AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Fansub Groups

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-05-18, 01:26   Link #41
edogawaconan
LOL?
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indonesia
Send a message via MSN to edogawaconan Send a message via Yahoo to edogawaconan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starks View Post
I still don't understand the aim of fansubbers using H.264... I see 3 distinct approaches.

Are we trying to beat XviD in quality at the same filesize?

Cram more quality into a larger filesize just for the hell of it?

Exceed XviD quality at substandard filesizes?
all three of them are same things (in one side and another)
filtering is still the real key though.
oh and perhaps, easier to learn and less need in custom quantizer matrix?
__________________
edogawaconan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-18, 02:35   Link #42
Quarkboy
Anime Translator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to Quarkboy
Actually, I'd say there is one agreed upon use of H.264.

High def/high resolution encodes. For 640x480 or 704x400 resolutions, xvid can give quite good (though not nearly as good as x264) results in <200 MB filesizes, once you get into the 720p or even 1080p resolutions, you really start to see xvid's limitations.

To get a decent looking encode at 720p, you need filesizes from 350 - 500 MB with xvid. H.264 gives great results down to 200 MB even on such HD resolutions.

Basically, the higher the resolution, the more benefit you can get out of using the more advanced codec. The tradeoff is that it takes a decent (newer than, say 3 years) old computer to playback H.264 at 1280x720, and a Core 2 duo to playback 1920x1080 stuff (not like anything is broadcast like that, but if OVAs or movies start being released on Blu-ray, we might begin to see true 1080p raws for things that aren't licensed).
__________________
Yomiuri Television Enterprise
International Media Strategy Chief
Sam Pinansky
Quarkboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-18, 09:15   Link #43
Sylf
翻訳家わなびぃ
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 40
Send a message via MSN to Sylf Send a message via Yahoo to Sylf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholi View Post
Copyright and patent the methods in fansubbing, form an International Fansub Police Agency, then control the direction of the community n_n. It's that simple folks!

*bang bang* This is the I.F.P.A., we have reports that you have been fansubbing using means other then those dictated by The Community. Turn over yourself and all your scripts and nobody shoots the catgirls!
I don't agree with the policies set force by I.F.P.A. I'm going to establish Community Fansub Consortium, and will generate our own RFC regarding to fansubbing processes. And I hereby declare, not the format, but the methodology war of fansubbing!
Sylf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-18, 14:09   Link #44
Nicholi
King of Hosers
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 31
An insurgent to the order and clarity of the benevolent I.F.P.A. brings us, he must be purged with fire! Let the Holy Fansub Wars begin. n_n
Nicholi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-22, 12:50   Link #45
[darkfire]
Give them the What For!
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cave of Evil- Invite Only
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to [darkfire] Send a message via Yahoo to [darkfire] Send a message via Skype™ to [darkfire]
Starks, Negima is not and has never been in HD. The raw you have is the friday airing on BSI. Bsi upscaled. When I encoded it it was easy to tell. It aired tuesday in 4:3 and 16:9 on thursday. The show is not vfr. The ending is though.
__________________
"Lepers, women are Lepers" - Sheriff of Nottingham
[darkfire] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-23, 12:43   Link #46
Starks
I see what you did there!
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Starks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Basically, the higher the resolution, the more benefit you can get out of using the more advanced codec. The tradeoff is that it takes a decent (newer than, say 3 years) old computer to playback H.264 at 1280x720, and a Core 2 duo to playback 1920x1080 stuff (not like anything is broadcast like that, but if OVAs or movies start being released on Blu-ray, we might begin to see true 1080p raws for things that aren't licensed).
Isn't non-upscaled and native 1080p anime 1 or 2 years off from now?
__________________
Starks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-23, 16:24   Link #47
Bot1
The Supreme Pontiff
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
who know, lets see how good paprika that got released todat is
__________________

AKA Malakith
Bot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-25, 09:46   Link #48
Shounen
Away for good
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 26
Going back on topic....

I plan to release DVD rips of old and new stuff which isn't licensed, and probably never will be.

After following the history of divx3.11alpha -> divx4/5 -> WMV3(9) / XviD 1.1 (some DivX 6 also... wasn't that happy with the results) and now H264. I finally settled down with H264 (or what you may now want to call it: decoder/encoder wise!) (still waiting for Snow tho)

I know the gains from going VFR rather than CFR, but i don't feel like playing around with the video content that much. Now what settings (some recommendations here) should I use for Anime and Live recordings?

I heard that the profile for MEgui, the AE-Goodquality was a good one but what about Live recordings? Should I hold on to XviD, or should i switch over to H264? I don't wanna smudge nor make the video content to much blurry (even if we don't use that word anymore )

Live stuff is pretty easy to handle compared to Anime. But still...

