions of "couple" you can't guarantee that Nanoha and Fate are in that kind of relationship, but the odds are high.

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Polls and public demands should NEVER determine the outcome of a loose story thread.
It' s a good marketing strategy and they seem to be trying to do that with the series since always.

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Old 2009-06-29, 10:09   Link #1898
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What I meant with 'even Vivid goes with the flow of best friend' was that side note on page 7. Not the subtext.
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Old 2009-06-29, 10:23   Link #1899
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What I meant with 'even Vivid goes with the flow of best friend' was that side note on page 7. Not the subtext.
It's said that they are best friends, which is what they have always said since when they were 9 (except that now they are adding a heart xD " Best Friends ♥"), but anyway this doesn't limit their relationship to more than that unless it's stated otherwise. Besides, now they're pretty much accepting that they are the closest person of each other, and we see them as close, if not closer than in Strikers, even if they spent more time together back then.
We really can't expect that they will let out so casually that they have been together as lovers since always. When they do it they should do something big considering the great amount of fans looking forward to that.

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Old 2009-06-29, 10:28   Link #1900
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yes, but it may not mean anything more than best friends either. you're working with a lot of assumptions here, haru.
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