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Old 2012-04-18, 09:15   Link #22221
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Out getting ice cream with Moka and Akasha.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
On a different topic don't you think that the definition of what Tsukune is used in chapter 52 is a little ambiguous - although personally I would say that it's outright contradictory, since someone who is a "human" is never supposed to possess the power of a vampire, and if he does obtain them, well those powers outright change that person into something that is different then a human.

Not to mention that this definition kind of ignores the fact that Tsukune's body is undergoing some changes due to the Shinso blood in his veins - and while not all of those changes could be done "naturally", since Tsukune wouldn't reach his current level of power, if he hadn't underwent the human modification ritual, it's still a fact that those "changes" have physically altered Tsukune's human body.

I mean, I'm quite certain if Tsukune has visited some "human" doctor, he would be outright called a "medical abnormality" and sent to some secret lab, for some "detailed examinations" of his current body.

Of course, I think that Ikeda has a purpose in defining Tsukune, like he has done in chapter 52 - he just doesn't want to reveal too early, what exactly Tsukune is turning into - which is most likely also the reason why are we still kept in the dark about the changes that Tsukune's body underwent, since he obtained Moka's Shinso blood.
Well, the saying goes like this: "He was reborn as a human who possessed the strength of a vampire", this saying should have also included the Human Modification Ritual and the fact that Tsukune has Shinso blood, but it didn't, so I interpreted it as referring to the first time Tsukune recieve vampire powers, that scene and pose it showed in 52 was when Moka first injected her vampire blood into Tsukune, until later when we learned it was actually Shinso vampire blood.

Tsukune has evolved in the series suffering major changes, like the ghoul, which caused him to finally physically transform into a vampire, but mentally had the mind of a killing machine, the Human Modification Ritual, which allowed his body to better suit the flow of youki, in Tsukune's case the Shinso power and gave him the ability to use youjutsu. Touhou also noted that Tsukune's body was "reborn", there is also Tsukune's vampire transformation in chapter 51, and finally the biggest change that Tsukune had was that Shinso monster form during the Human Modification Ritual, now that was something which definitely was far from being human.

So that saying in chapter 52 was basically referring to the first time that Tsukune recieved vampire powers from being injected with Moka's vampire/Shinso blood, but I would agree that the saying would be very ambiguous if it were referring to the current Tsukune, he has gone through so much change over the course of the series and there is very little humanity left inside him other than his humanity at heart, which is something that will never change. So calling the current Tsukune a human with vampire powers is an exaggeration.
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Old 2012-04-18, 23:14   Link #22222
Chris38
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@Shinso Tsukune

Well, I agree with you that Tsukune is becoming less human, due to the vampire blood within his veins, although I think there is one thing that you are mistaken about.

Tsukune has never physically became a vampire, or at the very least we don't have enough evidence to prove that - after all, think about it, if Tsukune physically became a vampire, he should be affected by their weaknesses as well as like Moka have periodic episodes, where his bloodlust becomes stronger.

After all, up till the current point of the manga we have seen neither of those two things affecting Tsukune, well unless you want to consider the events of chapter 27 of the first season as an demonstration of Tsukune actually developing a bloodlust, which considering how much the incident with Hokuto and Kiria kidnapping Moka in the first season has escalated, might be a possibility, but I still wouldn't say that physically Tsukune is a vampire - he's becoming something different, but it's certainly a being that can't be defined as a "human".

Second of all, Tsukune was never a Ghoul, since at that point of time he has already inherited Moka's Shinso blood, it's just that, until Tsukune has underwent the human modification ritual, his body hasn't been "compatible" enough to use the blood's full potential.
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Old 2012-04-19, 08:51   Link #22223
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
@Shinso Tsukune

Well, I agree with you that Tsukune is becoming less human, due to the vampire blood within his veins, although I think there is one thing that you are mistaken about.

