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Old 2013-09-06, 18:07   Link #24481
XFire
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Originally Posted by Mach56gs View Post
Now you're doing what I did.

Mizore was just kissed.... Did you not see the scene? He molested her afterwards.

Yes, they get scattered, and for months they aren't attacked, allowing them a wonderful time to practice and prepare for the upcoming tournament and blah blah blah.

If you're a villan in RV you'd track them down and kill them one by one. But no, in Negima the bad guys just twittle their thumbs. Oh, right because they want to save everyone.

And that's the main difference. In RV Alucard just wants to kill everyone. In Negima, every bad guy has good intentions and pure hearts and other baloney. They don't even classify as bad people, just misled and confused. It's like fairy tale, where every bad guy group has at least one person who's just "misled" and "pure-in-the-core". It's childish and improbable, and occurs chiefly in lighthearted manga. It's not something that's bad, but you see it ALL THE TIME.

@chris.

Much like ruby's master, Alucard is aware of this weakness, but he may be unable to do anything about it.
Really? People doing things because they honestly believe them to be right is less realistic than doing things because they're EVIL (tm)? Maybe you should go study world history for a bit.

He groped her, yes. Which is significantly less than what most of the girls have done to Tsukune, incidentally.

And in case you didn't notice, in Rosa Vamp the villains had all of the good guys completely cornered and defenseless and walked away because they weren't a threat. When said people included a Dark King. Fairy Tale has done nothing to hunt them down despite being repeatedly disrupted by them, and basically allowed them to waltz onto their main base unmolested.

And the people in Negima weren't attacked because Fate screwed up. He didn't see Negi as a threat, and by the time he started to become one, Rakan was with him. After that Fate had to wait till he could use the Code of the Lifemaker to confront him.
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Old 2013-09-06, 18:13   Link #24482
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stop these comparisons already... I didn't see Negima and I am not even motivated to watch/read it, so it is not like I really care for spoilers, but this really shouldn't turn into a "comparison thread"...
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Old 2013-09-06, 18:17   Link #24483
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stop these comparisons already... I didn't see Negima and I am not even motivated to watch/read it, so it is not like I really care for spoilers, but this really shouldn't turn into a "comparison thread"...
Eh, fine. We were running in circles anyway.
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Old 2013-09-06, 23:40   Link #24484
Chris38
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@Chris38
I don't know what else would be required for Tsukune to use his shinso/bat/superghoul/whateveryouwannacallit form. It was teased once during his initial training and hinted at during his last fight. Not that much actual development and time put in this very device, just a lot of hype it seems.

Extreme emotions to unleash the protagonist's full potential - That is a classic trope. Now there can be no stronger emotional catalyst for Tsukune than the alleged death of Moka, the most important person in his life. So what will Ikeda use in a theoretical second arc against Alucard as emotional impetus when he already played his best card?
I'm not denying the possibility of Tsukune doing something like that.

I'm just saying that it will mostly have a negative effect on his transformation, rather then a positive one, and this development won't help him in gaining control, over his powers.

Since, generally speaking Tsukune's emotions / desires have had a negative influence on the state of his transformation, rather then the opposite.

After all:

- In the first season Tsukune's desire to gain the power to protect Moka have caused him to transform into his berserk (Ghoul) state for the first time, and if Mikogami and Ruby hadn't appeared on the scene, he would have been killed.

- During the confrontation against Hokuto, Tsukune's desire to save the kidnapped Moka have caused him to reach the limit of power that he was capable of controlling, and if Inner Moka hadn't appeared at that time, he would have transformed into his berserk state.

- During the doppelganger incident, in the second season Tsukune's desire to protect Moka have reawakened his powers, and due to the fact that he hasn't been using them for a quite long period of time, they started to go out of control, requiring Ruby's and Yukari's aid to suppress them.

- During Tohou Fuhai's ritual the emotions and desire to save Moka have unleashed Tsukune's changed berserk form, requiring Kurumu's aid to prevent Tsukune from being killed by Tohou Fuhai.

- Finally during the current arc ... Tsukune's desire to save Moka from the Black Parade monster's have worsened the negative symptoms of using his powers in the presence of Alucard, which is something that hasn't been fully resolved yet.

Of course there had been a few moments where Tsukune's emotions / desires have had a positive effect on his transformation, but generally speaking, there have been a lot more situations where it caused Tsukune's situation to get worse ... especially when Moka has been the person who generated this particular emotion / desire.

Last edited by Chris38; 2013-09-07 at 02:01.
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Old 2013-09-07, 04:34   Link #24485
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I just don't see the need for him to control this form plot-wise if it gets the job of kiling Alucard done. Afterwards there are enough possibilities that can pull him back just like Kurumu did before. Just because a situation seems dire doesn't mean Ikeda cannot solve it in a very simple way or use a similar device he used earlier and change it a little. Tsukune getting into an uncontrolable ghoul state again might be in fact an opportunity for Ikeda to add some temporary drama, not a sign of necessity for Tsukune to control it.