I intend to hold onto the 233mb size for 22-26min episodes, and probably use 128 kbps for audio, so you might have figured out the video bitrate already. Live recordings (and Movies/Series) are gonna be around 350mb-1.5Gb depending on the running time of course. Ill be using 704x400 and 640x480 for the 4:3 stuffish.

Ill be using MKV as container, due to that its alot easier to hand out a single file, rather than having an exteral .ass (ill be using softsubs yes) file with an MP4 running apart.

I hand over my regards to those that care-

-Shounen
__________________

Shounen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-25, 21:32   Link #49
checkers
Part 8
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Western Australia
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to checkers
Try the HQ-Slow preset, and preferably use one of the slower ones in that set.
checkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 00:37   Link #50
Esente
OEC's TypeSetter+Encoder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Wow, I just registered to give my 2cent
About the agreement on a community of x264... I don't think it's a bad idea. I don't know if I can talk about warez here, but there're scene rules that scene groups always follow. It would not be too specific to make every group the same, but at least restrict some bad encoding as well as too good encoding. For example, an anime episode should be around 200MB (just an example) and an anime movie should be around 700MB. Then specific file-name rules so that it'd be easy to organize, blah, blah.

As for *264, I think a recommended bitrate as well as profile would make it easy to follow.

But again, I'm more in the scene than in anime releases, so don't kill me if I said anything wrong.
Esente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 01:04   Link #51
edogawaconan
LOL?
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indonesia
Send a message via MSN to edogawaconan Send a message via Yahoo to edogawaconan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esente View Post
Wow, I just registered to give my 2cent
About the agreement on a community of x264... I don't think it's a bad idea. I don't know if I can talk about warez here, but there're scene rules that scene groups always follow. It would not be too specific to make every group the same, but at least restrict some bad encoding as well as too good encoding. For example, an anime episode should be around 200MB (just an example) and an anime movie should be around 700MB. Then specific file-name rules so that it'd be easy to organize, blah, blah.

As for *264, I think a recommended bitrate as well as profile would make it easy to follow.

But again, I'm more in the scene than in anime releases, so don't kill me if I said anything wrong.
I must agree to file naming rule.

but for the filesize, it's impossible to force to a size. there're many factors need to be considered: resolution, fps, how's the scenes (quiet/explosive/dark/etc), encoding time, etc; and the audio is the same: amount of channel, codec used, etc.
at most, there'll be a guidelines. but there won't be an exact size.
edogawaconan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 02:25   Link #52
TheFluff
Excessively jovial fellow
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 27
The scene rules are idiotic. What they have been incredibly successful in doing so far is making more or less everything look like shit, for absolutely no advantages whatsoever except making everything play in shitty DVD players with DivX support.
It doesn't really help that most of the scene encoders are completely clueless newbs that use Gordian Knot, 1-pass ABR XviD and automated dumb IVTC'ing, and care more about short encoding times than high quality...
__________________
| ffmpegsource
17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
TheFluff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 02:25   Link #53
Esente
OEC's TypeSetter+Encoder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
The keyword is "around".

Even though there are a lot of factors, say plus and minus 10MB is okay enough?

@TheFluff:
Not like anime scene, warez scene is more or less a competition. Groups trying to get their names known and beat the other groups. That's why they try to please as many audience as possible.

However, I believe some rules are really good, imho! But I'm not gonna argue about that.
Esente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 02:38   Link #54
Nicholi
King of Hosers
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esente
It would not be too specific to make every group the same, but at least restrict some bad encoding as well as too good encoding.
I agree whole heartedly. Bad encoding should just end. How to implement this? Require every encoder from the interblag to register with the Encoders Guild. Each registered encoder will be required to enroll in up to 6 units of classes each yearly quarter. If the encoder's PSNR drops below average they will be put on QC probation, where their every move is questioned! Following this if their PSNR continues to drop they will be required to forfeit one appendage. Surely this should cut down on shitty encodes that burn through my eyes and makes me cry tears of blood? Also the plus side of keeping away the idiots that are only good at pressing "Save As" in VirtualDub. After all they are what is killing /....err the anime community!

Oh wait...the warez scene has likely the worst quality video in the world. 90% of them use AutoGK/enter newb app or guide here. Guess theres no hope ;-;. Can't teach ignorance how to properly encode.