Tsukune has never physically became a vampire, or at the very least we don't have enough evidence to prove that - after all, think about it, if Tsukune physically became a vampire, he should be affected by their weaknesses as well as like Moka have periodic episodes, where his bloodlust becomes stronger.

After all, up till the current point of the manga we have seen neither of those two things affecting Tsukune, well unless you want to consider the events of chapter 27 of the first season as an demonstration of Tsukune actually developing a bloodlust, which considering how much the incident with Hokuto and Kiria kidnapping Moka in the first season has escalated, might be a possibility, but I still wouldn't say that physically Tsukune is a vampire - he's becoming something different, but it's certainly a being that can't be defined as a "human".

Second of all, Tsukune was never a Ghoul, since at that point of time he has already inherited Moka's Shinso blood, it's just that, until Tsukune has underwent the human modification ritual, his body hasn't been "compatible" enough to use the blood's full potential.
Well, the reason I said he was a vampire physically and a killing machine mentally, was to describe him as a "Ghoul", because its like you said he isn't one, when I call Tsukune a Ghoul, I mean it in a metaphorical way, even Ura-Moka notes that Tsukune isn't one, but is the equivalent to one, when he goes berserk.

I agree, now that Tsukune has underwent the Human Modification Ritual, he will be able to use the Shinso blood and power to its full potential. What we do know is that Tsukune has his modified-human form and his vampire form, which is now more stable when he transforms into a vampire albeit not a pure blood, since he doesn't share vampiric weaknesses and is also able to stay in that form for extended periods of time, in chapter 52, thats probably the only time Tsukune has stayed in that form the longest, which is a big improvement, because hes going to need that form when he finally faces Akua.
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Old 2012-04-19, 23:27   Link #22224
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Technically speaking I doubt it's the end of Tsukune's problems with his Shinso vampire powers, after all it would be pretty boring if Tsukune wouldn't undergo any developments anymore.

Although I said that, I don't think that Tsukune's problems are going to be the same as earlier, since the issue of the "stability" of Tsukune's powers has already been resolved by him undergoing the human modification ritual - so the most likely issues that would need to be somehow resolved in the future arcs are going to be related with the corruptive effects of Tsukune's Shinso blood and the fact that his aura is so similar to Alucard, but I doubt that we will see Tsukune's powers going out of control anymore, at least not in the way they did, before Tsukune underwent the human modification ritual.

Still, even if I said that, I doubt we will see Tsukune undergoing any new developments for some time, since I believe that, after the current arc is over, it's time for Moka (especially the Inner one) to undergo some developments now that she, most likely, has been surpassed by Tsukune.
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Old 2012-04-20, 00:00   Link #22225
kenjiharima
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Not sure if I've posted this before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLAChUGoFlI
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Old 2012-04-20, 14:22   Link #22226
Chris38
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Originally Posted by kwai4749 View Post
The mangaka has started on a sequel
Honestly, what makes you think that... After all we are at an highly inappropriate moment for Ikeda to actually start a sequel, not to mention I don't even see a reason why Ikeda would need to do a sequel, if he can complete this manga under the current title.
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Old 2012-04-20, 15:00   Link #22227
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Honestly, what makes you think that... After all we are at an highly inappropriate moment for Ikeda to actually start a sequel, not to mention I don't even see a reason why Ikeda would need to do a sequel, if he can complete this manga under the current title.
I think he was referring to the vocaloid video that kenjiharima posted, but if not than I agree, there would be no reason to start a sequel for Rosario + Vampire.
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Old 2012-04-21, 05:05   Link #22228
Alhazad2003
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Technically speaking I doubt it's the end of Tsukune's problems with his Shinso vampire powers, after all it would be pretty boring if Tsukune wouldn't undergo any developments anymore.