Again, I think there's a lot of hype going around Tsukune's shinso state from the training arc that may not be justified.
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Old 2013-09-07, 07:50   Link #24486
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Don't know why you would think that would solve anything. He would just end up a liability. Alucard is a shinso with countless monsters augmenting his strength; the only area they even have an advantage in is that they aren't mindless, and you want him to throw that away and somehow kick Alucard's ass pretty much by himself? Give me a break.

Plus Tsukune can't afford to keep going berserk. His lock's durability isn't infinite, and its almost broken as is. Alucard's presence isn't helping any.
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Old 2013-09-07, 07:58   Link #24487
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if moka manages to control her power and use them on tsukune then he should be able to go all out . It is the only way they stand a chance, with a power up of both of them.
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Old 2013-09-07, 10:35   Link #24488
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There is probably a single vital point on Alucard that they need to hit. Like the Death Star.
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Old 2013-09-07, 13:13   Link #24489
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There is probably a single vital point on Alucard that they need to hit. Like the Death Star.
His heart
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Old 2013-09-07, 14:02   Link #24490
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There is probably a single vital point on Alucard that they need to hit. Like the Death Star.
I doubt there is anything so convenient. Akasha pretty much pulped the the thing and it just regenerated no problem.
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Old 2013-09-07, 14:55   Link #24491
Waven
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There is probably a single vital point on Alucard that they need to hit. Like the Death Star.
You mean his exhaust vent?
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Old 2013-09-07, 17:00   Link #24492
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You mean his exhaust vent?
Well, he's technically a living (un-living?) creature, so his exhaust port would be his..... Oh dear.
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Old 2013-09-07, 17:37   Link #24493
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
I doubt there is anything so convenient. Akasha pretty much pulped the the thing and it just regenerated no problem.
This is not true, according to Akasha, you need to thoroughly destroy parts of Alucard's body so that it can't regenerate, she told Akua this information in Moka's memories.
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Old 2013-09-07, 22:54   Link #24494
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This is not true, according to Akasha, you need to thoroughly destroy parts of Alucard's body so that it can't regenerate, she told Akua this information in Moka's memories.
Alucard's body parts ... like his tentacles can be destroyed by Akasha, but his main body ... which is what @bludvein was talking about can't, since Akasha, on her own, isn't powerful enough to throughly destroy it ... which, makes @bludvein's statement in his post correct.
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Old 2013-09-08, 01:51   Link #24495
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Are there any clues or even proof as to why Tsukune definitely needs another training arc and not go all out right away which make it so "undeniable" for Alucard to not get defeated in the current arc? What exactly makes your guess better than others`? Isn't it more like you don't want Alucard to get finished this arc as much as some people want the arc to end with his death?
Considering he'd be fighting against a Godzilla-sized genocidal maniac with nigh invincible strength and regenerative capabilities, do you really think he could possibly handle it alone? The Three Dark Lords couldn't stop him way back when, what makes you think Tsukune can possibly stop him now? He still hasn't regained his human form, he's nowhere near mastering his powers, so how can he hope to overcome the Lord of Darkness in this arc? Not to mention if Alucard is destroyed, the story is basically over. What'll the group do then? That's why I'm saying it's far from over, there's still another school year to go through. Maybe during then they'll find the strength they need to stop Alucard, but not now. And if you're expecting them to do it regardless, I fear you're going to be terribly disappointed. That's all.
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Old 2013-09-08, 04:18   Link #24496
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Considering he'd be fighting against a Godzilla-sized genocidal maniac with nigh invincible strength and regenerative capabilities, do you really think he could possibly handle it alone? The Three Dark Lords couldn't stop him way back when, what makes you think Tsukune can possibly stop him now? He still hasn't regained his human form, he's nowhere near mastering his powers, so how can he hope to overcome the Lord of Darkness in this arc? Not to mention if Alucard is destroyed, the story is basically over. What'll the group do then? That's why I'm saying it's far from over, there's still another school year to go through. Maybe during then they'll find the strength they need to stop Alucard, but not now. And if you're expecting them to do it regardless, I fear you're going to be terribly disappointed. That's all.
Ikeda can always pull something out of his hat like a shinso blood/human hybrid (+modified body by Touhou Fuhai) might be stronger even than the most powerful pure shinso. Not saying this is what will happen, just a possibility.

And again, why exactly would he need to control this power plot-wise? Maybe he will never be able to control it, it may turn out to be as much of a battle asset as it is a danger to himself and the allies around him. For the plot, all he needs is to unleash his full potential (here: through emotions) and go on a rampage, finish Alucard and then go on to attack allies/civilians to create some drama until something/someone barely manages to pull him back. This ofc is just speculation as well but it's entirely feasible.