Footnote: Seriously I was once idling in a channel long enough and chatting with said hosers that they asked if I wanted to help with some of the DVDs I had. They said I had to use AutoGK as that is what "everyone" uses. I lulled so hard. AutoGK is 1000x worse then Gordian Knot, you actually have control in Gordian Knot. Someone once told me AutoGK was bad...but I didn't believe him...I had to gaze upon the horror for myself.
Nicholi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 02:59   Link #55
TheFluff
Excessively jovial fellow
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 27
Another funky thing with the scene rules is that while the rest of the world has happily moved on, the scene remains stuck in 1998. Seriously, people, SVCD!? 512x384 XviD encodes? Not quite as unlikely in 2007 as you may think! (OK, maybe not SVCD anymore, at least not that much. But it was fairly common just two years ago or so, while the rest of the word was just starting to make the switch to MKV/H.264.)
__________________
| ffmpegsource
17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
TheFluff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 03:03   Link #56
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esente View Post
Not like anime scene, warez scene is more or less a competition. Groups trying to get their names known and beat the other groups. That's why they try to please as many audience as possible.
And how is the anime warez scene not a competition?
__________________
cyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 04:15   Link #57
Esente
OEC's TypeSetter+Encoder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toua View Post
And how is the anime warez scene not a competition?
Didn't I just read that we, well...you, as fansubbers, make fansub as your own, and do not care what others want? Well, if you don't care about other groups, then where is the competition. Of course, there is till competition among "young" groups that do not apply the "true" concept of fansubbing. But as you may ask some pro. fansub group, they only release what they want, and do not race with recent releases.

@TheFluff: I agree. However, as I said before, it's the world where the audience has the most effects on the quality and quantity of releases. The biggest limitation of x264 is that people with old computers will have problems. So.. they choose to follow the majority and stick with the bad quality and resolution.

But behold, some scene groups begin to make adjustment. There was also a new scene rules for *264 release few months ago. (even though, rumors said it was fake )
Esente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 06:28   Link #58
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esente View Post
Didn't I just read that we, well...you, as fansubbers, make fansub as your own, and do not care what others want? Well, if you don't care about other groups, then where is the competition. Of course, there is till competition among "young" groups that do not apply the "true" concept of fansubbing. But as you may ask some pro. fansub group, they only release what they want, and do not race with recent releases.
Perhaps this isn't the right thread to be discussing this in, but myself being a fansubber now for more than three and a half years (and listening to a passionate discussion about this last week), I'd say it's somewhat discouraging if a crappy speedsubber releases an episode faster than your group who's put some real work into it. The same can be said when you think your group put a lot of effort into something, but another group releases something faster and better. Positive feedback from the leechers is, no matter what any über-mensch-wannabe-fansubber says, essential fuel for most of us. It comes in many forms--downloads numbers, IRC channel activity, encouraging forum posts, quality work recognition--downloads numbers being the most important. Some people handle negative feedback or no feedback better than others, but certainly it is no different for established groups and experienced fansubbers than it is for novices. In a lot of cases experienced fansubbers become bitter and disappointed over the scene later on, either because they can't adapt to it or because they believe noone appreciates what they do anymore.
The scene will not die if they go away. They will be replaced and only the best of the best will be remembered, if at all. It's the competition that's driving many people out of this business. Naturally, some grow old and weary, but the onslaught of countless newly formed groups popping up each season, and the support they're receiving, tells us the leechers aren't exactly looking for a quality fansub experience. They're looking for a fansub experience, period. With the current scene's dynamic fluidity, new groups have no time to settle in, learn the ropes properly, and put out something decent after a year or so. Nobody starts at the top, and so our little scene is staying at the bottom.
__________________
cyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 07:49   Link #59
Bot1
The Supreme Pontiff
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esente View Post
@TheFluff: I agree. However, as I said before, it's the world where the audience has the most effects on the quality and quantity of releases. The biggest limitation of x264 is that people with old computers will have problems. So.. they choose to follow the majority and stick with the bad quality and resolution.
people really need to get over this argument -__-

i spent 4 hours at work today throwing 72 computers out that were fast enough to play non-hd avc encodes because they were too old.
__________________

AKA Malakith
Bot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-07-17, 07:49   Link #60
checkers
Part 8
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Western Australia
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to checkers
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
Another funky thing with the scene rules is that while the rest of the world has happily moved on, the scene remains stuck in 1998. Seriously, people, SVCD!? 512x384 XviD encodes? Not quite as unlikely in 2007 as you may think! (OK, maybe not SVCD anymore, at least not that much. But it was fairly common just two years ago or so, while the rest of the word was just starting to make the switch to MKV/H.264.)
It's surprising, but the new h264 rules that have come about so far for TV shows and for movies are actually pretty good. There a still a few problems -- but hey, it's a standard, what do you expect
checkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.