Although I said that, I don't think that Tsukune's problems are going to be the same as earlier, since the issue of the "stability" of Tsukune's powers has already been resolved by him undergoing the human modification ritual - so the most likely issues that would need to be somehow resolved in the future arcs are going to be related with the corruptive effects of Tsukune's Shinso blood and the fact that his aura is so similar to Alucard, but I doubt that we will see Tsukune's powers going out of control anymore, at least not in the way they did, before Tsukune underwent the human modification ritual.

Still, even if I said that, I doubt we will see Tsukune undergoing any new developments for some time, since I believe that, after the current arc is over, it's time for Moka (especially the Inner one) to undergo some developments now that she, most likely, has been surpassed by Tsukune.
No doubt, he's not a pureblood like Akasha, so he's gonna have more than his share of troubles with his newfound power. Makes me wonder if Alucard himself was pureblood, considering what eventually happened to him. Though hopefully the girls stay close to him so he doesn't succumb to the darkness within him.

And yes, it's time Ura-chan came back into the limelight. She's gonna have a lot to think about: Tsukune's new prowess, which would've lead to the downfall of Akuha, and what might happen if her brethren find out. Your theory about Tsukune and Moka being exiled and vilified by the Japanese vampire nation is starting to sound a lot more plausible now. And should Akasha return, will she welcome Tsukune or try to strike him down like Fuhai did back in Hong Kong? Very interesting questions for the next arc, can't wait to find out the answer.
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Old 2012-04-21, 06:15   Link #22229
Merilyn Mensola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Not sure if I've posted this before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLAChUGoFlI

1:13...why is only Tsukune that is naked?!is unfair!!lol

Watching it..is really sad..that the anime ended like this...

Damn..i want to see Moka reaction, when she see the "New Tsukune"

Hope that in the next chapter, Tsukune make his appearance in Moka stage...
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Old 2012-04-21, 07:33   Link #22230
GrimJack
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so...

I read somewhere, can't remember exactly, that the current mangaka in Jump Square are doing bonus chapters in Jump Square 19.

Yagi-sensei the mangaka of Claymore released his this month does anyone know whether Ikeda-sensei is drawing one and when it will appear??
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Old 2012-04-21, 07:50   Link #22231
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merilyn Mensola View Post

Damn..i want to see Moka reaction, when she see the "New Tsukune"

Hope that in the next chapter, Tsukune make his appearance in Moka stage...
I think that Tsukune's appearing where Moka is currently located has a very huge chance of occurring in the next chapter, since I doubt that Kurumu and Mizore, even with the training they underwent during the one month time skip, can last for a long time, against a serious Akua.

Unfortunately it will most likely occur near the end of the next chapter, so I doubt that we will see much of Moka's reaction to the "new" Tsukune.

@Alhazad2003

On the matter of Akasha's reaction to Tsukune, well it most likely depends on the circumstances surrounding their meeting, but considering her personality, I doubt that she will try to strike Tsukune down, without asking him a few questions first, and of course, assuming that Tsukune would be in a condition to answer them, I doubt that Akasha would try to harm Tsukune, once she learns that he is capable of removing Moka's Rosario.

Not to mention (and this is only a hypothesis, since I haven't found any evidence of this in the manga), I believe it's somehow possible for other Shinso vampires to sense who was the "original" owner of the blood in their follow kinsmen - at the very least I think that they are able to "instinctively" sense that the Shinso blood aura is similar to their own - so if Akasha would meet Tsukune, I believe that she would be able to sense that he has a part of her own Shinso blood - and this process is, in my opinion refereed as "Shinso blood synchronization" in the manga, but like I said this is only mine speculation, since we haven't got a detailed explanation of this topic yet.

Last edited by Chris38; 2012-04-21 at 09:21.
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Old 2012-04-21, 09:42   Link #22232
Tempest35
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Well, Ikeda is certainly being forced to think the Shinso blood thing through on this - we won't accept some half-assed explanation!