As to whether the series would end with the death of Alucard, I already presented a possible follow-up arc in the form of a then incited human-ayashi conflict, which would be much more character-driven than just fighting against a strong foe.

I really don't get why some of you desperately cling to the alleged necessity for Tsukune to go all out shounen SSJ1-2-3 mode as if it was the undeniable truth.
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Old 2013-09-08, 04:50   Link #24497
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Ikeda can always pull something out of his hat like a shinso blood/human hybrid (+modified body by Touhou Fuhai) might be stronger even than the most powerful pure shinso. Not saying this is what will happen, just a possibility.

And again, why exactly would he need to control this power plot-wise? Maybe he will never be able to control it, it may turn out to be as much of a battle asset as it is a danger to himself and the allies around him. For the plot, all he needs is to unleash his full potential (here: through emotions) and go on a rampage, finish Alucard and then go on to attack allies/civilians to create some drama until something/someone barely manages to pull him back. This ofc is just speculation as well but it's entirely feasible.

As to whether the series would end with the death of Alucard, I already presented a possible follow-up arc in the form of a then incited human-ayashi conflict, which would be much more character-driven than just fighting against a strong foe.

I really don't get why some of you desperately cling to the alleged necessity for Tsukune to go all out shounen SSJ1-2-3 mode as if it was the undeniable truth.
What your describing is pretty much what Alucard already is. If Tsukune can't control his power and just rampages around, how is he better? Not to mention Alucard has way more raw power than Tsukune should ever have. Even if Tsukune was stronger than a "pure" shinso (which I doubt), Alucard is a shinso + thousands of monsters. He can't win that kind of fight even if he had access to his full power next chapter.

Even more relevantly, you aren't listening. Tsukune can't afford to go berserk any more. There would be no return to sanity unless he can control it. His lock is about busted already. So if you want a plot reason there is that and more.
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Old 2013-09-08, 06:22   Link #24498
Waven
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^
Oh my, you're really swallowing everything an author throws at you without question. Tsukune hase been in dire situations with his condition before; Moka almost had to kill him when he turned into a ghoul in S1 but abra kadabra deus ex Mikogami appears and transforms him back to normal. What prevents Ikeda from doing something similar? He can always come up with something, even if it might not be too crafty.

The only reason why a rampaging Tsukune would be better than Alucard from a reader's perspective is simply that the former doesn't have any ill intent and can possibly be stopped with no or minumum violence.

And where do you guys get these power levels from to begin with? Yes, Alucard is freaking strong but please give me a source that states that he is x times stronger than Tsukune's berserk form. Was there someone with a scouter who analyzed it to be over 9000 that I missed? My point is, it's all just asssumptions. Mine as well as yours,
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Old 2013-09-08, 06:34   Link #24499
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Even if Alucard is beaten its not like he wouldn't reappear. He could have clearly set up back up plans for him to reappear in the form of more clone bodys or in a new body that wouldn't be tied down to his main body. Like them eggs. Could be his children that he made so if he dies he could be incarnated in one of them. Or his children could have the same plans as their father and would want to destory the world them selfs but one of them will fall for Tsukune and betreay them thus ensuring a fights to come.
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Old 2013-09-08, 06:47   Link #24500
bludvein
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
^
Oh my, you're really swallowing everything an author throws at you without question. Tsukune hase been in dire situations with his condition before; Moka almost had to kill him when he turned into a ghoul in S1 but abra kadabra deus ex Mikogami appears and transforms him back to normal. What prevents Ikeda from doing something similar? He can always come up with something, even if it might not be too crafty.

The only reason why a rampaging Tsukune would be better than Alucard from a reader's perspective is simply that the former doesn't have any ill intent and can possibly be stopped with no or minumum violence.

And where do you guys get these power levels from to begin with? Yes, Alucard is freaking strong but please give me a source that states that he is x times stronger than Tsukune's berserk form. Was there someone with a scouter who analyzed it to be over 9000 that I missed? My point is, it's all just asssumptions. Mine as well as yours,
It has been repeatedly stressed that breaking the lock would be game over for Tsukune, and I don't have any reason to think the author would make that go away with a wave of deus ex machina.

...and no, there aren't any set power levels, just common sense. On one hand we have an uber skyscraper-sized monster with 1000s of monsters absorbed adding to its power, and on the other we have a maybe-sorta shinso in the form of Tsukune. No points for guessing who would win.

Why you would think Tsukune would win alone when all 3 of the dark lords working together couldn't does not make any sense, and they were facing a weaker version!

Not to mention pretty much the entire second season has had a major focus on Tsukune getting his power under control, and you think this going to get ignored...why?
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