In regards to Akasha, I really want to know where SHE came from. She's obviously from Europe so Moka's English could be of the British type - which for some reason, I'd REALLY want to hear Moka with a deep voice tinged with a British accent... 0.o Something about that... :nosebleed:

Anyway...While Akasha could indeed sense the Shinso blood, I don't know if it would Synchronize just from that... Well, like you said, we don't know about the blood synchronization to speak of it definitely.

And the Shinso blood really is just a higher density blood in terms of a vampire's power. Pretty much high octane jet fuel instead of regular unleaded.... I wonder if anyone altered my lil posting on it on the R+V Wiki...
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Old 2012-04-21, 10:57   Link #22233
Shinso Tsukune
Moka X Tsukune
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I doubt Akasha will harm Tsukune in any way, She'll welcome him with open arms after finding out who he is and the story behind him, Akasha is the kindess person in the series, for her to actually go as far as to harm Tsukune would be so out of her character, not to mention the fact he is her future son-in-law and that it would leave both Mokas heartbroken and I seriously doubt she'll do anything to to make her daughter unhappy.
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:07   Link #22234
Chris38
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@Tempest

Well, aside from the topic of the Shinso blood, another matter that requires a proper explanation, which you partially brought up, is Akasha's and Alucard's past.

After all, considering the fact that it has been implied that Tsukune might be becoming a similar type of being as Alucard - at the same time means that like Tsukune, Alucard might also not have been born as a vampire.

Regarding the actual topic of the Shinso blood, while I agree that, like you said it might be just a more potent version of the blood of an regular vampire, but it honestly can be anything, since the author hasn't properly defined the limits and abilities a Shinso vampire has.

At the moment the only thing that we certainly know about the Shinso blood, is the unique way in which you can obtain it.
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:42   Link #22235
Tempest35
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If I remember correctly, it was Akuha that said that Alucard was originally a Shuzen vampire servant or something close to that. I might have to look that up (it was during the flashback chapters, I believe).

And in all honesty, I do suspect Akuha's view on the passing on of Shinso blood. I mean, if ALL the blood got transfered to the individual, as Akuha thinks it is, then Akasha should have been exponentially weaker than what she was displaying in her short-lived battle against Alucard... I am scared to think of Akasha if that was indeed just her base power without the Shinso blood within her...

I think that Akuha was thinking of a fight between vampires and one is dead or dying and the other binge drinks their blood to obtain their power(s). In that senario, yes, her wording on the matter holds true. But apparently, if both are alive and the blood is given, a measure of the power is distributed to the receiver. I assume that Akasha got her blood later on in life, later than Moka did becuase of the unique 'legendary' characteristics that she displays (red eyes and white hair). Although, Ikeda-sensei hasn't brought that up in a long time so it's probably a moot point at this point in time.

And also, Moka clearly did not transfer all her Shinso blood to Tsukune for the sheer fact that the seal is still reacting to Alucard's presence. If she did not have any of the Shinso blood, then the seal would be useless for the most part, right?

Ugh,...does the 'red eyes, white hair' have any significance any more, Ikeda-sensei!? I must know more about our Moka-sama~!!!
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Old 2012-04-21, 13:21   Link #22236
Chris38
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@Tempest

Regarding the Shinso blood transfer, I agree with you that Akasha, as well as Moka hadn't fully lost their Shinso blood once they passed it to someone else.

On the matter of Inner Moka's appearance, I don't think that her red eyes are that significant, since we had seen other (ordinary) vampires have then, like for example Kokoa or Akua, both of which don't have any drop of Shinso blood in their veins.

On the other topic you mentioned, I think that Inner Moka's white hair (and Tsukune's hair becoming lighter, when he transforms into his "vampire form"), might be a result of them becoming more affected by the Shinso blood that was injected into them, then a usual case (like Akasha for example), in result obtaining Shinso powers that are, in strength, closer to the strength of the "original" Shinso vampire - meaning that both Moka and Tsukune might be a little stronger then an "ordinary case" of someone obtaining a Shinso vampires blood.

As for the reason why they haven't revealed that strength, well both Moka and Tsukune are quite young, at the very least considering how long vampires live in this manga, they can be basically considered as children, and it has already been mentioned somewhere that vampires grow stronger, when they get "older".

The reason why I think that Moka's "white hair" might be related with her Shinso powers, is the fact that even that part of her appearance has been "sealed" within the Rosario - and as you probably know Tempest the main purpose of the Rosario that Moka wears is to seal anything that is related with her Shinso blood.

Furthermore, I think that you should agree that the circumstances surrounding the time when Moka (and Tsukune) have obtained their Shinso blood have been far from ordinary, since Moka received her Shinso blood, while she was still an infant, while Tsukune received his Shinso blood when he was still an ordinary human, so it should be pretty obvious that the Shinso blood within them is, well developing in a different way then usual - after all, both Moka and Tsukune are the only characters (among the vampire race) in the R+V series, that have such a major appearance change when they start using the powers of their Shinso blood, and I'm quite certain that their is a reason why something like that occurs.
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Old 2012-04-21, 14:03   Link #22237
Shinso Tsukune
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Related topic, with Alucard's visage appearing behind Tsukune, I'm beginning to wonder if Alucard is starting to react more to Tsukune rather than Moka, afterall he undid the first seal of the Holy Lock which allowed a fraction of the Shinso power to be released and he has yet to reseal it. So with some of the Shinso power being released from Tsukune, do yall think Alucard is reacting more to him?

Personally I think Alucard really is reacting to Tsukune.
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Old 2012-04-21, 14:18   Link #22238
Tempest35
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This is just me talking so I hope no one takes it the wrong way.

For Moka, the difference of what the Shinso blood is capable of is evident based on just her personality and appearance alone. It's pretty safe to say that Outer Moka is basically Moka without Shinso blood in her - basically a carbon copy of Akasha, appearance-wise. My view on the 'red eyes, white hair' was that it is just a by-product of all that potent Shinso blood being transfused into her from an infant. Their eyes may be indicative of their power but that might be more of a cosmetic thing that Ikeda-sensei does...

In regards to Personality... We've spent nearly the entire manga learning just how different Inner and Outer Moka were so the Shinso does alter personality as well. We can also clearly see this in Tsukune's case when he fought Kyuou just now. The bloodlust is tremendous and there is a real fear that it may be too much for Tsukune's human consciousness to fully hold back.

Moka can apparently hold back the Shinso's inherent bloodlust due to her time with her Mother, who tempered Moka's character superbly. Due to her being accustomed to it for so long, controlling it is as nothing to her. Of course, it has leaked at least once that we've seen (the first battle against Kuyou when she actually threatened his life). It's the first time she's actually threatened the life of someone and we can all see that she meant every word.

@ Shinso Tsukune

I don't know about him reacting just yet - Tsukune and Alucard's blood hasn't been snychronized yet, although due to his blood being donated from Moka, whom he IS snychronized with, it shouldn't take much for it to occur.
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Old 2012-04-21, 14:34   Link #22239
Chris38
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@Tempest

Tsukune being taken over by his bloodlust, well to me, it would be equal to Tsukune becoming the same as Alucard with no way for him to regain his human consciousness, in other words a bad end.

After Ikeda spent so much time on developing Tsukune's character and powers, I really doubt he's going to give us an ending like that.

In other words, I believe that in the end Tsukune will be able to control his bloodlust like Inner Moka does, naturally it will most likely take him a lot more time then Moka to achieve that, but I have no doubt that in the end, Tsukune will manage to have a similar level of control over his Shinso blood as Inner Moka - the question, which most likely, won't be answered anytime soon is, what Tsukune still needs to do, to achieve that

And no one blames you for talking, after all this what forums are for, in my opinion at least
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Old 2012-04-21, 21:11   Link #22240
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if any of you could give me a link to were you read the manga or the LN, it would be most appreciated
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